From the FAL Files: The Legend of Ol' Dirty

[Nightcrawler]

Check THIS out, guys. 4,000 (!!) round torture test of a postban FAL type rifle. STG-58 kit on an Imbel receiver.

Recoil in horror at the pictures!

I don't know that I'd do this to my rifle, but it's fascinating to watch. The FAL is one tough beast!

 

[Matthew748]

It always amazes me when people do torture tests with their personal rifles. I just cannot bring myself to do stuff like that to something that I shelled out a fair chunk of money to buy. I am glad that they do it and post the results for others to read. Now please excuse me while I go over my DSA rifle with a toothbrush and a can of Break-Free.

 

[Sewerman]

out standing! i assume it still fires like a champ? iv always loved the FAL im buying one next week!

 

[Ian Sean]

Thats an old post...Ol' Dirty is I believe up to 10,000 rounds now...

YES 10,000!

 

[MatthewVanitas]

Presumably some of these folks have cash to spare...

For more chilling examples, check out knife forums. Certain posters, presumably the independently wealthy, tend to post reviews like:

"So I recently bought a $450 J.B. Goodsmith folder made of pure unobtanium with ivory scales. I tested blade strength by thrusting it 4" into a solid oak Louis XIV table and applying pressure via a pneumatic jack. At approximately 785 ft-lbs of pressure, the blade separated from the lock. This is on par with axis-lock knives costing twice that amount, so I'm a satisfied customer, and will certainly order another next week..."

But I am impressed by the FAL test. Look at it this way too: he might be risking damage to a $1K rifle, but he's also dumped about $1.5K worth of ammo through it during this test, so the original cost of the rifle kinda pales in that light...

 

[Carnitas]

At 10,000 it ought to be time to rebarrel.

 

[Trebor]

The cocking handle looks like a periscope in that third picture. It's like the rifle is gasping out, "air," "air!"

 

[Trebor]

Tortue tests like that make me feel better about not cleaning my guns every time I come back from the range. I'll never take it to that extreme, but when I've got two range trips scheduled in three days, what's the point of cleaning the guns inbetween? They'll run fine (except for some of the .22's) and it's more wear and tear to take them aprart for cleaning that extra time than to just let them be dirty for awhile.

Note that I never shoot corrosive ammo.

 

[DMK]

The FAL is a tough beast, but that's no excuse not to mantain it.

I'll tell ya what, if you don't clean the gas tube it can jam up pretty well.

I took my Imbel out this past weekend, fired a shot and the bolt wouldn't close on the second. The gas piston was jammed back. When unloaded the rifle and knocked the gas piston out, it turned out that carbon and rust had built up in the gas tube and was jamming the piston. It was easily fixed right there by brushing out the tube with a 45ACP bore brush with some CLP and I was able to put about 300 rounds through it that morning without another hiccup.

Obviously my fault for not cleaning the gas tube regularly. Don't listen to those that say the gas tube never needs cleaning. Mine went maybe 1000 rounds without cleaning the gas tube. Although it did surprise the heck out of me because it was the first jam I ever had with the rifle.

BTW, this was with a DSA chrome gas piston(one of my required U.S. parts) and an original Imbel gas tube. Maybe the clearances were tighter with that combination than the original gas pistol.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Look at it this way too: he might be risking damage to a $1K rifle, but he's also dumped about $1.5K worth of ammo through it during this test, so the original cost of the rifle kinda pales in that light...

A home-built FAL like Ol' Dirty will cost about half that much. Remember that a lot of these guys own more than a dozen FAL rifles; if I had that many duplicates, I might be tempted to see what one could do too...

Doubt you'll see anything like this on ARFcom, though.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

I only own one so I wasn't going to go to that extreme, but I sort of attempted something like that with my Romanian WASR. I decided to just not clean it and see how long it took it not to function due only to carbon build up--no throwing it in mud or whatever. I was through maybe 1000 rounds or so but noticed when I was putting a folding stock on it that it was beginning to show the slightest hint of rust creeping in and that did it for me. Powder residue I can take, rust I can't. So I cleaned it. If I ever get that Bulargian Arsenal, I might consider doing something more drastic with the WASR. But until then, I'll love it as if it were my child.

 

[jobu07]

Amazing rifles. I bought one today After sighting it in, albeit nothing to brag about, I was putting them into one ragged hole at 50 yards.

 

[444]

I hope this guy was doing some serious training with those 10,000 rounds: you would be pretty tuned up if you shoot that much with serious intent.

IMO, throwing the rifle in the water is cheating. That might wash away some of the fouling.

I have an STG58 kit built on a DSA receiver. I never cleaned it from the condition I received it in:really greasy+diry but I couldn't wait to try it. It just so happened that I received it on a Friday and we had a match the next morning, so I decided to give it a try. It malfunctioned to the point that I quit the match and went home. I tore it completely down to nothing and cleaned it and it runs OK now.

"Doubt you'll see anything like this on ARFcom, though."
I will give you credit, you never miss the opportunity to take the cheap shot. I don't know if they ever did that or not. Your original post said 4000 rounds. When I took Gunsite's Basic Carbine class, two police officers brought their issued M16s and never cleaned them throughout the class which was over 2000 rounds in a week. Never had the slightest problem. You can keep an AR15 going pretty much forever if you lube the bolt. If you shoot it enough that it malfunctions, a couple drops of lube on the bolt and it is good to go.

I didn't read the original thread, but one problem with these home "torture tests" is that you don't really know what was done. When I read something like 10,000 round tortue test, I at first assume this means that someone sat down and fired 10,000 rounds. But almost always I find they did stuff like lubrication during the test. You can keep the rifle going for a long time if you regularly lube it. This of course takes nothing away from the test, but is far different than just firing a rifle until it fails with absolutely no maintainance. Again, I didn't read the thread on FAL-Files but what is this guy trying to prove ? Is he saying that this rifle ran without malfunction in 10,000 + rounds ? What is the goal and the criteria for the test ?

I like my STG58.
My interest in one of those real short DSA carbines has been recently rekindled after that short .308 thread.

 

[ny32182]

444's input is right on as usual, IMO.

I remember an Arfcom test where they fired over 6,000 rounds without cleaning, but that is neither here nor there. This thread isn't about the AR vs THE WORLD; "the world" being the FAL in this case.

I love my SA-58 as much as the next guy; it is a fantastic rifle, but it took a polishing of the rails to make it reliable. Those are just the facts. Those Ol' Dirty pictures, which have been around for quite a while, really don't do much for me. I'd expect any rifle to run well with those levels of fouling, which honestly just don't look like that much to me. Maybe that pic was taken after the puddle dunk.

 

[JohnKSa]

ttbadboy,

Check out the thread in the link in the first post of this thread. About halfway down the first page you'll find a link to an article where David Fortier put 10K rounds through an SA-58.

 

[Nightcrawler]

I will give you credit, you never miss the opportunity to take the cheap shot

And YOU used to have a sense of humor.

I was making a joke. I debated whether to even say it; I knew SOMEbody would get offended.

I don't understand. If you have a FAL that jams a lot, is a piece of junk, is unergnomic, you hate it, and think the design is flawed, even, and then post about it here, I won't get offended like that. I mean, I didn't design or build the thing. As such, I don't get mad if somebody hates a rifle I like.

I don't get mad if somebody doesn't like my favorite movie, and says it sucks, and that it was stupid, either.

I swear, the easiest way to get people up in arms on a gun board is to crack wise about the AR-15, Glock series, or 1911s.

So can we all relax, please?

 

[444]

And YOU used to have a sense of humor.

When ?

 

[DMK]

I didn't read the original thread, but one problem with these home "torture tests" is that you don't really know what was done. When I read something like 10,000 round tortue test, I at first assume this means that someone sat down and fired 10,000 rounds. But almost always I find they did stuff like lubrication during the test.

He has lubed it periodically. I don't think it was ever his intent to perform any kind of serious test. If you read his posts on "The Files", it really just started because he hates cleaning guns. He was pretty much just goofing around to see how long he could go without cleaning and then when he started posting about it, it became more of a pride challenge to keep it up.

It's his gun...

 

[Dionysusigma]

It somehow reminds me of something... hmm...

Ah, yes! The Titanic, as it is today! In more ways than one, I might add...

If a FAL can do this, I wonder what a PTR-91/ M1A/ AR-15/ etc. might be able to do. Any volunteers?

 

[444]

I finally read the thread. I still am unsure what this is supposed to accomplish. I realize that this guy didn't set out to prove anything. But obviously a lot of people seem to think it is quite an accomplishment since a thread (two, at least) were started about it. The only thing that is really proven by something like this is that if someone else doesn't want to clean their guns, they will continue to run if you put oil on them. IMO, this doesn't have any relavance to the real world. Very few, if any soldiers for example will fire their weapons for 10,000 rounds without cleaning them, so knowing they would work if they did is an answer in search of a problem. Now if the guy had simulated blowing sand, or maybe he low crawled across a beach or something like that, or he drove off road in the desert in an open cab truck with his weapon in a rack, it might have some connection to the real world. I don't think powder fouling causing malfunctions is a real big concern to very many people.
Not that I have any knowledge of combat operations of any kind, but I did read about a private contractor in Iraq who was involved in a firefight along with a group of US Marines on a roof top and this contractor ended up firing 17 magazines as the firefight went on all day or all night or for a very long period of time. That would be a little over 500 rounds depending on if he was loading 28 or 30 rounds in the mag. That is a heck of a lot of shooting and I don't think very many soldiers/security/SHTF civilians etc will ever be carrying that much ammo: even if they needed it.

 

[jobu07]

I believe there is a video floating around of a gentleman in a sandy environment who runs a case through his M-16 over the course of about 15 minutes.
After every 4 or 5 mags he'd throw it into a sandy muddy pool, let it cool off, then hold it into the air so you could see the sand/water pour out of the buffer tube.
For 1000 rounds, he had one failure to feed, and it was a Beta C mag he was using when it happend. No failures using 30 rounders. That was impressive, much like this was impressive.

 

[DMK]

...obviously a lot of people seem to think it is quite an accomplishment since a thread (two, at least) were started about it. The only thing that is really proven by something like this is that if someone else doesn't want to clean their guns, they will continue to run if you put oil on them. IMO, this doesn't have any relavance to the real world. ... Now if the guy had simulated blowing sand, or maybe he low crawled across a beach or something like that, or he drove off road in the desert in an open cab truck with his weapon in a rack, it might have some connection to the real world. I don't think powder fouling causing malfunctions is a real big concern...

Well said, 444.

This kind of reminds me of guys who brag about getting 200,000 miles out of a poorly maintained truck. Big deal. All it proves is you are too lazy to take care of your equipment. Imagine how much longer lived and better functioning it would have been if you did give it proper maintenance?

Besides, it's just a test sample of one. It still doesn't prove that the next truck or gun off the assembly line would be just as reliable in anywhere near the same conditions.

 

[The_Antibubba]

OK, maybe it doesn't prove anything, or it's an anomaly, or whatever. It's still interesting. Deep down, we all want to know how far we can push a firearm, and I'm quite happy that there are lots of people out there who are willing to risk life and limb so I can read about it.

I'm not prone to abuse my guns. Neglect is another story, and for me it's good to know how little besides an occasional cleaning has to be done.