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Full Auto Glock 18

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms and Accessories' started by Spencer R., May 16, 2011.

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  1. Spencer R.

    Spencer R. Member

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  2. Gunnerab

    Gunnerab Member

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    Looks fun
     
  3. GrimCPT

    GrimCPT Member

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    good video.
     
  4. LiquidTension

    LiquidTension Member

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    I've fire a bunch of FA stuff and have to say that a FA Glock 19 was the most fun.
     
  5. metalcutter

    metalcutter Member

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    glock 18 availabilty and $$?

    I have been looking around and have discovered that the m18 seems to be unavailable unless one happens to be a police firearms instructor.
    Do I have that about right? How many transferable m18s are there?
    Metalcutter.
     
  6. Sam Cade

    Sam Cade Member

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    A grand total of NONE.
     
  7. hirundo82

    hirundo82 Member

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    I think there are a few transferable Glock MGs, but I think most are conversions rather than G18's. Glocks were first imported to the US in 1986, so there was a very short time period for any to be registered before the MG registry was closed. I'm not even sure when the Glock 18 was introduced--they may all be post-'86.
     
  8. Gunnerab

    Gunnerab Member

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    If you have a class 2 07 or class 3 ffl you can get a brand new glock 18 with a demo letter or as a dealer sample for about 500-700$ plus any fees you may need to pay to keep it legal. Yes they are very affordable. A conversion would require the same ffl and demo letter but could be legally owned with out the ffl as long as its not installed and the conversion peice is not painted. A conversion runs around 85$ for a full auto only one and 180-350$ for a select fire version. Most come not painted.
     
  9. metalcutter

    metalcutter Member

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    so if I become a properly registered federal agent of one sort or another, I can get one? Hmmm.
     
  10. metalcutter

    metalcutter Member

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    Please forgive my clumsiness, I'm new to this.
    How does one apply for a class 2 07 or a class 3 ffl?
    I am not interested in becoming a dealer. What is a demo letter? I can make whatever given the properly toleranced blueprint, given the aforementioned federal permission slip.
    Which license applies, and how long does it take to get one, and how much does it cost? Is that once or annually?
    I am becoming to believe that I can live without a GM18. Still would like to fire one.
    Metalcutter.
     
  11. RhinoDefense

    RhinoDefense Member

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    OK, let me get this out there. No you cannot own a Glock 18 or converted Glock fully automatic pistol in the US. Two exceptions: You are an FFL/SOT or a law enforcement agency. Those are the only two legal ways to get one in the US. Period. If you get an FFL/SOT so you can get a G18, you're in violation of federal law. FFL is a business license, not an "enhance your personal firearms collection" license.

    Here's the why:

    In 1934, the National Firearms Act restricted ownership of fully automatic weapons, among others. Basically a transfer tax and paperwork. In 1968, the Gun Control Act instituted the FFL system among other things also banned the ownership of imported machine guns imported after 1968. The 1986 Hughes Amendment (which didn't legally pass, but that's another topic) banned civilian ownership of machine guns of domestically made after 5/1/86. This created three types of fully automatic weapons.

    Fully transferable: Machine guns made (and registered) prior to 1986 and/or imported before 1968. These are civilian legal.

    Pre 86 Dealer Sample: Machine guns made prior to 1986 but imported after 1968. These are dealer only, do not require a demo letter, and are not civilian legal. A sole proprietorship SOT may transfer these to themselves at close of business, tax paid transfer, but be careful and do NOT get an SOT just to get pre-86 samples. You will be found out and jailed. The ATF doesn't <deleted> around with this stuff.

    Post 86 Dealer Sample: These are machine guns made after May 1, 1986. These are only available to dealers with a demo letter from a LE agency. They are not civilian legal.

    Now, where does the Glock 18 fit? The Glock pistol was introduced in the early 1980s. There were conversions done on G17s for R&D but these aren't legal since they, being made in the 1980s, would have been imported to the US after 1968 cutoff, so it's dealer only. The Glock 18 wasn't manufactured until 1987, so it's a post-86 machine gun and not civilian legal.

    I want to dispel some myths. There is no such thing as a civilian legal G18 in the US. There is no such thing as a fully transferable G18 in the US. There is not one single G18 in the NFA registry that is able to be legally transferred to a civilian in the US. I don't care what you read on the Internet, heard from a friend of a friend's cousin's boss that heard from a guy who knows a guy. There is no legal means of a civilian in the US personally owning a Glock 18 or any converted fully automatic Glock. Period.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2011
  12. hirundo82

    hirundo82 Member

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    These statements are mutually exclusive. FFLs are for the business of dealing in firearms only, and if the ATF suspects an FFL/SOT is in it only to enlarge their personal collection they will shut you down so fast your head will spin.

    Something I'm not completely clear on--if a SOT can keep pre-86 samples after they get out of the business, can the guns then be transferred to a non-FFL?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2011
  13. metalcutter

    metalcutter Member

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    no such thing: transferrable g M18

    Thanks for the comprehensive response. I remember the Hughes travesty; a voice vote as I recall, it's been a while. I'll read the surrounding threads to refresh. Welcome to the land of the free to do what's not been prohibited.
    I'll just have to stop by the Scottsdale Gun Club and see if they have any machine pistols to rent. Gotta scratch that itch.
    Metalcutter.
     
  14. RhinoDefense

    RhinoDefense Member

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    Hirundo82, I'm not sure. I think the ruling is they can only be transferred back to an SOT where they become SOT only again. You'd have to call the NFA branch and ask them.
     
  15. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    Supposedly there are a very few transferable Beretta 93R machine pistols out there if you REALLY want a machine pistol badly.
     
  16. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    Neat as a pistol but once you put a stock on them (a FA 34 in this case) the fun factor goes way up.


    [​IMG]
     
  17. armorerdave

    armorerdave Member

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    RhinoDefense stated:
    "The 1986 Hughes Amendment (which didn't legally pass, but that's another topic) banned civilian ownership of machine guns of domestically made after 5/1/86."

    I just wanted to clarify that the date is actually 5/19/86. Most people would think that 18 days isn't a big deal, unless you own a machine gun (or other NFA weapon affected by the law) that was registered during those 18 days, then it's a rather big deal :)
     
  18. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Member

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    I saw one for sale about a year ago. IIRC the seller wanted about $23,000. Spendy pistol!
     
  19. Dimis

    Dimis Member

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    ok im confused what does it being painted have to do with anything

    besides this wouldnt it be illegal just to own?
    isnt this basically like an auto sear so the part would be what gets registered not the gun?

    sorry i live in a non free state and never needed to look into anything full auto
    If only specific dealers can possess them as samples can I assume everyone thats showing them off here are dealers?
    and if so isnt showing these pieces off more or less abusing the FFL?
    seriously not a troll its a legit question from a poor guy in a state that wont let him have any fun and doesnt know the answer lol

    ETA:
    also how are people legally converting other glock models like the 19 or the 34 in the picture above?
     
  20. Bubbles

    Bubbles Member

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    A device that converts a Glock 19 to file full-auto (basically it becomes a Glock 18) IS a machine gun. They are cheap to manufacture and/or purchase if you have an FFL/SOT or by a government agency, but are not legal to own otherwise.

    We have one on Form 2. It is good for turning cartridges into brass very quickly.
     
  21. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    Isn't showing/demonstrating the point of a sample?
     
  22. Dimis

    Dimis Member

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    jmorris I guess so but i always understood it to be like having it for showing LEOs or something so just taking it to a range and making brass rainbows wasnt allowed lol

    again I just dont understand cause Im in a no fun state lol

    another question can a civilian rent a post 86 gun if the proper SOT/FFL holder has one to do so?
     
  23. RhinoDefense

    RhinoDefense Member

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    Armorerdave, sorry for the typo. The nine key on my keyboard sticks sometimes and won't register.
     
  24. Bubbles

    Bubbles Member

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    Demos to government and LE agencies are a legitimate reason for a dealer in NFA firearms to purchase a post-sample machine gun. A "demo letter" from the agency must be submitted with the Form 3. Also bear in mind that if the dealer already has a post-sample of that type in inventory, the demo must be done with that gun - in other words, the dealer can't buy a dozen Colt M16's for a dozen different LE agency demos.

    Yes, though the FFL/SOT has to stay with the gun (or you travel out of state to do it, like Knob Creek). We also rent them by the hour or day.
     
  25. Dimis

    Dimis Member

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    sweet thanks for the info guys
    im not too far from west virginia and knob creek is something id like to attend at some point now i have even more reason to go
     
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