Full length case sizing die for pistol brass

[Jake in TX]

To the OP. I saw your post last night and took a look at what I have. I've been reloading semi-auto pistol cartridges for over 40 years, but only in the last year have I had a .38/.357 revolver to load for. In fact I haven't shot more than 15 rounds of .357 Magnum through this Rossi revolver.

So I took several spent .357 Magnum cartridge cases out and tried to push them into the chambers of the revolver. They dragged, and I had to push them firmly to seat all of the way into the cylinder.

Just about all of my reloading equipment is Lee, including the .38/.357 die set. I put the sizing die into the press, and the shell holder, and sized one of the cartridge cases. It plunked in no problem. Also I verified it did this in all of the other chambers also.

I don't know what press, shell holder, shell plate, or revolver you are using. The Lee .38 Special / .357 Magnum sizing die is sold as a separate die, and there is also the option of an undersized die. Hope this helps.

Jake in TX

 

[jski]

This is interesting.

In this instance, going from Lyman to Lee is an upgrade.

 

[Walkalong]

Buy one and tell us how it does.

I have four .38 Spl/.357 sizer dies, none will size all the way to the rim, can't be done for the reasons given by posters.

Some do a better job of looking good where the sizing stops, simply by the way the contour is ground.

If the loads are hot and you get expansion near the rim some of it won't be returned to size.

Lee is a master advertiser.

 

[Ifishsum]

I 'fixed' some .45 colt brass with the same issue by pushing them up into the sizing die with the case on top of the shellholder rather than inside it - the decapping pin assembly was removed so I could then tap the cases back out with a dowel. Sized them enough extra that they would then chamber smoothly in my guns. Not something I would want to deal every time, but I've only had to do it once for that batch of brass. After firing my loads in my guns I am able to now resize them normally without issue. If it needed done every time I would be looking for another solution like grinding down a shellholder.

 

[jski]

Buy one and tell us how it does.

I have four .38 Spl/.357 sizer dies, none will size all the way to the rim, can't be done for the reasons given by posters.

Some do a better job of looking good where the sizing stops, simply by the way the contour is ground.

If the loads are hot and you get expansion near the rim some of it won't be returned to size.

Lee is a master advertiser.

So you’re dubious about Lee products? It would seem that such duplicity would be quickly revealed?

 

[sequins]

So you’re dubious about Lee products? It would seem that such duplicity would be quickly revealed?

I think he's saying that the physical realities of how dies work means the Lee advertising claim is just that, a claim.

The redding dual ring dies are no benefit either, so it's not like Lee is alone in advertising ambitiously.

Unless you have rimless brass and a push through die you just can't size flush with the rim, and you can't do a push through on a rimmed case.

 

[Walkalong]

So you’re dubious about Lee products?

lol, no, just their advertising. Lee dies work just fine and can load great ammo, which I have posted more than once.

 

[Walkalong]

Unless you have rimless brass and a push through die you just can't size flush with the rim, and you can't do a push through on a rimmed case.

Yep.

 

[Walkalong]

I have four .38 Spl/.357 sizer dies, none will size all the way to the rim, can't be done for the reasons given by posters.

Some do a better job of looking good where the sizing stops, simply by the way the contour is ground.

The part in bold is all Lee is claiming. They are not claiming that their die sizes all the way to the rim.

If you look carefully at the Lee picture, you can see the open part posters are talking about where the die doesn't size. The part in the shell holder, and the part in the contoured part of the carbide ring.

 

[Jim Watson]

Here is a picture of the rig I referred to in post 18.
Pushes a case all the way into the sizing die up to the rim and pushes it back out.
If you really care I will endeavor to keypunch or photograph the text.

 

[Steve C]

There is no need to resize the entire case and down right impossible with a rimmed case. Generally the base end of the case in the .357 and other magnum cartridges is more solid and thicker than the upper case wall. See the picture below of a .357 mag case that has 1/2 of its length cut-away. The full case doesn't need to be resized because the only the upper portion of the case is expanded when fired.

If you are having a bulging problem at the base, your die may have too much resistance against the case sidewall and may be forcing the brass to bulge outward where the case thickens. A little bit of lube will make sizing much easier with carbide dies and alleviate the resistance as the sizing die moves against the case wall resolving any bulging problem. I often use a small touch of Imperial die wax on every 10th of so case to make sizing much easier on thicker or work hardened brass.

 

[murf]

the 357 magnum case is special as it will bulge at the base mostly due to the higher pressures and the lack of support by the chamber. most cartridge cases will not do this because the thick web at the base doesn't expand when the loaded round is fired.

i like the "put the case on top of the shell holder" idea.

luck,

murf

 

[film495]

I'm no expert, but if you're brass will no longer fit in the chamber using any normal resizing die, you might consider that is is past useful life.

 

[jski]

the 357 magnum case is special as it will bulge at the base mostly due to the higher pressures and the lack of support by the chamber. most cartridge cases will not do this because the thick web at the base doesn't expand when the loaded round is fired.

i like the "put the case on top of the shell holder" idea.

luck,

murf

How’s it different from the 41 and 44 Magnum, let alone the 454 Casull?

 

[jski]

There is no need to resize the entire case and down right impossible with a rimmed case. Generally the base end of the case in the .357 and other magnum cartridges is more solid and thicker than the upper case wall. See the picture below of a .357 mag case that has 1/2 of its length cut-away. The full case doesn't need to be resized because the only the upper portion of the case is expanded when fired.

If you are having a bulging problem at the base, your die may have too much resistance against the case sidewall and may be forcing the brass to bulge outward where the case thickens. A little bit of lube will make sizing much easier with carbide dies and alleviate the resistance as the sizing die moves against the case wall resolving any bulging problem. I often use a small touch of Imperial die wax on every 10th of so case to make sizing much easier on thicker or work hardened brass.

View attachment 949891

That is a perfect example of a picture is worth a thousand words. But the picture from Riomouse911 and my cases appear to show the resizing stopping short of where you might reasonably expect it to.

 

[Ru4real]

I’ve “heard” that Lee’s dies are full length?

No, Lee dies are not special. Lee 38/357 sizing dies will produce sized cases exactly like the photo posted by Riomouse911.

However, Lee dies are inexpensive. Buy a sizer or set and grind the end of the sizing die some if you want to shorten the length of the bulge near the case head for cheap.

Short base dies are a thing for 223. For 357, I don’t think it’s a thing.

 

[Ru4real]

That is a perfect example of a picture is worth a thousand words. But the picture from Riomouse911 and my cases appear to show the resizing stopping short of where you might reasonably expect it to.

Here is a pic of the end of a 357/38 Lee sizing die with the de-capping pin removed. The smooth internal carbide sizing ring surface is about 1/2” long and then the inside expands into the body of the die. Grinding can reduce the length of the taper leading into sizing surface. If you get rid of all the taper, it will be tough to get an unsized case into the die.

In addition, you can grind the top of your shell holder some.

View attachment 950091

 

[murf]

How’s it different from the 41 and 44 Magnum, let alone the 454 Casull?

the only thing i can figure is that 357 magnum brass is thinner than most. just got out my casemaster and measured 357 mag, 44 mag and 45 colt; i got .010, .011 and .011 inches respectively.

that is ten percent thicker for the 44 and 45.

murf

 

[jski]

Here is a pic of the end of a 357/38 Lee sizing die with the de-capping pin removed. The smooth internal carbide sizing ring surface is about 1/2” long and then the inside expands into the body of the die. Grinding can reduce the length of the taper leading into sizing surface. If you get rid of all the taper, it will be tough to get an unsized case into the die.

In addition, you can grind the top of your shell holder some.

View attachment 950091

So that diagram from Lee is hokum ?

 

[Walkalong]

No, it's a good representation of the die and shell holder if you look closely, you're misreading the advertising. I covered that earlier.

 

[cfullgraf]

If you are having a bulging problem at the base, your die may have too much resistance against the case sidewall and may be forcing the brass to bulge outward where the case thickens. A little bit of lube will make sizing much easier with carbide dies and alleviate the resistance as the sizing die moves against the case wall resolving any bulging problem. I often use a small touch of Imperial die wax on every 10th of so case to make sizing much easier on thicker or work hardened brass.

Adding a touch of lubricant when sizing the 357 cases to remove the bulge makes sense from my sizing experience. Ya learn something every day.

When I was having a bulge problem in the 1980's, a carbide sizing die would not remove the bulge but was running it dry. The alternate die I ws using at the time was a steel sizing die which required lubricant and the die would iron out the bulge or not create one in the first place.

Now a days, I only use carbide sizing dies and I generally do not load many maximum load 357 Magnum ammunition anymore. But, I've taken to lubricating my cases even though I'm using carbide dies. The resizing is slicker with less force and I like to tumble the cases after sizing and expanding the case mouths.