Fun at the range - hands

[mikemyers]

I went to Florida Gun this morning for target shooting. From following all the advice from books, articles, videos, and forum posts, I got to where my imaginary targets hanging in my apartment had only a single hole right in the middle, with all 50 bullets having gone through that hole - dry-firing. It's never the same when I get to the range, but for practicing at home, everything seemed to be going great. So, it was off to the range, 15 yard shooting, and 50 rounds of 38 Special Ammo.

This was with my 357 Highway Patrolman, 6" barrel, which feels like it weighs more than I do. I figure the weight is a bonus, not a problem, as the heavier the gun is, the more stable it should be, right? With all the dry-firing I've been doing, the gun feels a lot lighter than even a month ago.....


When I got to the range, I forgot a promise I made to myself, to dry-fire at least ten rounds before I started shooting. I was nervous, my hands were flinching, and I didn't feel steady. So, I started dry-firing, until I felt as relaxed as if I was at home, and the gun felt steady again. Only then did I start shooting.

I shot six more targets, and noticed that while every time I picked up the gun (with 3 live rounds and 3 empties), while those shots were grouped better than I've ever done before, the NEXT time I picked up the gun after reloading, my grouping was still very tight, but in a different location on the target. I tried it again, to make sure I wasn't imagining it.....

For the last three targets, I forgot about mixing live rounds and empties, and shot a full six rounds, then reloaded and replaced the target with a new one.

I'll post a photo of the targets below, but maybe someone can help answer the following - are there any "tricks" to ensuring that every time you pick up the gun to shoot, it will be in EXACTLY the same spot in your hand? Along with that question, why should it even matter? I know it does matter, based on what I did today, but I find that frustrating.....

The targets were home-made, printed on my PC, with a one-inch grid, and a three-inch black circle in the middle.

(Ignore the numbering of the holes - that was only so later on, I could calculate the accuracy, which I can no longer do as I started adjusting the elevation sight.)

 

[MrBorland]

are there any "tricks" to ensuring that every time you pick up the gun to shoot, it will be in EXACTLY the same spot in your hand? Along with that question, why should it even matter?

When shooting for target accuracy, don't simply pick up the gun. Place it firmly, definitively and consistently in your shooting hand with your offhand.

A consistent grip matters for both physical and mental reasons: Physically, it's because the muzzle of the gun starts moving before the round leaves the barrel, and even small variations in grip can change how the muzzle moves during that time. Mentally, if something feels different, that's where your focus will be, not on the process of making a good shot.

Nice work. Keep at it!

 

[murf]

what he said! the slightest change in grip is greatly magnified at the target.

nice shootin, mike. a fine example of the benefits of dry-firing.

please, don't change the sights until you put more time in at the range. a lot of people think they have a sight alignment problem when the real culprit is the nut behind the trigger (not a derogatory comment, it applies to all us shooters).

murf

 

[rskent]

Mike, give yourself a gold star for asking the right question.

If you don't hold your weapon the same way every time you can't possibly shoot it the same way every time. I'm sure that better shooters than me will have better answers, but for me, I just try to pay attention to how I hold the gun when it stays on target. Then I try to hold it the same every time. It is difficult when drawing from a holster one time and picking up the gun off a table the next time.

Next time you dry fire, try picking up the gun for every shot. You should be able to see whether the front sight moves the same every time. The front sight doesn't lie. Also when you dry fire practice you might try doing in front of a blank wall. Much easier to pay attention to the front sight.

 

[mikemyers]

Thanks for all the above information. Regarding the blank wall, for two weeks I was dry-firing at a plain white wall. I kept getting distracted by the black circle in the next room I was using as my target, and the best way I found to ignore the target was to not have one at all. So, I dry-fired at a white wall.

Wow, some great information up above:

• "Place it firmly, definitively and consistently in your shooting hand with your offhand"
  
• "the slightest change in grip is greatly magnified at the target"
  
• "If you don't hold your weapon the same way every time you can't possibly shoot it the same way every time."

Now that I'm thinking about it, it all makes total sense. Until now, I have been picking up the gun with my right hand, and wrapping my left hand around the right. It's going to feel silly for a while I'm sure, but from now on I'll pick up the gun with my left hand, and place it into my right hand, trying to do it the same way every time....

 

[MrBorland]

Below are some thoughts from the great bullseye shoot Bill Blankenship on grip and accurate shooting. Bullseye is shot 1-handed, but his advice is still good.

From:http://www.bullseyepistol.com/billblnk.htm

The point here is that just getting a hold of the weapon is not enough. There must be a decisive effort each time to get the same firm grip on the gun for each shot or string. The young shooter, especially, has trouble here because he hasn't yet found out exactly how to grip the weapon or how hard he should grip it to get the best results. This can only come through time and practice. To get a good grip, first watch closely how you do it each time. This educates the mind to see as well as feel and it comes easier to duplicate one's efforts each successive time. I use the following method to get a grip on the gun:

1. Pick up the gun by the barrel or slide.

2. Place the stock between the thumb and forefinger of the right hand and push the gun firmly to the heel of the hand, being careful to watch how the gun seats.

3. While pushing the gun into the hand, wrap the fingers firmly around the grip

4. All the fingers are used to grip the gun and equal pressure by all the fingers is necessary to control the weapon. No excessive pressure should be exerted on the side of the gun by the thumb.

5. The greatest pressure should be between the heel of the hand and that portion of the fingers on the front of the stock.

6. While gripping very firm, the trigger finger must be able to work back and forth enough to give it an independent action. This can be accomplished through dry firing and practicing taking the grip on the weapon.

7. This firm grip should be maintained at the same pressure while squeezing the trigger to fire one shot or an entire string of shots. A common mistake made is to not get the grip in the same way, causing the gun to feel differently in the hand and thereby causing the individual to hesitate to squeeze the trigger. A frequent mistake made is to gradually release the grip while squeezing the trigger especially during a string of sustained fire and will result in a definite loss of control. To grip the weapon with a very firm grip and with the same pressure throughout the delivery of a shot or string of shots will reduce the chances of making this mistake.

 

[murf]

want to add to mrborlands post. if you are using two hands: same rule for the off-hand - no side pressure from the thumb. and, most will disagree but, no side pressure from the rest of the off-hand.

question: are you shooting single action, or double? using one hand, or two?

murf

 

[mikemyers]

......no side pressure from the thumb. and, most will disagree but, no side pressure from the rest of the off-hand. ......question: are you shooting single action, or double? using one hand, or two?
murf

I'm dry-firing at home both single action, and double action, as I eventually want to be able to do double-action. At the range so far, it is 100% single-action, always with two hands.

Based on what I read above, I'm doing at least one thing quite wrong:

• " The greatest pressure should be between the heel of the hand and that portion of the fingers on the front of the stock."

I know for a fact that when I have been gripping the gun tightly, it is squeezing tightly all around, not front-back. Never thought about it. When I forget to grip tightly, the gun used to move, even with dry-firing, or at least it used to. When I remember to squeeze tightly, maybe that's part of what is reminding me not to flinch.... Next time I go to the range, I'll try to correct this.

 

[murf]

it just takes time and practice to always have a consistent grip. be patient. one shot at a time.

you are doing quite well especially with that double action trigger pull.

murf

 

[mikemyers]

Yikes, sorry Murf.... I meant to write single-action at the range. I keep practicing double-action at home, dry-firing, but decided to concentrate first on what I thought might be easier.

For me, double-action is getting easier all the time, only from practice. When I started, I found it really difficult to pull the trigger without the gun wobbling all over the place. I read someplace that I might be wasting my time if I'm firing single-action, but to me, it's like learning to walk before you can run. I think.

For all I know, I'm wrong about that too.

I could pay $75 to have my gun cleaned and lubed, but I think that's a poor excuse instead of learning how to do it myself. .....one more thing on my list.

 

[murf]

this guy name of ed mcgivern recommends getting good shooting single action before tackling double action. he was quite the shot in his time.

again, i still think you are doing quite well.

murf

 

[BCRider]

Dry firing at a blank wall is fine when you're getting the basic trigger pull down pat. But you're at the point where you now need to fudge and fine tune your grip and trigger pull towards the final goal. Namely to be able to pull the trigger to the break without any movement of the sights at all when the hammer falls.

This requires that you actually aim at a small spot or X or + on the wall. And as the trigger breaks and the hammer falls you are looking for even the slightest jump up, down or to the sides.

If it does jump then you didn't do it right. Either your grip was not correctly neutral or your trigger finger snatched at the trigger or was in too far or not in far enough.

The Travis Haley video I suggested you find earlier spends a critical few seconds on how to set up your grip on the gun so it naturally lines up with your forearm when your wrist is neutrally in line with your forearm. This is a very important first step.

And since you're using a revolver you should also watch Jerry Miculek's series on revolver technique.

There used to be a great set of videos by Jerry on the web. But they aren't out there to be found any longer. But this isn't a bad set of instructions even if it's not as good as those videos. Scroll down to the last set...

http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/JERRY_MICULEK/jerry_miculek.html

 

[ArchAngelCD]

When you dry fire, what are you practicing? Without a target how do you know if you're moving the front sight off the target?

IMO you should pick out a small spot on the wall and when pulling the trigger try to keep the gun perfectly still. Trigger control is one of, if not thee most important part of accurate shooting.

Another question, which ammo are you using? All ammo is not created equal. With poor ammo you can be doing everything correctly and still end up with 3" or larger groups because the ammo is not capable of doing better. Good ammo or match ammo will increase your chances of grouping tighter as long as you do your part. (I load my own ammo)

You are doing well, just don't get impatient, you will get there!

 

[bannockburn]

One thing I have always done, especially if it's been awhile since I have been to the range, is to "warm up" first with a .22. Helps me to get the proper grip and stance, as well as the proper mindset and sight picture, before I start shooting the centerfire guns.

 

[kBob]

Looks like you are not using the same amount of trigger finger consistently. That is to say, the same spot on your trigger finger is not on the same spot on the trigger every time. It is important that you have the same amount of finger on the trigger each time and that the angle of the finger is the same each time. Also make sure the part of your finger that is closest to your hand is not dragging on the frame of the pistol and pushing it to your left with each shot.

-kBob

oh yeah and N-FRAMES RULE! Among revolvers.......

 

[mikemyers]

Looks like you are not using the same amount of trigger finger consistently. ........It is important that you have the same amount of finger on the trigger each time and that the angle of the finger is the same each time. Also make sure the part of your finger that is closest to your hand is not dragging on the frame of the pistol and pushing it to your left with each shot.....

I guess that would be a perfectly reasonable explanation - I know I was using the fleshy part of the finger half-way to the joint, but I can't say it was exactly the same. Will do that next time.

 

[mikemyers]

When you dry fire, what are you practicing? Without a target how do you know if you're moving the front sight off the target?............Another question, which ammo are you using? All ammo is not created equal. ........!

The second question is easy - I go to the range, and ask for a box of 38 special. For my purposes, and my (lack of) ability, I suspect it is just fine.

As to the dry-firing, I can't say what someone "should" be doing, or learning, but in my opinion, all I am learning is to shoot the gun perfectly, time after time, endlessly, so it becomes a habit.

Jerking the gun is a bad habit.
I assumed that if I did it enough properly when dry firing, I would replace a bad habit with a good one.

The gun has a 6" barrel, and I'm pretty sure I can "see" when it moves, but after a while dry-firing at nothing, I usually start aiming at "something", "anything", to confirm that the front sight isn't moving.

(Every time I forget to squeeze, I'm back to the front sight moving slightly.)
(Almost every time I do squeeze, the gun now stays stationery. )


...........and as was noted above, I haven't been gripping the gun properly. I've been squeezing it all around, but apparently the proper way is to squeeze it from front to back, not on either side.....

 

[mikemyers]

One thing I have always done, especially if it's been awhile since I have been to the range, is to "warm up" first ........ to get the proper grip, stance, mindset and sight picture, before I start shooting .... .

You are SO right!!! The first target in my photo up above was as soon as I got to the range. I was frustrated, so I did what you suggested, dry-firing, and starting with the second target, things got a lot better.

I abbreviated what you wrote, and added it to my "check list" of things to read when I get to the range, before I actually start shooting.

 

[mikemyers]

Dry firing at a blank wall is fine when you're getting the basic trigger pull down pat. But you're at the point where you now need to fudge and fine tune your grip and trigger pull towards the final goal. Namely to be able to pull the trigger to the break without any movement of the sights at all when the hammer falls.

This requires that you actually aim at a small spot or X or + on the wall. And as the trigger breaks and the hammer falls you are looking for even the slightest jump up, down or to the sides.

If it does jump then you didn't do it right. Either your grip was not correctly neutral or your trigger finger snatched at the trigger or was in too far or not in far enough.

The Travis Haley video I suggested you find earlier spends a critical few seconds on how to set up your grip on the gun so it naturally lines up with your forearm when your wrist is neutrally in line with your forearm. This is a very important first step.

And since you're using a revolver you should also watch Jerry Miculek's series on revolver technique.

There used to be a great set of videos by Jerry on the web. But they aren't out there to be found any longer. But this isn't a bad set of instructions even if it's not as good as those videos. Scroll down to the last set...

http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/JERRY_MICULEK/jerry_miculek.html

I'm mostly trying now, to do what you suggested, but with a small black circle rather than an X or a +. I'm using one of the "dots" that come with the black/yellow targets for covering up holes.

Jerry's videos are now posted on his website - or at least many of them are. I watched them, over and over, and that was a HUGE help to me.

I will watch the other videos you mentioned tonight or tomorrow. Thanks!!