G3/FAL questions

[ds92]

Hi all,
I've been in a frenzy lately to get an assault rifle-type weapon in something larger than .308 and legal in CT (which rules out AK's in 7.62). I held a saiga the other day and it was OK from what i saw but then again I'm a newb. Anyways, the AR-10 platform made loads of sense to me because i could hunt with it and its accurate, badass, etc. But then i started finding the price was a bit of a problem...$1600 is over my budget.

So anyways, I figured that a G3 or FAL would be a good balance (online they go for about $700-$800 for a g3. does that sound right?) What should i be looking for?
Is a g3 better than an FAL or vise versa?
Any advice or experiences with these guns is greatly appreciated!!

 

[The Wiry Irishman]

I've been in a frenzy lately to get an assault rifle-type weapon in something larger than .308

If you're looking for something larger than .308, your options are going to be pretty narrow. There's a company that makes AR-10s in everything up to .450 Marlin (can't remember the name offhand) and Cobb Arms makes an AR-10 variant in .30-06. There's a few places that have FALs chambered in cartridges other than .308, but I think they're all smaller and based on the .308 case - .260, .243, etc. The aforementioned AR-10 variants are all well over $2000, and I bet the FALs are right up there, too. Never head of a G3 with a different chambering, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there.

 

[Golden Hound]

700 to 800 for a G3? What are you talking about specifically? Those numbers don't sound right.

700 for a CETME - now that's possible. Though the Century builds are supposed to have major quality issues.

An HK91 - the semi variant of the G3 - that is a different kettle of fish. The Heckler and Koch model - that will run you at the very least least $2000 and likely much more. The Greek-made, Springfield Armory-imported version (SAR-3/8) is mechanically the exact same rifle, and will run you a little less but not by much.

The PTR-91 - American made version, which is actually said to be at least as good as the original if not better - that you can get for 1000 or so. Maybe a used one will run you less. Look around on Gunbroker, I guess.

This board seems somewhat skewed towards the FAL, though many will concede that the HK has better sights. Ultimately it's a personal preference issue. The FAL has better ergonomics and a bolt hold open. The HK's cocking handle is heavy and somewhat hard to operate. The rifle in general is very heavy and bulky, but the recoil is consequently pretty light. I've read comments claiming that the HK's recoil is very hard - I disagree strongly. I find it very tame.

Shoot both, if you can. Otherwise, either one is a great rifle. Just comes down to personal preference.

 

[goon]

I still see PTR-91's around for about $1K. If I were in the market for a semi-auto .308 I'd probably try one of these.
Otherwise, get a Saiga and some magazines and spend the rest of your budget on ammo. Ammo for the .308 is not cheap these days.

 

[stubbicatt]

I don't know if they have experienced a price increase or not, but the PTR91 was available from CDNN Investments for right at $900 plus shipping. You can get other models with different features for a little bit more.

I love mine.

As far as recoil, I don't think it is too bad, and is generally less than a M1a, which depending on your price range is another option.

I agree with the others to pick up a few and try them if you can before deciding on what to buy.

 

[Onmilo]

Recoil in a G3 is less than that from an M14 type rifle?
I beg to differ on that opinion but recoil, like opinions, is something that is perceived by the individual.
A recoil operated action such as the G3 will tend to produce more perceived recoil than the gas operated action of an M14 or FAL type action.

That said I own or have owned many examples of G3, M14, and FAL type rifles.
I consider the G3 to be a full power battle rifle with the attributes of the AK47/AKM Soviet type intermediate power assault rifle with one exception, much better accuracy.

The M14 type rifles feature all the attributes of the best early semi-auto battle rifle, the M1 Garand, while eliminating many of the faults, too long gas system, too long operating rod with attached piston, non-detachable magazine, etc.

Tha FAL combines many features of several rifle designs and is, arguably, one of the best overall designs for a full power battle rifle.
Ease of cleaning and maintenance, a seperate piston activated gas system with external regulation of gas flow, and decent ergonomics put the FAL at the top of the list for someone looking for one do all rifle in a full power battle cartridge chambering.
This can be further improved should one acquire an FAL example with a shorter than standard barrel that actually functions with the intended reliability and the individual mounts optics on a solid platform.

Right now, spare magazines can still be found for both the FAL and G3 rifles that are inexpensive enough to be used as filler in a concrete project.
This will change in the coming months.

Steel military magazines for the M14 type rifles have never been cheap, even when magazines were cheap.
I can remember M14 magazines selling for $12.50 each brand new when FAL and G3 magazines were selling brand new in the wrapper for two bucks each in quantity!

With all this said, I now own three M1A copies of the M14 service rifle and a PTR-91 copy of the G3 rifle.
Even with the good luck and pleasure as I experienced with FAL rifles, they just never tripped my trigger enough to keep one.
The majority of shooters would find the FAL to be an excellent one rifle choice.

 

[General Disarray]

The sticker shock of Battle Rifles is somewhat of a grabber at first, but I choose to consider what I'm getting for the money. I choose the moniker 'you get what you pay for', and with rifles that's usually the case. Something to consider over the price tag that is equally relevant is the price of magazines. My 20 round FALs are $12, whereas the AR-10's are $45.

These rifles {I don't think of them as "assault weapons" cuz I don't plan on using them for that} are a bit more expensive than you're guesstimates, but then again the AR-10's have clones made by DPMS that are cheaper than the Armalite's you were quoted. If you could adjust your entry price point up to $1K, you're in the game with some quality. Stock M14's from Springfield, FALs from DSA, and PTR-91's (G3 clone) can all be had in excellent condition at that price. If you get any of these at $700-$800 there's likely something wrong with it.

BTW, you can get quality rebuilt FAL's that have been imported as kits from other countries and rebuilt here. Mine is a German G1 kit and it is all I ever hoped for in one. DSA is way behind on it's orders for newly built FAL, and the kit builds are selling around $800-$900. I would suggest doing more research into kit builds before buying the first one you stumble upon.

These platforms all operated completely different from one another, and are all innovative and spectacular in their own way. The debates rage on around here about which is superior, so it inevitably comes down to preference. I got my best education about these reading The Gun Bible by author Boston T. Party. He does a side by side point by point analysis on each .308 platform. He puts the M14 above them all, and the FALs in a close second; almost equal, FWIW.

 

[stubbicatt]

Onmilo, I understand your points, but disagree with them. The FAL is horrific to try to clean compared to the G3 and its clones. The fore end on that rifle will burn you terribly. The M1A is a neat rifle, to be sure, but it will thump you mercilessly, which I learned as I started out in highpower competition years ago.

Ergos on the FAL some like, but the reach to the safety on that rifle is as bad if not worse than the reach to the safety on the G3 or its clones... must have thumbs like ET to get to it. Then there is that receiver latch which pops open at inopportune times, thus separating the upper from the lower receiver.

Get the G3 clone! The PTR 91 will outshoot any FAL you put it up against, you can readily mount scopes which will return to zero each time, the sights are better... just a better rifle!