Jay the Plinker
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I know virtually nothing about these 2 guns but the fact that they both shoot .308 in 20 round magazines and are semi auto. Reliability, warranty, accuracy, etc.
G3/Ptr 91 vs. Fal
- Thread starter Jay the Plinker
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Giterboosted
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Ive never been let down by either of my FAL/L1A1's
cyberhick
Member
By design, the 91 will edge out the FAL in reliability and ruggedness. Plus, you can get a brand new with warrenty PTR91 GI for $900ish and surplus mags for $2-$3 each, new ones $5-$9 each. One Source Tactical has the GI with 10 new mags, new military sling & new cleaning kit for $1050ish. A new FAL will run atleast $1500 and mags are north of $20 for surplus.
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stubbicatt
Member
Like anything in life, I guess you have to try each one and see if you prefer one over the other. I have found that the G3 is typically more accurate and it is definitely easier to put optics on. Once you have the "special brushes" it is a snap to clean also.
The FAL is a legendary rifle. The gas block/front sight does get sooty in firing, the action is easier to clean in some ways because the top cover slides off. However you still have to clean the piston. Too, you pretty much are stuck with the same furniture that comes on it, or else have to change out lower receivers to put a "para" stock on it.
Lastly in the area of heat control, if you install the wide fore end on the G3 it is much superior to the FAL in that your left hand doesn't get roasted. Of course if you get the G1 or similar with the metal fore end on the FAL, you will need to get the obligatory chicken embossed oven mitt to hold on to the thing after a couple of magazines.
The FAL is a legendary rifle. The gas block/front sight does get sooty in firing, the action is easier to clean in some ways because the top cover slides off. However you still have to clean the piston. Too, you pretty much are stuck with the same furniture that comes on it, or else have to change out lower receivers to put a "para" stock on it.
Lastly in the area of heat control, if you install the wide fore end on the G3 it is much superior to the FAL in that your left hand doesn't get roasted. Of course if you get the G1 or similar with the metal fore end on the FAL, you will need to get the obligatory chicken embossed oven mitt to hold on to the thing after a couple of magazines.
If you want to keep or reload your brass get the FAL. Or a port buffer for the PTR. But get the FAL just to be safe. The FAL has the best ergonomics of any "modern" rifle that I have used. The controls are all easy to use without moving my hand off the grip, and I have smallish hands.
The heat issue of the FAL is no joke. I just installed the DSA "float" tube on my FAL. It is far bigger and should allow for more air flow to help keep the fore end cooler. I'll have to get to the range on of these days and give it a good run down.
Honestly six one way half a dozon the other. Both are good rifles, I just like my FAL better. Both are accurate, both are super reliable. Both are great rifles.
The heat issue of the FAL is no joke. I just installed the DSA "float" tube on my FAL. It is far bigger and should allow for more air flow to help keep the fore end cooler. I'll have to get to the range on of these days and give it a good run down.
Honestly six one way half a dozon the other. Both are good rifles, I just like my FAL better. Both are accurate, both are super reliable. Both are great rifles.
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I cannot afford an original HK91 or FAL. The last FN FAL's were imported into this country in the 70's, adjusted for inflation, they cost $3,000!
Which is a clue why the FAL went out of service.
DSA FAL's are excellent and so are the PTR91 rifles. Both have factory warranties.
All delayed blow back machine guns require case lubrication or they won't work. As said by Col Chin in his Machine Gun series:
Prior to WW2 there were a number of fielded light machine guns that had oilers. The Italians and Japanese with the Breda and Nambu's are examples.
However the Germans captured a Russian machine gun with a fluted chamber, used that in their roller bolts, and that was the end of oilers.
All roller bolt actions have these chamber flutes to break the friction between the case and the chamber. Only the case head provides the gas seal.
Original HK 91's apparently have deep flutes. If you search old posts you find people complaining about the first PTR91's damaging their brass, so PTR changed to less deep flutes. Now people are complaining about the flutes not being deep enough for their crappy surplus ammunition. PTR cannot win one way or another.
If you want a roller bolt to function you must use ammunition without tar sealant, which gums up the flutes, and you must keep the chamber clean.
Since the HK91 series of rifles are still in production, still used as a front line service rifle by a number of countries, that should tell you something about it being a decent, reliable weapon.
Which is a clue why the FAL went out of service.
DSA FAL's are excellent and so are the PTR91 rifles. Both have factory warranties.
All delayed blow back machine guns require case lubrication or they won't work. As said by Col Chin in his Machine Gun series:
Prior to WW2 there were a number of fielded light machine guns that had oilers. The Italians and Japanese with the Breda and Nambu's are examples.
However the Germans captured a Russian machine gun with a fluted chamber, used that in their roller bolts, and that was the end of oilers.
All roller bolt actions have these chamber flutes to break the friction between the case and the chamber. Only the case head provides the gas seal.
Original HK 91's apparently have deep flutes. If you search old posts you find people complaining about the first PTR91's damaging their brass, so PTR changed to less deep flutes. Now people are complaining about the flutes not being deep enough for their crappy surplus ammunition. PTR cannot win one way or another.
If you want a roller bolt to function you must use ammunition without tar sealant, which gums up the flutes, and you must keep the chamber clean.
Since the HK91 series of rifles are still in production, still used as a front line service rifle by a number of countries, that should tell you something about it being a decent, reliable weapon.
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#61 from my list of FAQs on firearm discussion forums:
FAL vs. HK91
61. The question of which is better frequently comes up. IMO both are good designs and either will do what most shooters want to do with a military-style 7.62 rifle. I own both and like them both but there are some differences. To me the FAL feels sleeker and faster handling but this is subjective. The 91 seems sturdier but again this could just be my perception. The 91 is hard on cases, battering them during ejection. Also, for some reason the 91 is horrendously loud with a real sharp report. The FAL is a tad longer and to me the grip angle is not as natural as that on the 91. The bottom line is that all of the differences are relatively minor and I could happily live with either if limited to one. If I had to choose, I would likely pick the FAL but it would be very close. I have no experience with any of the various “clones” of these rifles as mine are genuine FN and HK products so I cannot comment on the quality of the other makes.
FAL vs. HK91
61. The question of which is better frequently comes up. IMO both are good designs and either will do what most shooters want to do with a military-style 7.62 rifle. I own both and like them both but there are some differences. To me the FAL feels sleeker and faster handling but this is subjective. The 91 seems sturdier but again this could just be my perception. The 91 is hard on cases, battering them during ejection. Also, for some reason the 91 is horrendously loud with a real sharp report. The FAL is a tad longer and to me the grip angle is not as natural as that on the 91. The bottom line is that all of the differences are relatively minor and I could happily live with either if limited to one. If I had to choose, I would likely pick the FAL but it would be very close. I have no experience with any of the various “clones” of these rifles as mine are genuine FN and HK products so I cannot comment on the quality of the other makes.
CCH71
Member
Both great guns, but if you're going to shoot it a lot I'd go (and have gone) with an FAL. The parts are generally more readily available, it's easier to disassemble/reassemble and it's not as ammo sensitive as the HK is. FAL isn't a delayed blowback roller locked system like HK has been fond of on several of their offerings. It's a piston system with an adjustable gas port. If the gun isn't cycling well on a particular ammo, turn the gas adjuster and you're good to go.
The PTR91 is going to be less expensive than an SA58 from DSA by a few hundred dollars. Ideally, I'd have one of each. I personally like the looks of the HK41/91/G3 better. My current FAL vairant is an 18" barrel/Imbel receiver with a Steyr STG58 stock and HK black duracoat, so it's got a look to it that sort of splits the HK/FAL difference. It's a fun gun, but not my first choice from an accuracy standpoint. Most original L1A1/FAL barreled rifles are having an incredibly fortunate day if they can muster a 2 MOA 5 shot group. Mine's good for between 3-4" at 100 yds. It's a fun steel plinker though, as it's authoritative when that 7.62 hits compared to small calibers. Word on the street is that the DS Arms SA58 accuracy is pretty decent and a little better on the average than a true L1A1 or FAL barreled gun. While I have a few DSA parts on mine, I've only had L1A1s and FAL variants and not a complete DSA SA58 rifle.
If you're having a hard time deciding, you understandably want them both anyway
Flip a coin, 'cause you'll eventually pick the other one up down the road.
Either way you go (DSA or PTR), it's a similar but different animal than a true original production HK or FN/Imbel/Enfield gun - sometimes that may be for the better
Second from the front in the pic below is my current one:
The PTR91 is going to be less expensive than an SA58 from DSA by a few hundred dollars. Ideally, I'd have one of each. I personally like the looks of the HK41/91/G3 better. My current FAL vairant is an 18" barrel/Imbel receiver with a Steyr STG58 stock and HK black duracoat, so it's got a look to it that sort of splits the HK/FAL difference. It's a fun gun, but not my first choice from an accuracy standpoint. Most original L1A1/FAL barreled rifles are having an incredibly fortunate day if they can muster a 2 MOA 5 shot group. Mine's good for between 3-4" at 100 yds. It's a fun steel plinker though, as it's authoritative when that 7.62 hits compared to small calibers. Word on the street is that the DS Arms SA58 accuracy is pretty decent and a little better on the average than a true L1A1 or FAL barreled gun. While I have a few DSA parts on mine, I've only had L1A1s and FAL variants and not a complete DSA SA58 rifle.
If you're having a hard time deciding, you understandably want them both anyway
Flip a coin, 'cause you'll eventually pick the other one up down the road.Either way you go (DSA or PTR), it's a similar but different animal than a true original production HK or FN/Imbel/Enfield gun - sometimes that may be for the better
Second from the front in the pic below is my current one:
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