Galili Accuracy?

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Hammerhead6814

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Googling for the past half hour hasn't produced any results. Namely I'm having trouble actually LOCATING a Galil/Golani owner from days gone by.

I keep seeing AK's, and then I see .223 AK's. I'm impressed by everything except their accuracy. If anyone buys a .223 rifle and does not get at least a five shot group on paper at 100 yards, in my opinion they've wasted money.

Hence why I'm interested in a Galil. While AK-based, the Israeli's seem to practical of people to use a rifle which is inherently inaccurate (be that due to sights, barrel, or build).

So does ANYONE here own a Galil clone/copy/remake? What kind of accuracy have you come to expect from them? Come on now, it's time to give this rifle it's day in court.

For me the only concern is accuracy. If you have one, or a picture with a grouping by one at 100 yards, I'd be mighty appreciative.
 
I owned and shot a .223 Galil 15 yrs. ago in USPSA "3 Gun".
Accuracy was comparable to an AR-1.5" @ 100 yds. It was NOT a good "game gun" however. Too slow to reload, I don't think it had a bolt hold open device when you ran the mag dry either.
That said, I would not hesitate using one as a SHTF rifle.
 
Both of my 7.62x39 AKs are 4MOA rifles. The Arsenal 5.56 NATO SLR106FR I had could do about 3MOA.

Either will keep all the rounds on a 12" steel plate at 300 yards, which is pretty close to how far I can see that size of a target when it's not painted a bright color.

With the Galil's you get some choices: Century Arms Golani Sporters which go for around $1k or so and feature used (and used hard from what I've seen) Israeli internals on US made receivers of questionable hardness or IMI import rifles, which are running $3k + last one I saw.

Have fun. BSW
 
Hitting a 12" plate at 300 yards is phenomenal shooting! Do you do this with iron sights on your AK?
 
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I keep seeing AK's, and then I see .223 AK's. I'm impressed by everything except their accuracy. If anyone buys a .223 rifle and does not get at least a five shot group on paper at 100 yards, in my opinion they've wasted money.
Click to expand...

The worst Mini-14 is still better than the best AK pattern rifle.

(All things being equal...)
(...and they never are.)
 
The worst Mini-14 is still better than the best AK pattern rifle.
Click to expand...

I keep reminding myself as I shoot my $230/1k ammo using my neigh indestructible $12 magazines that my lowly 4MOA AK is so much worse than that Mini-14 I sold 20 years ago.

BSW
 
i've never owned an AK in 5.56 that had glass on it. but i suspect that many of the poor accuracy results from them would be considerably better with a scope. the GI russian and chinese sights stink on ice, FOR PRECISION USE, not what they were designed for.

even without glass, AK's made with tighter fitting bolt/bbl tolerances are considerably more accurate than ivan's issue iron. (OEM galil, and it's forefather, valmet) the downside is reduced resistance to stoppages from contamination.

i can vouch that the AR's i have shot (in many flavors) with iron sights were ALL inferior in accuracy to those with scopes, regardless of mfgr. this said knowing well that the AR sights are ~vastly~ superior to typical COMBLOC AK variants.

gunnie

PS-pls note that out of the short barreled galil models the effective range #'s were reduced dramatically according to israeli testing. @ 150-200 meters, perhaps target grade sights are uncalled for anyway.

pls see:

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as23-e.htm
 
I read somewhere the Israelis were less than satisified with the Galil, and relegated most of them to armor crews and 2nd line REMF pogue types--not sure if it is true-- BUT I always seem to see Israeli soldiers with M16s-- or more so M4s and other rifles of that line, but not too many Galils...

That says enough to me...
 
I read somewhere the Israelis were less than satisified with the Galil, and relegated most of them to armor crews and 2nd line REMF pogue types--not sure if it is true-- BUT I always seem to see Israeli soldiers with M16s-- or more so M4s and other rifles of that line, but not too many Galils...

That says enough to me...
Click to expand...

Before the Galil could be completely phased in, the Israelis got involved in a war and needed weapons immediately if not sooner. We supplied them with M16's and then continued to provide them for a fraction of the cost of Galils. We still do for that matter and they obviously aren't completely enthralled with the M16 because despite the fact that they get them for next to nothing, they've decided to replace them with the Tavor.

Not that the Galil was all that and a bag of chips. IMO, it's kind of a "designed by committee" weapon. Very heavy, with ambidextrous controls that aren't much of an improvement over the originals and with silly things like a bottle opener on it. I think they would have done much better to have done a complete redesign like the Swiss did with the Sig551.
 
The Israelis got their M-16's FREE from the US and sold a lot of the the Galils on the international arms market, including many to South American countries. I understand it was an economic decision rather than prefering one rifle over the other.
 
I keep seeing AK's, and then I see .223 AK's. I'm impressed by everything except their accuracy. If anyone buys a .223 rifle and does not get at least a five shot group on paper at 100 yards, in my opinion they've wasted money.
Click to expand...

Then you haven't seen an AK shooting...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=358803&highlight=range+report+saiga

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=358223&highlight=range+report+saiga

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5697948&postcount=33
 
"I read somewhere the Israelis were less than satisified with the Galil"

the israelis dropped the FAL due to problems with fine sand contamination stoppages. the M-16 is better than the modified AK they replaced the FAL with for extremely sandy enviornment use?

or it could have been we outright gave israel the money and demanded nearly 3/4 of it be spent on US mfgd wartoys.

below from:

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=33993


"..."The U.S. domination as Israel's arms supplier can be seen in the Congressional Research Service's (CRS) annual study of arms sales," Baranauskas told IPS.

He said the latest CRS survey shows a total of 8.4 billion dollars of arms deliveries to Israel in the 1997-2004 period, with fully 7.1 billion dollars or 84.5 percent coming from a single source: the United States.

A major factor in this trend was the rise in U.S. Foreign Military Financing (FMF) - outright U.S. grants to Israel - which now totals about 2.3 billion dollars a year paid for by U.S. taxpayers.

By U.S. law, Baranauskas said, 74 percent of FMF assistance to Israel must be spent on U.S. military products. This U.S. assistance has now become the main source of financing for Israel's major arms procurements, especially its fighter planes"....

gunnie
 
The Israelis got their M-16's FREE from the US and sold a lot of the the Galils on the international arms market, including many to South American countries. I understand it was an economic decision rather than prefering one rifle over the other.
Click to expand...

But they gave M16s and M4s to their infantry types and such -- the guys who pull rifle triggers for a living -- and gave Galils to guys who had better things to do with their time on the battlefield and only needed a rifle/carbine if things went seriously pear shaped.

Kind of makes one wonder . . .

Anyway, I've got a lot of time playing with and training people on Galil SARs. Nice enough rifle, with some improvement over the AK, but not as innovative as it could have been. Specifically in the accuracy department, the ones we had in the arms room were good 0-300 meter kind of guns, and easier to reach out on the longer shots than with a 5.56mm AK because of the better sights and sight radius.

As was noted earlier in the thread, though, how well a Century built Golani compares to a mil-spec Galil from IMI or the Colombian state armory is a good question, however.
 
the israelis dropped the FAL due to problems with fine sand contamination stoppages. the M-16 is better than the modified AK they replaced the FAL with for extremely sandy enviornment use?
Click to expand...
No. But they don't occupy the Sinai anymore, which is where they had trouble with the FAL. That place is a dusty, dirty, nasty place, whereas most of Israel (and Lebanon) is pretty green, urban, and suprisingly nice.
 
I spoke to an IDF paratrooper a bit about the Galil vs. M16/M4. He confirmed what I have always heard, that it was largely an economic decision. He also said reservists complained about the weight of the Galil--something his fellow paras did not mind at all. His opinion was simple, the Galil worked for him 100% of the time he used it in Lebanon and it was his favorite rifle.

I have owned 5 Galil's over the years. One IMI in .308 and four "Golanis". The IMI of course was perfect and relatively accurate, although it would not match an M14/M1A. It was on par with any .308 AK. I found the recoil harsh for the caliber, and sold it at a good profit during the ban. For that caliber at least I will stick to the FAL. Truthfully I would also take G3 or M1A over the .308 Galil. For me it just was not the right platform for the caliber.

The Golanis are mixed in terms of quality. Mine ranged from parts that looked used, to un-issued. None looked worn out. I had function issues with one. Century took care of it but others report no such luck. So I must say YMMV and buyer beware. They are as accurate as any other .223 AK I have owned save for my Veprs. Mags can be an issue as the receivers are not exactly like the IMI in dimensions, and the builders at times do not install the mag catch perfectly (something I have found common in AK builds in the United States). Get plenty of mags, find out which ones work in your gun, sell the rest. Mine run well with all ammo types tried, including Wolf that does not cycle all of my ARs. They are amongst the softest recoiling .223 rifles I have ever fired. The various improvements made on the Galil over the AK are nice: ambi-selector, better sights, robust folding stock, extended mag release, etc. If you buy a Golani I would try to find someplace where you can inspect it first. Look at the ejector closely as some guns have deformation there. Two of the ones I owned had that, although in neither case did it affect function. Also check mags to see if they lock fully in place. I have had no other issues with mine. One had a poorly matched finish so I did a Krylon camo job on it. The rest looked pretty good out of the box.

Hope that helps!

John
 
Grayrider,

..."I have owned 5 Galil's over the years. One IMI in .308 and four "Golanis". The IMI of course was perfect and relatively accurate, although it would not match an M14/M1A. It was on par with any .308 AK. I found the recoil harsh for the caliber, and sold it at a good profit during the ban. For that caliber at least I will stick to the FAL. Truthfully I would also take G3 or M1A over the .308 Galil. For me it just was not the right platform for the caliber."...

in the early 90's i shot a bud's 308 galil folder. handy length and good balance for quick shooting. handy for storage/transporting when folded. VERY hard on the cheek bone against the butt stock tube when firing. were it mine, i would have looked into getting some kinda pipe insulation foam wrapped around the tube.

+1 on the FAL. especially the springfield armory SAR 48 clone. (imbel mfgd) the FN and L1A1 rifles i have shot weren't as accurate as the imbel/SAR i had. i can't speak for the DSA, as i haven't even gotten a chance to shoot one. i have heard good things about them, but the same can be said about many presidents i didn't/don't care for.

(shouldda been from missouri?)

as above i would also choose the G3/91 and the M1A over the galil if long range or extended shooting sessions were variables in the equation.

have been quite pleased with the mdl 76 valmet in 5.56, except magazine costs. luckily, in spite of dire warnings from armchair gunsmiths on the internet, it uses 35 chance galil orlite mags with aplumb, provided they are loaded with only 34 rounds. (?)

i also see little advantage in the IMI mods after they aquired mfg rights from valmet, except for the turned upward charging handle on the bolt carrier. same alows much easier left hand use over a fresh magazine and/or clearing a FTF.

gunnie
 
I average about 3moa at 100 yards with my CAI Golani with USA/WIN 55gr fmj.Took alot of work to get it running correctly but so far its not a bad deal for $600 from J&G Sales.
 
I have a CAI Golani. Its fit and finish surprised me compared to the early ones I saw at the Century booth at the 2008 NRA Show. It is quite nice with most parts seeming like they are new or only slightly used and the mags are in very good condition.

It recoils much less than an AR (which has essentially no recoil)...that makes the Golani feel like a .22 LR because of the added weight.

Mine does not have the taller bullet guide...and thus the bullet tips often smack the rear of the breech. That said, it does feed and extract reliably once I went through a break in period.

I have not yet benched mine to understand its full accuracy potential. Mine is slightly more accurate than my M4-gery with Wolf ammo and 55 gr surplus. I'm getting somewhere around 3 MOA with that ammo.
 
I have an Ohio Rapid Fire Galil. Accuracy rates with my Bushmaster M4s but not as good as Colt Sporter II. Wonderful trigger, runs smooth as a sewing machine, well made, but magazines are the devil. I have two Orlites that work after lots of modifications. It is not a tack driver.
 
The Galil is about the same in terms of accuracy as the AK in my experience.

The gas system and overall design is very similar and the tolerances are just not that tight.
 
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