Gang rape across the hall in my motel

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Cosmoline

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Los Anchorage
I've been staying at my usual haunt in the nogoodnick Anchorage neighborhood of Spenard this past week, a run-down hotel. My room is on the second floor, with windows looking out to a covered walkway. On Tuesday night I recall seeing a young black man peer in through my curtains briefly. The way he moved struck me as odd, so I made a point of bringing my AK-47 clone into my lap. Not pointing it at him or even looking at him, but just making sure he saw the glint of metal. Well he RAN off, which I thought was odd. The whole thing seemed odd, but then again there are plenty of people in that neighborhood several cans short of a six pack. So I put it out of my mind.

Turns out the kid and two other males were in the process of gang-raping a woman just across the hall in another room! I found out about it just yesterday. Someone at the front desk noticed something fishy about the way they were "leading" a woman upstairs, and later called the cops when he confirmed that something odd was going on. So the three perps were arrested later that night and the woman freed.

At no time did either myself, my roommate or the trained Belgian guard dog with us notice anything odd other than the above-described incident. Had the victim screamed for help, I suspect the three perps would have either given up or become very dead very quickly and I would either be dead along with them or in the newspapers or both. To say we had an arsenal with us is an understatement. I had every weapon in town in the room for cleaning up the rust deposits they picked up at the compound. I had both my sidearms and the AK fully loaded.

But there were no screams, no nothing. It's creepy to think about what was happening just feet away while we were there with enough firepower to stop a North Korean paratroop squad, watching TV.

I guess the lesson I take from this is pay attention to that little voice in your head. Your mind will pick up on body language and other signals that can save your life. It makes me wonder the other time I've experienced similar feelings about someone behaving oddly, what they might have been up to. It's worth being extra on guard when you get that sixth sense, I think.

I also wonder what the best response would have been had I noticed more. Obviously, the response to a real scream for help is clear. Under Alaska law using deadly force to free a woman being gang raped is entirely acceptable if the perps resist. Even if I had to go to a jury over it I would gladly do so, no question. But what if you just see someone tied up? At what point do you call the cops? Unfortunately, I think the determining factor is the victim herself. Without some call for help, there's simply no way to be sure what's going on. A call to the cops might be in order, but nothing more.

Thoughts? Suggestions?
 
Always trust your instincts. Always. I'm as wary as the next person about calling the police for nothing, but I've done it once before and I'd do it again if something really got my hackles up.
 
First off :what:

And now for your question. Knowing when to help, when to call the cops, and when to keep your nose out is difficult. I'd say that seeing a young thug looking into your room and running at the sight of a rifle would hardly be cause to call the cops. If you had seen the lady in question being "led" to the room it would be different, but you aren't omniscient. If you didn't hear anything there was nothing you could have done. I guess that shows up the "lie back and enjoy it" school of thought, eh? If only she could have screamed, you might have saved her the horror and threw some much needed chlorine into the gene pool. Scary stuff.




PS: did you get my reply to your PM, Cosmoline?
 
Flush them?

In soCal we'd probably be arrested for trying to be a good Samaritan, especially if we had your weapon.
But given your laws, call the cops, make sure that you give them your descriptions and what you are carrying ... then I would try to draw the perps out of the room by pounding on their door and yelling "Fire!" then draw back into your room and watch through the peep hole. If you flush them out of the room, then you got them in the open and you can arrest them with your weapons covering them or just let the perps go.
Your main purpose was to stop their illegal activity. Get good descriptions and provide it to the cops when they arrive.
Hopefully by this time, the cops have arrived.
Not good to assault a room/place when you are unclear as to what is going on and how many perps there are in there.
 
It's a real stickler, isn't it? The more I think on it the more questions arise. For example, if I HAD heard genuine screams for help, would knocking on the door have been a good idea? Or would it have simply alerted them and gave them a chance to get their weapons pointed in my direction?

A genuine call for help might actually justify something more drastic than a demand to know "what's going on in there." After all it signifies the imminent threat of death, if the call is dramatic enough. A scream of "they're killing me", for example, might not just justify but *require* a more forward approach. But there's so much potential for error if the message isn't so clear.

One thing is for sure, after going over possibilities it's clear we need more advanced tactical training. Our marksmanship is excellent, and our weapons more than sufficient to take out a platoon of angry brown bears, but the bottom line is we'd probably have gone blundering over there like two of the three stooges. I know the dog knows what to do since she's dropped three real-life perps over the course of her career in Europe. I'm less sure about myself
:D
 
wow thats an eye opener for ya
my eye opener was this morning when i found out that my car had been broken into
crime may have gone down since the early '90s but its still EVERYWHERE
BSR
 
Knowing when to help, when to call the cops, and when to keep your nose out is difficult.

My personal policy is, if I dont know you, I dont help you (I will call the local JBT's for you). Only reason I would help is if someone that is in my family, close circle of friends, or myself are about to die or be greatly injured.

Hope this does not come off as rude or uncaring. But in these days of the invisible POLICE STATE, I am not about to take a screwing for someone I do not know. Sorry. When I mean screwing, I mean losing my gun for evidence reasons, waiting and fighting to get it back. Maybe spending a night in jail due to an LEO's whim if he has not decided it was justified. Court costs, the civil suit that will follow and all. Sorry. Like I stated, I will dial 911, but wont get involved unless there is no other choice.
 
It's creepy to think about what was happening just feet away while we were there with enough firepower to stop a North Korean paratroop squad, watching TV.

Man, that is tragic. :( :( :(

Best wishes for the poor girl, and a slow death to the perps. :fire:

I was going to say "I hope you travel armed" but then I saw you mention your AK and I just went: :D :D :D

I always sleep with my sidearm under my pillow whenever I'm out of town, even at a relative's house.

At home its usually by my bed.

Balog also made a great point too.
 
Why do you pick such a seedy neighborhood to stay? (I used to stay in the N. St. Louis area often when I was there, but that was out of ignorance)

I wouldn't beat myself up over the fact I didn't do anything or wasn't more proactive.
 
I wonder what the media coverage would hav ebeen like had you busted in and perforated these scumbags with righteous 7.62x39.

"Well it is a good thing I had this pre ban 20 rouund magazine because I was not sure how many of these guys there were in there and I wanted to make sure I had enough and 6 a piece was the right prescription."
 
No, it comes off as cowardly and reprehensible.

I dont think so. Just plain smart. You dont have to agree. And refrain from calling me a coward. You dont know me. I have seen the way people are treated by the cops and society when the attempt to help.
 
I wonder what the media coverage would hav ebeen like had you busted in and perforated these scumbags with righteous 7.62x39.

He would be sitting in jail for murder, guns gone and cops patting themselves on the back for a good job.
 
I was tempted to agree with Malone, BUT; going guns blazing into a situation where you don't have all the facts and haven't seen it develop from the beginning is a good way to shoot an undercover cop doing a bust, shoot the wrong person, or do one of hundreds of other things wrong.

Now, this doesn't neccessarily apply to a situation like a gang-rape where it should be pretty clear to anyone what's going on.

However, I'm just saying that you have to be careful.

Whether or not to jump into situations like this has been discussed before, and someone jumping in uninformed has indeed caused it to end very badly for everyone involved.
 
Hmmm, I think kbr80 kind of has a point. Good Samaritans do get punished for helping far too often in this society. I can see how the threat of losing all legal right to own or be around guns for the rest of your life would be a massive deterrent. In some cases, I would follow the same policy.

Rape isn't one of those cases. I doubt if any but the most subhuman could sit and watch while another human was subjected to that. Of course, you've gotta fight smart. If ten guys are attacking a girl and you're armed only with OC spray, calling the cops might be your best option.
 
Of course, you've gotta fight smart. If ten guys are attacking a girl and you're armed only with OC spray, calling the cops might be your best option.

But what if you're only armed with an AK-47, as in this case?


:D :D :D
 
But what if you're only armed with an AK-47, as in this case?


But, he did not know what was going on. Bad juju to act without all available intel.
 
I agree, kbr, and I fully understand your position as I articulated above.

However, I have a hard time imagining how one could "not know what is going on" when confronted with a gang rape.
 
My position is that you gotta live with yourself. I couldn't look myself in the mirror if I didn't help out with a person in trouble. It's the way I was raised. It's my love for and friendships with the people I care about that would lead me to help those I don't know. I would be infuriated if my mother, sister-in-law, or niece were raped and somebody with a firearm and knowledge of the action merely stood by and called the police and let the action continue.

I'm not saying you go in there with guns abalazin' with the AK but you do something.

NOTE: I do realize that Cosmoline states he did not know what was going on and this is in no manner directed at him.

Mark
 
Remember? There was no cry for help! How do you decide, what's going on? Knock the door and ask them "are you raping that girl?"

I bet, if Cosmoline would have shown up with his AK 47, he would be in jail, and the perps strolling the streets, laughing, and looking for another victim (remember? One guy RUN after he saw the AK 47).

May be this is a case for Cassandra.
 
As I stated at the end of my post--this wasn't directed at the exact situation Cosmoline experienced. It was directed at the broad "if I dont know you, I dont help you" quote. My point is directed to somebody who knows whats going on but chooses not to help.

Mark
 
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