Gang rape across the hall in my motel

[Zundfolge]

However, I have a hard time imagining how one could "not know what is going on" when confronted with a gang rape.

Unless she's yelling for help, how do you tell the difference between a gang rape and group sex? Even if she's tied up, there's still a chance you could walk in and grease her boyfriend(s) or customer(s). Sleazy motels are often the site of adventerous sexual liasons (a friend of mine used to manage a sleazy motel that was next to a cowboy club ... hes got a lot of interesting stories that can't be shared in mixed company).

 

[pax]

However, I have a hard time imagining how one could "not know what is going on" when confronted with a gang rape.

I dunno, Jonesy. People sometimes play weird games, and there are an awful lot of twisted people out there. You might go in with guns blazing, and then discover it was a BDSM club meeting...

Cosmo, you're right. It's a real stickler.

pax

Don't go stupid places. Don't hang out with stupid people. Don't do stupid things. -- John Farnam

 

[Autolite]

I support kbr80's point of view ...

I cannot say that I would view the situation the same way as kbr80, but I do not feel that his attitude is cowardly in the least. He is simply aware of the twisted realities of the modern legal system. As previously posted, it just could have been some sort of sex party. Even if there were crys for help, the 'victim' could later deny that it was rape if, say, one or both of the perps was indeed a boyfriend. It's an ugly scenario. kbr80 makes some valid points. I would bet that kbr80 would feel differently if the legal system were truely just ...

 

[Wildalaska]

Whe did that happen Cosmo...Wed or Thurs? At the Spenard Motel ( I live a short distance away)...

I saw a bunch of cops there for quite some time..

Funny thing is thats one of the bad spots in an otheriwse nice neighborhood...and gettin nicer since we started running off the riff raff..

WildiranoffahoodytwodaysagoAlaska

 

[Balog]

Idle curiousity. How does one "run off" the "riff raff" as you put it?

 

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

"On Tuesday night I recall seeing a young black man peer in through my curtains briefly."

For my part I didn't know there were black folks in Alaska.


Regards,
Rabbit.

 

[VNgo]

If I hear screaming in the next room, I'm going to call 911, grab my jump-pack (first-aid gear and medical supplies; I'm an EMT) and respond with due caution. If it turns out to be a hostile situation, the bad guys are going to discover that my kiem is a real family heirloom, not a toy sword, and I do know how to use it.

If they have guns and are ready I'll be in trouble, but I'm willing to take that chance. Most scumbags engaged in rape aren't going to be ready for a screaming Vietnamese berserker with a sword.

 

[Wildalaska]

How does one "run off" the "riff raff" as you put it?

Easy enough..some examples

Saw a car in my parking lot, local dude and four homeys rolling a joint. Aprroached them (properly tactical) and told them to split and never come back or I would drag their baggy pants wearing asses out of their car and whup them, then call the cops, aint seen them since..

Saw a scrawny crack ho walking down the street about three blocks a way...sicced the cops on her, busted.

Spied a car full of losers snorting coke in the McDonalds parking lot (three blocks away)...got the cops on em.

Saw a wino toss a bottle into the bushes...made him clean it up...

One sometimes must be a p**ck

WildiamuglyandlookmeanAlaska

 

[idd]

Always trust your instincts. Always. I'm as wary as the next person about calling the police for nothing, but I've done it once before and I'd do it again if something really got my hackles up.

Best advice. You get a hinky feeling...don't ignore it. Our mind takes in far more info than our conscious mind can process.

Maybe slip the handgun and cellphone into your pockets and step outside into the hallway just to look around. Maybe you take a few steps and hear something - a muffled noise/scream/cry for help perhaps? - coming from across the hall. Maybe you're not sure you heard anything but the hairs on the back of your next are standing straight up for some reason. You can knock on the door just to get a response. If someone answers you can always say "oh, wrong room, sorry" as you scan the room, or look into the eyes of the guy holding the door and let yourself tune into his vibes. Or call the front desk. Maybe there's a bored security guard on duty who will come by and knock on the door. Or call the PD. "Hi, I hate to bother you guys, but I'm staying at the Notell Motel on the fourth floor, and there's something wierd going on here, I got a hinky feeling, and if you have an officer in the area..."

I had a friend who tried to stop a fleeing rapist by smashing in one of the windows on his van. Five days later and four states away the perp was napping in his van in a park when the local PD cruised by, saw the broken window, stopped and woke up the sleeping rapist. His story didn't make sense, the cops' BS dectector went off, and they ran his license and found the open warrant in the system. The perp had raped a 12-yr-old girl. Now he's doing time in a Texas prison.

Moral of the story: you don't have to kick down the door with an AK in order to save the day. You always have options.

 

[kbr80]

Citadel99 stated:

It was directed at the broad "if I dont know you, I dont help you" quote. My point is directed to somebody who knows whats going on but chooses not to help.

Go back and read the last part of my first post before you judge.

Like I stated, I will dial 911, but wont get involved unless there is no other choice.

 

[BamBam-31]

Like LASur5r said, here in LA, Good Samaritans are often known by another name: Vigilantes. Twisted judicial system based on twisted public perception, to be sure, but it's undeniably there, hanging over our heads like a plague. As much as I'd like to help in this instance, the dizzying potential negative repercussions would give me pause.

Had this occurred in LA, I think dialing 911 would have been the wisest move. I'm with kbr80 on this one.

Cosmoline's situation in Alaska is different, however, and he sounds like he's fully aware of his local laws. Still, given the lack of evidence (no cry for help), I think busting in there with guns blazing would have been an over-reaction, and we probably wouldn't be reading Cosmoline's great posts for some time.

I think the error here is we're all looking at the situation in hindsight. When it all was happening, Cosmoline didn't know what was going on. Only later did he discover what had already happened. That's when the "Man, if only I had known!" sentiments creep in. Fact is, he didn't.

 

[gunsmith]

I used to see alot of

fights a few years ago,I lived near a bunch of strip clubs and bars in frisco.
every weekend would end up with some wannabe gang banger getting his head kicked in. in CA if you see someone unconscious getting kicked in the head you're allowed to shoot them,but the police get to arrest you,and the police do not have to protect you from the gang bangers family and gang,or the civil lawsuits either. I helped one girl,at first I called the cops but they drove by never getting out of their car,her gang banger boy friend
was threatening anyone who tried to help her with a knife,(I had my browning hi power clone illegally ccw'd) he left before I had to draw it my "command presence" was enough.

I have never talked to any SF cop who told me I should have intervened in the many fights/assaults I've seen.
Also SF has a reputation of having witnesses killed before they testify.

I live in a much nicer neighborhood now and would jump into the fray if I had to

 

[BluesBear]

Only reason I would help is if someone that is in my family, close circle of friends, or myself are about to die or be greatly injured.

What names would you call me if your wife/sister/daughter/mother had been gang-raped and all I did was call 911 when I could have stopped it?

Actually, cowardly and reprehensible seem kind of mild.

Before anymore armchair quartedbacks chime in, I am basing the appropriateness of any involvement upon actually KNOWING something very bad was happening. Such as a woman screaming for help.

Cosmoline was correct in taking no action for he had no first hand knowledge at that time that any crime was being committed.

 

[c_yeager]

Sometimes ethics trumps "tacticallity". Personally if i heard something like that going on i would check it out regardless of my "tactical" situation. Bad idea? maybe. But, i like to be able to sleep at night.

With the information available however Cosmoline did the right thing.

 

[MicroBalrog]

Sometimes ethics trumps "tacticallity".

Absolutely true.

Better die on one's feet than live on one's knees, and one who knowingly sits through a crime like this is one who lives on his knees.

 

[OF]

Only reason I would help is if someone that is in my family, close circle of friends, or myself are about to die or be greatly injured.

Fair enough. But I hope you don't expect anyone to come to the aid of any of your loved ones when you happen to be unavailable. I guess we'll just stand by and get a good description for the cops. "Well officer, this guy just up and took off with that kid there. I could have saved her, most likely, but, hell, I don't even know her and I could have gotten in trouble if I stepped up. All that money and paperwork and everything is just too much to deal with. I did get a good look at the guy though!"

Gee, thanks buddy.

If you're not willing to lift a finger, you can't expect anyone else to, can you? You either live by the golden rule or you don't.

I guess you don't.

I'll throw in with Malone and MB on this one: cowardly and reprehensible are perfect descriptions, actually.

- Gabe

 

[spacemanspiff]

goddammit wild! leave some riffraff for the rest of us, alright??? cant believe you, hogging up all the badguys.

 

[MBG]

The big questions are; who knew what, and when? It is very rare that criminals wear nametags, and announce their intentions. (Insert favorite politician joke here.)

I’m sure the arrested 3 knew walking up to the motel that they were going to commit rape.

The woman in question may have thought she was going to be robbed or roughed up, until the door was closed and it was too late. (Remember all the official advice says not to resist, and to be a good witness.)

Or, she may have been looking to score a drug deal, with payments in trade.

All Cosmoline knew was that some strange guy peaked into his room and ran off at the sight of a gun.

If he investigated further, his options would still not have been clear cut. Short of witnessing the 3 holding weapons on the woman while she screamed ‘rape’, the law and litigation in most of the lower 48 says the best course of action is to drop a dime.

Even if intervention seems warranted, initial communication to 911 / the front desk is still the best course of action. What if you head across the hall, loaded for bear, and she refuses help? (I know I’m not the only person who’s had assistance refused from a damsel in obvious need.) Or you walk over just as the cops show. How do they know you aren’t going over to join the party?

It’s not about discretion being the better part of valor. It is about intel before action. Not quite the same as refusing to help, but smarter than playing action hero.

Marty

 

[Model520Fan]

Good call, kbr80.

Hope this does not come off as rude or uncaring. But in these days of the invisible POLICE STATE, I am not about to take a screwing for someone I do not know. Sorry. When I mean screwing, I mean losing my gun for evidence reasons, waiting and fighting to get it back. Maybe spending a night in jail due to an LEO's whim if he has not decided it was justified. Court costs, the civil suit that will follow and all. Sorry. Like I stated, I will dial 911, but wont get involved unless there is no other choice.

Good call, kbr80. Why would you do it for him, when he wouldn't do it for you?

How do I know that he wouldn't do it for you? Easy - the freeloading SOB isn't even carrying a gun!

I'm always ready to help someone with an NRA sticker on his truck, or showing other signs that he or she might be a kindred spirit. But my momma didn't raise any fools. Let the freeloaders learn their own way.

 

[Cosmoline]

Saw a wino toss a bottle into the bushes...made him clean it up...

That was you, man! I was gonna come back and get it later, honest.

 

[Kestrel]

Cosmoline,

What in world kind of work do you do? Having all those guns in a hotel room and carrying a guard dog? (Sounds kinda fun, actually...) If you don't mind tellin'.

And Zundfulge -

(a friend of mine used to manage a sleazy motel that was next to a cowboy club ... hes got a lot of interesting stories that can't be shared in mixed company).

That is true! I met a guy that managed even a nicer hotel at a dinner party. He told some stories about things that I just didn't even know went on at hotels. Makes me sometimes wonder about what's goind on in a hotel when I travel.

Steve

 

[4 eyed six shooter]

My experiance has been that most criminals are cowards. I have drawn down three times on someone committing a crime, all three times they ran like the wind slipping on the stuff dribbling out of their pant legs. The last idiot came at me with a knife when I interupted him trying to steal my neighbors car. I didn't pull my .45 until he pulled the knife. I looked at him and told him that I would blow his F in head off and smile while I did it, then told him "your move". I then smiled at him. He dropped the knife, pleaded with me not to shoot him and ran off. I called the PD. The Sgt. that responded knew who he was and said he would have pinned a metal on me if I would have dropped him. A step closer and I would have dropped the hammer on him. I was glad I didn't have too. The aftermath of a shooting can be ugly.
Good shooting, John K

 

[Carlos Cabeza]

Good story 4 eyes, I'd bet your a damn fine neighbor. I had an incident back in oh 1989 or so. At the local 7-11, I pull up and see this rogue SOB just beating the h3ll out of some woman, or so I thought. I hopped out of my truck with my bludgeon tool (ballbat) and the guy says "*** you lookin' at !!!" I told him I was going to bust his head open if he didn't stop abusing that woman. Then, she says "He's my husband, he can hit me if he wants" (ME) Ok, suit yourself. I did my business and left. Some people.............................

 

[Cosmoline]

What in world kind of work do you do? Having all those guns in a hotel room and carrying a guard dog? (Sounds kinda fun, actually...) If you don't mind tellin'.

I'm just a regular Alaskan. You should see the firepower they have behind the counter in the lobby! It's owned by Korean immigrants. The local Koreans don't advertise the fact, but most are quite well armed.

 

[spacemanspiff]

when cosmos hanging in our 'hood, between myself, my landlord, wild, and cosmo, we probably have enough firepower to sieze canada.