gangs serving in the military, using tactics after service

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At a recent class, Clint Smith offered that as a result of gang members serving in the military to bring back training, he thinks we'll be seeing operations like bank robberies done with entry teams, high cover from neighboring buildings, etc.

We've already seen the use of night vision and body armor in home invasions.
 
Wasnt one of the guys in the North Hollywood shootout a former service member? While not a gang incident per sae, it did mark a turning point in police/personal training for many groups of folks.
 
information is a valuable commodity... consultants are paid high dollars to teach and bring outside information/perspective into a an organization or community.

why would it be any less effective/valuable in gangs? these guys are going to teach and then the bar of technical gangbanging will be raised.
 
At a recent class, Clint Smith offered that as a result of gang members serving in the military to bring back training, he thinks we'll be seeing operations like bank robberies done with entry teams, high cover from neighboring buildings, etc.
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I remember hearing similar stuff in the 80s and 90s. This FUD is nothing new. It hasn't happened on any scale worth mention.
 
10,000/350,000,000 = .00285% chance any given american is teaching gang members "military tactics."
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Your odds of being attacked by a terrorist in the USA 3000/301,000,000=0.000996%

Not trying to be a jerk, just pointing out the other fear mongering going on.
 
After my first float with the 2nd Mar Div from Lejeune, we got a blue bandana wearing gang member. He was fairly big, and thought he could push people around as an E-2. I asked to remedial him for his disrespect, and all the seargants came along just in case (I was the Doc).
I took him on a perimeter run, and he quit 2/3 of the way through near the beach. So all the Marines gave him a beach party, I had never seen so much sand flying but the staff said he would not give me anymore lip. He fell out of company PT the next day and asked to see the CO.
The CO gave him lawn duty as punishment for not completing the PT, he thought he would be smart and said it would cause his allergies to flare up. So the CO got him a full NBC suit and a pair of hand clippers to manicure the grass from 2/2 to Regiment HQ. He went AWOL after one day, and he missed ships movement when we deployed.
I transferred to the next deploying unit 2/8 and never heard anyone talk about him again. If they dont want you there, they will find a way to get you to leave.
 
J_Lambs wrote,
The number of gang members in the military was less than 1%. But in perspective, that is over 10,000 troops. Which would equate to a very large military base. So if you think of it as an entire base of gang members, it is scary. Also, the marine that attacked the police was using armor piercing rounds. The cops were outgunned and not trained for that type of combat.
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What exactly is an armor piercing round?

Is that media's name for FMJ?
 
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3) I always thought the military firearms training (basic) taught using full auto MGs, suppressive fire, and accuracy. Obviously the gangs in US can't own Full Auto, so what else could they learn in the military that would serve them on the streets?
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If you think there are no F/A in the hands of gang, you are sadly mistaken.
 
The CO gave him lawn duty as punishment for not completing the PT, he thought he would be smart and said it would cause his allergies to flare up. So the CO got him a full NBC suit and a pair of hand clippers to manicure the grass from 2/2 to Regiment HQ.
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I love it! :evil:
 
Gangs are something I know a lot about. Some are more serious than others but it is not uncommon to find members with a military background or who have been taught things by others who do. Many of the foreign gangs have foreign military experience as well. It is not exactly uncommon for them to study martial arts either or do a lot of other things just like real live human beings. A large number of them even have day jobs. Suprise suprise. And yes, full auto is not exactly hard to get your hands on if you want it. A lot of it at least where I have been comes up on the same shipments with the drugs and gets distributed from there. Other stuff is converted and there is a lot of stuff in circulation that is stolen from the police or military very often by guys on the inside. Yeah that means there are gang cops too but a lot more are just gang friendly having family friends neighbors of whatever in gangs.

The gangs are a much more real threat than the stupid terrorist boogeyman but at the same time it doesn't make sense to go into some kind of bird flu panic hysteria about it. The only thing in place right now that has any chance at all of countering these trends are concealed carry with stand your ground self defense laws. There is no other official action that will have any meaningful impact... see the "war on drugs!" :rolleyes: The two are actually completely connected. There would be no gang problem in our country if illicit drugs were not illicit. This is of course furiously denied by the same crowd who doesn't believe any other official policies could ever have obvious consequences either yet it remains the truth.

So how do you react? Well the reality is all we're talking about is team tactics. There are no supermen in real life. Gang members will not suddenly be bullet proof with the ability to fly and shoot lasers out of their eyes. You just have to get better yourself and try to be in the company of likeminded individuals. This of course goes directly back to the principles of the second ammendment and armed citizens being essential to providing security in a free state. You also want to take every advantage for yourself you can. If you already have a ccw then next time you want to buy another gun get yourself a concealable vest instead. Go IIA without side panels if you have to.

All this stuff will become a bigger and bigger issue as time moves forward. The patriot movement of the 90's saw the beginnings of a re-awakening of a competent militia but it was torn apart by the government in its infancy of course because they covet a monopoly on force. The government is and will continue to lose power and create a void. This void in large measure can be filled by existing militarized gangs or by armed citizens forming community militias. This sort of thing is going on in Brazil right now. The Brazilian government hates it of course because it threatens their monopoly(duh! :rolleyes:) and their way is probably a little different than what we'd do but similar problems yield similar answers and as you all know there is nothing really new under the sun anyway. It's interesting stuff and a view of things that lie ahead for us so here, you can read an article on what's happening in Brazel for yourselves.

http://www.stratfor.com/brazil_burgeoning_militia_governments_slums_rio
 
As long as they're following orders in service and obeying the relevant codes of conduct what's the problem? Having tough SOB's in the service is a strategic asset and always has been. Remember we used Mafia connections of certain ethnic GI's to help take quick control of the countryside in Sicily and southern Italy.
 
I agree Militia's will be our best defense against gangs as they start to consolidate more power. Do you honestly think they will be happy controling the crappy area's of town forever? All we can do is buy the best equipment legaly available and hope for the best.

Gangs however at this point are self sustaining. No drug or welfare reform will stop them. Our only option is for the government to eliminate their leaders and hope they destroy each other in ensuing power vacumes. Deploying the National Guard in gang hot spots is not a bad idea either.
 
Gang members will not suddenly be bullet proof with the ability to fly and shoot lasers out of their eyes. You just have to get better yourself and try to be in the company of likeminded individuals.
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At the same time, keeping in mind that reactions are ingrained by training, there's an advantage in being able to recognize that your opponent has had some time type of training and what his reactions might be. That's one of the lessons learned by non-military folks training with ex-military. "Knowing thy enemy" is a really good idea. Being trained as well is even better.

As always, expect the unexpected, train like you fight, and have a winning mindset. Respecting your opponent means that you assume that he's as good or better than you are, so cheating is only fair. ;)
 
Your odds of being attacked by a terrorist in the USA 3000/301,000,000=0.000996%

Not trying to be a jerk, just pointing out the other fear mongering going on.
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Save that topic for it's own thread, thanks.


I would think that once a young man earns success in the military and finds a new group of brothers, the enticement and sense of belonging they got from gangs would fade as time goes by.
 
I would think that once a young man earns success in the military and finds a new group of brothers, the enticement and sense of belonging they got from gangs would fade as time goes by.
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I've seen that happen first hand.
 
Gangs however at this point are self sustaining. No drug or welfare reform will stop them. Our only option is for the government to eliminate their leaders and hope they destroy each other in ensuing power vacumes. Deploying the National Guard in gang hot spots is not a bad idea either.
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I largely agree Nomad, except two points, the self sustaining one and the NG one.

On the self sustaining one I think you are 99% right because it is now a cultural institution not just a poor career choice. The slight point of disagreement I have is that if the drugs were legal first off there is no way the street gangs could compete with CVS or ABC Liqour or any other corporate entity. Secondly it just would not be as lucrative and they would have their major source of funding cut off. The cultural institution of belonging to a gang would still exist but it would be cooled off from the level it is currently at.

The National Guard idea sounds great but then again what are they really going to do? Stand around and look tough? The cops and Guardian Angels already do that and it doesn't accomplish anything. I agree with the principle though. As long as we're talking about solutions that can't/won't really be implemented then I want a letter of marque and reprisal and I am well able to service it. I grew up in gang territory. All told I have twenty years of experience surviving in their territory and fighting them. Within a year's time I could have every gang member in a 50 mile radius rounded up. With the help of a couple solid men that time could be adjusted downward significantly. But, what to do with them? The authorities don't want them. I don't have the space for them and I certainly can't afford to feed them even if that was a possibility.

The fact that this problem is relatively easy and relatively quick to solve yet no real action has ever been taken to resolve the issue makes me wonder why?

What you said about the best equipment we can get is an interesting situation. An American even at this point in time can get better individual weapons and gear than any soldier is issued if you can accept no full auto, no explosives and other obvious differences that ammount to an adjustment of tactics. You should see what I've done with 6AL-4V ELI. We are the missing check and balance. We are the reason our system is broken. I've read your stuff and I suspect you already know that. The trick of it is that with over 300 million people covering a whole continent we have ZERO chance for the cultural unity required to take our proper place in the constitutional balance. For starters it would require overturning every law that has been created by the "authorities" to prevent the armed citizen's militia from working correctly. See previous comments about the Minute Men being hobbled down on the border. On top of that it would require the support or indifference of half the community. This won't happen until we go Brazil.
 
"Do any of you people know who Charles Whitman was? Private Cowboy?"
"Sir, he was that guy who shot all those people from that tower in Austin, Texas, sir!"
"That's affirmative. ...Anybody know who Lee Harvey Oswald was? Private Snowball?"
"Sir, he shot Kennedy, sir!"
"That's right. Do any of you people know where these individuals learned to shoot? Private Joker?"
"Sir, in the Marines, sir!"
"In the Marines! Outstanding!"
 
Tactics are tactics... About 15-20 years ago, a friend was rehabbing in a marginal neighborhood... edge of a bad, edge of a good...

So, he's sitting in a window one evening, and the local street outfit walks past... About 15-20 of them... They had a guy out on point, they had another one on drag (spaced far enough out that they could check the side streets/alleys), and there was a guy carrying a bag phone next to the fellow who looked like the boss... Basic show of force for the population.
 
I had a former gang banger in my platoon in basic training. He had gotten in trouble when he was 16 and was sent to a state run boot camp. he liked the structure so much that when he was 17 his mom let him join the army. The guy was a natural born leader and if he hadn't been sent to the juvt boot camp he never would have realized his potential.

He had "gang tatoos but was very embarrassed about them.
 
Oh, and fwiw, I've got a friend who is a former hard-core St. Louis gangsta... Back about 20 years ago... He got popped with about 8 oz. of the white lady, and did some time.

Then he got a job. And another job, and another job, and now he's got a nice house in suburbia...
 
When I was in Iraq a few years ago, on the US Army FOB nearest my location, every concrete barrier around the dining facility and PX was festooned with gang graffiti.

Here in Korea, we have fellows attired in the latest Pimp Daddy McThug attire strutting about during off duty hours, and the "M/F this, beyotch-ho that" music blares from the barracks. The chain of command doesn't seem to care, so I guess it isn't a problem.
 
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