G11354
Member
I recently made the leap into bullet casting for my S&W 500 and purchased a LEE 440gr gas checked bullet mold.
Could I avoid using gas checks if I used reduced loads?
Could I avoid using gas checks if I used reduced loads?
Gas Checks?
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G11354
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I figured that would likely be the case, appreciate the feedback.
Yep. The bullet base needs to be flat and square to obturate properly and seal well. Trying to use bullets shouldered for gc's WITHOUT gc's likely won't work. You'd be providing a perfect gap for the gases to escape around the bullet causing gas-cutting, lousy accuracy, and general unhappiness. Gas checks ain't cheap, but you need them.
Or a different mold.
Or a different mold.
Swampman
Old Fart
I've had fairly good luck shooting powder coated gc rifle bullets without checks at subsonic velocities.
I lose some accuracy, but the Lee 200 grain .309 bullet without a check will usually hold under three inches at 100 yards in my .308 Remington 700.
I run my melt hot enough to frost the bullets and drop them dirrectly into a 5 gallon bucket of water.
I then tumble coat with Harbor Freight Red, bake at 425 degrees for 30 minutes to cure the paint, drop 'em in ice water and size to .309 in a Lee sizing die.
As long as pressure isn't too high and the bullet is large enough, the rear driving band will seal just like a plain base bullet does.
As always, YMMV, and things may not work as well when you've got a cylinder gap in the equation, but if you've already got the mold, why not try it? The worst that'll happen is a leaded barrel which you can clean up quickly with a copper Chore Boy pad and a little elbow grease.
If it doesn't work, try ordering your checks directly from Gator, the checks are every bit as good as Hornady's and a lot cheaper.
I lose some accuracy, but the Lee 200 grain .309 bullet without a check will usually hold under three inches at 100 yards in my .308 Remington 700.
I run my melt hot enough to frost the bullets and drop them dirrectly into a 5 gallon bucket of water.
I then tumble coat with Harbor Freight Red, bake at 425 degrees for 30 minutes to cure the paint, drop 'em in ice water and size to .309 in a Lee sizing die.
As long as pressure isn't too high and the bullet is large enough, the rear driving band will seal just like a plain base bullet does.
As always, YMMV, and things may not work as well when you've got a cylinder gap in the equation, but if you've already got the mold, why not try it? The worst that'll happen is a leaded barrel which you can clean up quickly with a copper Chore Boy pad and a little elbow grease.
If it doesn't work, try ordering your checks directly from Gator, the checks are every bit as good as Hornady's and a lot cheaper.
shootniron
Member
I have been casting bullets for years...you can shoot gas check cast bullets without using the gas check. You will give up a small amount of accuracy, but it will be of little significance. Matter of fact, I never shoot gas checked bullets any more.
I powder coat all of my bullets now, but I did not use gas checks anymore, even before I started coating my bullets...just did not have a need as they shot without leading.
I powder coat all of my bullets now, but I did not use gas checks anymore, even before I started coating my bullets...just did not have a need as they shot without leading.
I shoot 358156 all the time in 38 Special with no problems with no GC.
billybob44
Contributing Member
For your caliber YES on the Gas Check...
For your listed application, YES you should Gas Check.
As said upthread, for MOST other calibers, a good Powder Coated lead slug will work well without the Gas Check..Bill.
For your listed application, YES you should Gas Check.
As said upthread, for MOST other calibers, a good Powder Coated lead slug will work well without the Gas Check..Bill.
35 Whelen
Member
What's the difference in shooting a cast bullet that's designed for a gas check ,without a gas check and shooting a cast bullet with a bevel base? None, I don't imagine.
Here's a great thread on the subject:
Can I shoot a gas check design with out the gas check???
35W
Here's a great thread on the subject:
Can I shoot a gas check design with out the gas check???
35W
Hondo 60
Member
Yup, as stated, you'd need a different mold, but they've have to be pretty lame loads.
Depends on how hard your lead is.
You'd want it around 20 BHN or harder.
Even that would only get you about 1200fps.
Any faster & you'd still have leading in the barrel.
Gas checks help prevent leading.
Depends on how hard your lead is.
You'd want it around 20 BHN or harder.
Even that would only get you about 1200fps.
Any faster & you'd still have leading in the barrel.
Gas checks help prevent leading.
Swampman
Old Fart
Go ahead and try the unchecked bullets at moderate load levels. If you're not set up to powder coat, try using a somewhat heavier than normal coat of Alox.
If it were me, I wouldn't even try to cast the bullets particularly hard.
As for the loads being "lame", I imagine you could easily surpass my best efforts with a gas checked 320 grain in my four inch Model 29.
As long as those 320's are properly placed, they kill just fine.
I doubt there's any animal on this continent that would shrug off a decent hit with that 440 grain 50 caliber slug, even if it was traveling a measly 1000 feet per second.
The meplat on that Lee .501" 440 gr. is HUGE.
If it were me, I wouldn't even try to cast the bullets particularly hard.
As for the loads being "lame", I imagine you could easily surpass my best efforts with a gas checked 320 grain in my four inch Model 29.
As long as those 320's are properly placed, they kill just fine.
I doubt there's any animal on this continent that would shrug off a decent hit with that 440 grain 50 caliber slug, even if it was traveling a measly 1000 feet per second.
The meplat on that Lee .501" 440 gr. is HUGE.
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I curious to what alloy your using and your casting set up. More so your sizing equipment. Are you using the alox lube with the lee sizer or a lubesizer. In a hoss like the 500 the alox lube or your alloy might let you down before you get to the point of needing a gas check. I suggest you visit the cast boolits form and do some reading before you get too involved. In general you can get by without the check, but it will depend on your load and bullet to bore fit. Too small is too small with or without a as check. I think that I understand where you are coming from. I have been there too. Get a new toy that requires accessories that you don't have (batteries not included type of thing). The excitement and desire to try it out overwhelms you, so you want to try something to get by. Usually it's more trouble than it's worth and leads to frustration. With my life experiences in mind, I would say wait until you get everything in line and then try it for the best chance for success. The boy in my says give it a spin and see what happens. Keep an eye on what's going on and the worst that will happen is that you get the opportunity to scrub lead from the barrel.
I've loaded 158 LSWC's with and without gas checks for over 40 years with equal accuracy and no leading. The alloy has to be right for the speed of the rounds...in my case, I load Lyman's 358156 GC, cast from wheel weights with just a pinch of tin added for mold fillout. I size them .359", lube with the old NRA 50-50 alox/beeswax formula, and use them in a pair of S&W M19's, two Ruger BH's, and a Marlin 1894 cs. Accuracy from the revolvers runs less than 2" at 25 yds from rest, about about the same at 75 yds from the carbine. For powder, I've used Unique, Herco, Win 231 and Accurate #7. Velocity with tuned loads from the revolvers is very close to 1000 fps and approx. 1200+ in the carbine tho I've not chrono'd the latter.
To eliminate leading, the cast bullet, either gas checked or plain based, must be sized to ft the throats of your revolvers, not the bore. A hard push fit is what you're looking for though 0.001" over throat dia. is doable as well. In the carbine, 0.360" does a bit better, but the same loads at 0.359" do nearly as well and without leading in that Micro-Groove rifling.
For heavier loads, with that WW alloy, a gas check will prevent leading up to 1200 fps in my revolvers and up to 1550 fps in the carbine (these velocities are the limits of what I"ve tested...BtW, 1500+fps will kill KY whitetails quite nicely). One trick you might find useful is to size and lube normally, in your Lyman Sizer/Lubricator, then swirl lube with Lee Liquid Alox diluted 30% with paint thinner. It's easy, fast, and helps prevent leading if your bullets are a little (not more than 0.001" undersize). As a general rule, it's so effective that I normally do it with all my cast bullets; tho I suspect that the majority of the lube in the bore is coming from the 50-50 injected with the Lubricator/Sizer.
HTH's Rod
To eliminate leading, the cast bullet, either gas checked or plain based, must be sized to ft the throats of your revolvers, not the bore. A hard push fit is what you're looking for though 0.001" over throat dia. is doable as well. In the carbine, 0.360" does a bit better, but the same loads at 0.359" do nearly as well and without leading in that Micro-Groove rifling.
For heavier loads, with that WW alloy, a gas check will prevent leading up to 1200 fps in my revolvers and up to 1550 fps in the carbine (these velocities are the limits of what I"ve tested...BtW, 1500+fps will kill KY whitetails quite nicely). One trick you might find useful is to size and lube normally, in your Lyman Sizer/Lubricator, then swirl lube with Lee Liquid Alox diluted 30% with paint thinner. It's easy, fast, and helps prevent leading if your bullets are a little (not more than 0.001" undersize). As a general rule, it's so effective that I normally do it with all my cast bullets; tho I suspect that the majority of the lube in the bore is coming from the 50-50 injected with the Lubricator/Sizer.
HTH's Rod
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