Gear For Gunsite 250

[D.B. Cooper]

So I'm going to finally go do Gunsite's Pistol 250 course in a few months. As far as firearm accessories, what are some good recommendations?

My current set up a basic kydex owb holster that clips onto my leather pants belt. Ammo management is either kydex mag carries clipped t the same belt or a simple dump pouch. And that's about it. (K.I.S.S. principle.)

How much ammo will I need on body? How many mags will I need ready loaded at any given time? Do I need a holster with positive retention, i.e. some sore of lock that must be disengaged? (My current holster's only retention is the tension in the kydex.

Is there anything I'm missing?

 

[Jimbo80]

Don't they tell you what to bring?

 

[rperyam]

Every training that I have been sent me an extensive list of what was necessary and what was nice to bring. I'm sure they will too. Did you check their website for specifics on your training? That would be a place to start.

 

[tarosean]

Spending the money on airfare/hotels/etc. Bring a backup gun/mags. Don't care what the name is on the slide of your main gun..

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Don't they tell you what to bring?

Every training that I have been sent me an extensive list of what was necessary and what was nice to bring. I'm sure they will too. Did you check their website for specifics on your training? That would be a place to start.

Yes, their website has some information. Guess I was hoping to hear from some folks who have been there, done that who might have some insight as to what worked better than others, what didn't work so well, etc. Perhaps I formed the question poorly.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I remember them sending out a list of things to bring...but it's been several years since I've been to Gunsite

How much ammo will I need on body? How many mags will I need ready loaded at any given time? Do I need a holster with positive retention, i.e. some sore of lock that must be disengaged? (My current holster's only retention is the tension in the kydex.

Is there anything I'm missing?

I think I brought 1k rounds and went through most of it. How many mags you bring sort of depends on how many rounds your magazine holds. I took the 250 class with a 1911 and brought 10 mags...and an Uplula loader. Our section was divided into two relays. If you aren't shooting, you'll be stuffing mags and drinking water. Don't expect to get any of your brass back...mark your mags.

1. I highly recommend kneepads, for shooting from kneeling and prone, as the ground is pretty rocky
2. Electronic hearing protection will work a lot better during class than passive protection
3. Bring a flashlight for the Night Shoot
4.You'll need frangible ammo for the Shoot House, but you can buy it at a reasonable price at the Pro Shop
5. Bring cash to pay for the catered lunch each day (you pay for the whole week on the 1st day) unless you plan to bring a bag lunch
6. Bring Motrin and bandages for your hands (Liquid Skin was very popular)
&. They run a hot range there, so decide what you're going to do during the lunch break

 

[Old Dog]

I found the perfect long-sleeve shirts, the Columbia Performance Fishing Gear. In light colors. Can roll up and button the sleeves so they don't come unrolled, have vents in the back, breath well and wick the sweat, more importantly, have soft collars for when your neck gets sunburned. (It will, especially if you're wearing a tee-shirt.) 5-11 makes some great lightweight, stretchy pants with decent cargo pockets now. If you're wearing blue jeans or heavier Carhhart or Duluth Trading Co. pants, well, good luck. Also, many guys are not used to packing larger handguns with the clothes they normally wear -- you'll have weight on your belt, your pants will sag, and you may sport a plumber's crack when shooting from some positions.

Sunblock. Many of us still got burned after slathering on SPF-50. And I'd lived in Southern Arizona...

Soft fitted cap with bill. UA makes a good lightweight, stretchy cotton one.

leather pants belt.

Make sure it's a good belt. Crossbreed, BeltMan, BladeTech, not a thin regular pants belt. Bring a spare belt.

My current set up a basic kydex owb holster that clips onto my leather pants belt. Ammo management is either kydex mag carries clipped t the same belt

No, not clip-on holsters. Use a holster with belt loops, same for mag pouches!

A good Kydex holster is fine with passive retention. Stress good. Not a budget holster. Then buy another. I wore a mid-rise, some guys (especially those with tactical girth [love handles] not accustomed to OWB struggled with draw from high-rise holsters. More mag pouches than you think you'll need. Make sure you can draw your mags out easily.

Couple bandanas or smaller microfiber towels. You're gonna sweat. Lots. Wanna be able to wipe it before it mixes with your sunblock and gets in your eyes.

Spare boots (most guys are now wearing low-cut trail-running shoes (Salomon's are trendy for some reason) or lightweight hikers. I saw a guy blow out the only pair of boots he brought (sole came off, they were well-used, no bueno). Good wool-blend socks. And spares.

A good (stress good: Surefire, Streamlight, Fenix) flashlight. And then a spare.

Finally, hope you're in decent physical condition. Even winter in Arizona can be hotter than most folks from other states are used to, and if you're way out of shape, the exertion can be... well, noticeable.

 

[luzyfuerza]

I would pay careful attention to the suggestions from @9mmepiphany and @Old Dog . Particularly those regarding belts and holsters. Their comments are on-target.

My Gunsight experience was a 150 course. Basically a three-day, off-site 250. For that course, I decided to honor the good Colonel by shooting a 1911 in 45 ACP. I'm glad I did.

Regarding spare mags, you only NEED one on your belt. Two is better. Put other spares in pants pockets, and move them to your mag pouch between drills. Pants with lots of support-side pockets are good for this. Bring plenty of mags.

I like fishing caps like this for shooting courses in desert sun:

https://www.amazon.com/Foldable-Fis...hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584138870881826&psc=1

Without the face covering, of course.

I also believe that an identical spare gun is a must. Even if you have many rounds of experience with your primary. You want to spend your time in Paulden on the range, not with their gunsmiths.

One last suggestion: prepare for your course by watching the NSSF videos filmed with Gunsight instructors that are relevant to the 250. Excellent content that will introduce you to the skills you'll practice in person.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA0F0224E3C93263E

Enjoy!

 

[D.B. Cooper]

No, not clip-on holsters. Use a holster with belt loops, same for mag pouches!

Easier said than done. I've just spent an hour perusing holster maker webpages. Haven't yet seen a kydex OWB holster for 92FS that wasn't a clip on. I had a similar problem with my revolver and my ccw (actually, no one makes holsters for my ccw), so I eventually gave up and went with a clip on. It worked well for a while, but the clips are getting weak now and spread apart to the point they no longer stay on the belt during the draw stroke.

 

[gotboostvr]

Easier said than done. I've just spent an hour perusing holster maker webpages. Haven't yet seen a kydex OWB holster for 92FS that wasn't a clip on. I had a similar problem with my revolver and my ccw (actually, no one makes holsters for my ccw), so I eventually gave up and went with a clip on. It worked well for a while, but the clips are getting weak now and spread apart to the point they no longer stay on the belt during the draw stroke.

You might be able to replace the clips with belt loops on the holster you already have. I've bought holsters that came with clips and replaced them myself with loops.

There might be something on this page that'll work:
https://holsterbuilder.com/product-category/belt-attachments/owb-attachments/

 

[JTQ]

Haven't yet seen a kydex OWB holster for 92FS that wasn't a clip on.

I'm a serial holster window shopper. I think it would take me some effort to find a kydex OWB clip on holster for a 92FS.

Kydex with loops, that should be pretty easy.

Blade-Tech Classic with SRB/ASR https://blade-tech.com/products/classic-owb-holster

Comp-Tac International https://www.comp-tac.com/international-neutral-colors

Dale Fricke Gideon Elite https://dalefrickeholsters.com/product/gideon-elite-holster/

JM Custom Kydex has multiple options https://www.jmcustomkydex.com/c/Beretta-Holsters.html

 

[D.B. Cooper]

I'm a serial holster window shopper. I think it would take me some effort to find a kydex OWB clip on holster for a 92FS.

Kydex with loops, that should be pretty easy.

Blade-Tech Classic with SRB/ASR https://blade-tech.com/products/classic-owb-holster

Comp-Tac International https://www.comp-tac.com/international-neutral-colors

Dale Fricke Gideon Elite https://dalefrickeholsters.com/product/gideon-elite-holster/

JM Custom Kydex has multiple options https://www.jmcustomkydex.com/c/Beretta-Holsters.html

Thanks. And yeah, you beat me to it. Right after I posted that, I saw the older model of the Blade Tech. I had been looking at their 2.0 model.

 

[JTQ]

Muddy River Tactical https://muddyrivertactical.com/product/outside-waistband-kydex-holster/

Red Hill Tactical https://www.redhilltactical.com/Beretta-Competition-Holsters_p_33.html

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Finally, hope you're in decent physical condition. Even winter in Arizona can be hotter than most folks from other states are used to, and if you're way out of shape, the exertion can be... well, noticeable.

Interesting. Not my forte, either. I also looked into going down to Atlanta in March for Warrior Poet's program. They're running their Pistol 1,2,3 and then Rifle 1,2,3-all in succession. I noticed their course description for Rifle 3 stated "combat fitness." That, coupled with the very high overall cost, drove me away. Even when I was in the Army, I struggled to pass the PT test.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

If you're wearing blue jeans or heavier Carhhart or Duluth Trading Co. pants, well, good luck.

So, I have to ask...why do you say this? I basically live in the Carhartt B01 heavy canvas pants. I shoot USPSA in them regularly. In some circumstances, I wear the Duluth synthetic pants-either the AK Hardgear or the Dry On They Fly. What problems do you foresee with this?

 

[Sovblocgunfan]

I can answer, not even having been to Gunsite.

The sort of pant you wear will be too heavy and hot for where you are going. They will make you sweat more and dehydrate you faster. Key point here. The dry climate will dehydrate you without you realizing it anyway. Your preferred pants will make it worse.

As they absorb sweat they will become very uncomfortable and add extra weight to your clothing. The garment will become more difficult to work in and will not want to stay put-it will want to sag and cause added distraction.

Finally, that moisture and sagging will cause chafing points. You’ll be raw in places you never expected. Very uncomfortable, very quickly.

 

[Old Dog]

So, I have to ask...why do you say this? I basically live in the Carhartt B01 heavy canvas pants. I shoot USPSA in them regularly. In some circumstances, I wear the Duluth synthetic pants-either the AK Hardgear or the Dry On They Fly. What problems do you foresee with this?

Sovblocgunfan nailed it. Heavy canvas pants in AZ? Not for eight or ten hours on the range.

 

[shoobe01]

+1000 to everything stated, esp the heat stuff like hats. Wide brimmed hat. A not-cut-down boonie is good, but I'd look at heat specific ones like the Outdoor Research type so the hat retains no heat also.

I wore a Camelbak the whole time. And refilled it mid day.

Bring a chair. There is downtime. Not a lot, but take a sit.

Snack also. A LOT of people get used to toughing out their day at work, hunting, etc but when it gets hot and active you cannot do that. Even if you don't like lunch, drink and snack all day. Heat casualties happen, mess up everyone's experience not just your own.

Bring 2 of everything. Spare gun if you can. Spare holster (even if an IWB so not optimal for range work, bring it). Spare light. If you know how to work on your gun, bring tools and spare parts. Bring easy to apply lube and if the gun seems slow, lube it up mid day (make this easy to find, with the reloads, so others can spray your gun down without you going off the line if it starts failing).

Clean the gun each day. Yeah, you may be like me and not clean often as lube is enough. It's a lot of shooting, and is dusty. We got attacked by a dust devil one time. Disassemble, and clean the gun each evening.

More magazines. And something to reload them out of EASILY. Dump a bunch of ammo loose into a bag like a border shift, don't be plucking rounds. Bring more mags so when there is downtime you are always stuffing them, and when there is NOT downtime you have a chance to keep shooting. Make the load process simple as you will be buddied up, someone else will often enough be stuffing mags for you. Unless you have enough spares. Enough? I first went with like 8-10 and it was just okay. Today my primary gun I'd take to classes has... I forget, but around 20 mags.

Manage your ammo! They will, very rapidly, stop telling you to reload. Up to you to have a charged up gun.


Holsters are covered, yes change loops etc. But also Safariland SLS/ALS for the M9 are pretty common as mil surplus and often dirt cheap (and great holsters). You can unscrew the retention system if you want do make it more of a gun bucket for range time (and are permitted to by the range. I dunno their retention policies off the top of my head).

 

[UncleEd]

Sounds delightful. Seems the
program(s) are similar to what
the government runs but the
government pays you and also
supplies all the equipment
you will need.

 

[luzyfuerza]

One other lesson I learned about lube: during a class in 100F heat, a buddy found that his AR was malfunctioning due to underlubrication. He was using an aerosol spray lube, and his gun was drying out. Switching to a liquid, higher-viscosity lube completely eliminated his gun's malfunctions.

 

[Nuclear]

A spare gun, enough mags to have over 50 rounds on your person (there was one drill I went through all 6 of the 1911 mags I had on me), a good holster and belt, enough mag holders for all your mags, reloading tool, a cleaning kit with lube, shooting glasses you can use on the night shoot as well as in the day, knee AND elbow pads, hat, electronic hearing pro, the kind of band aids for blisters, sun block.

I went with a 45ACP 1911. Looking back, that was a sub optimal decision. I became the poster child for mag changes. A double stack would be better as less time managing mags and more paying attention to what you are there to learn. When you are shooting falling steel targets, one 45 hit will knock them over, vs 2-3 9mm hits. About the only time it was an advantage. There was only one person shooting a DA/SA, and he had some issues with the transitions between the DA and SA, but that might just have been him. I don’t know if he had to drop the hammer between each repetition or if he could put it on safe per the range safety rules.

Most of us just got the ammo package that was available at the time, 1000 rounds fmj and a couple hundred frangible (I think). One guy from California (of all places) brought a couple thousand fmj and more frangible than the rest of us, but he got the nickname of "machine gun kelly" as he shot all the falling steel targets to the ground, and frequently shot additional rounds at the static target drills, he was that fast.

 

[JoeHenry]

Never been to gunsite. However I have been to Chapman Academy three times. For their five day course they had us bring as close to 2,000 rounds as possible. I can not stress enough, that you need a second gun. Doesn’t have to be identical to your main squeeze, but one you are familiar with and ammo for it if not the same caliber. On a Thursday evening, we were to qualify Friday, I was shooting the mover and the front sight on my custom Browning HP went over my shoulder and was nowhere to be found. If not for my extra gun it would have been a terrible trip.

 

[ECVMatt]

I'm a serial holster window shopper.

OK, this cracked me up. My wife often comments on my holster fixation!

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. I would love to go to GS but work too much. This thread has renewed my interest in attending.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

OK, this cracked me up. My wife often comments on my holster fixation!

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. I would love to go to GS but work too much. This thread has renewed my interest in attending.

I've been kicking it around for a couple years. They're coming to my home state, so I jumped at the chance. I'm glad this discussion has helped more than myself.

 

[JTQ]

Dara Holsters https://www.daraholsters.com/owb/