Gunsite - Quality OWB / Light

[Bobson]

Long post, I apologize.

I've been carrying concealed pretty exclusively since I began carrying, but lately I've been considering carrying openly on occasion. Aside from that interest in OC, I don't even own an OWB holster currently, and I've been meaning to get one for a while now, even if I only use it at the range.

The thing is, I'd also like to take a quality training course in the next year. Hopefully that course will be 250 Pistol at Gunsite. It's expensive and will require me to take time off work, but it's hard to look elsewhere when I live so close to such a prestigious training academy.

I want a quality kydex OWB retention holster (no paddles or pancakes), but don't want anything with retention straps. The other thing is, I don't have a light on my handgun currently (nor do I own one for it), but I need to pick one up in order to take 250 Pistol at Gunsite (unless I'm misunderstanding the equipment requirements page at Gunsite, which is linked below).

What I have in mind is to go ahead and start looking for a quality retention holster that comes in multiple models. For instance, say Holster X is a thumb-drive holster that's made for the G19 in a plain model (gun only), and the same company also makes Holster X.2, which is identical, except its made for the G19 with a TLR1 (or other light) attached. Seems like the best (though not cheapest) thing to do would be to get both the X and X.2, since I'm not going to have a light on my gun 24/7. This way though, I can bring both holsters to Gunsite (or whatever class I take), and be ready to train with the same gear/retention system whether the light is on or off; and obviously that benefit would extend to anywhere I am, even at the range by myself down the road.

I was interested in the SERPA for quite a while, and it meets all the requirements I have, but Gunsite no longer allows it to be used in their courses. (See the Gunsite Equipment Requirements (for pistols) page.) As a result, the SERPA is no longer being considered - unless someone thinks it would be a good idea (and is able to get me to agree) to shell out $1500 bucks for a five-day training course, and use a holster for the course that I'll never use for anything else.

So to recap, I'm asking for suggestions for three things:

1. A quality OWB retention holster (prefer thumb-drive, but open to suggestions, as I've never actually used a TD) that's made for belt (not paddle).
2. The same holster must be available for a Glock 19 with and without a light attached. I'd really like to stay under $200 for both holsters, but willing to stretch a bit if necessary.
3. Recommendations for a light. Not really sure what to specify here. I'm not wealthy by any definition of the word, but I'm a man who believes he gets what he pays for, and I don't like buying things twice because the first one was trash. I think $150 or less is reasonable. Something by Streamlight maybe, as I always hear great things.

Thanks a LOT, and sorry for the wall o' text.

 

[JTQ]

I think both Blade-Tech http://shop.blade-tech.com/blade-tech-holsters-c-1.html and Garrett http://garrettindustries.mybigcommerce.com would have something. I suspect Safariland would also have something, but I'm not that familiar with their line-up.

 

[9mmepiphany]

unless I'm misunderstanding the equipment requirements page at Gunsite, which is linked below

You are. It reads, "Small flashlight with pressure switch"...that means a small hand held flashlight. You won't have a use for a weapon mounted light (WML) as they are going to teach you the 3 most common methods to use a handheld flashlight with your gun. They'll also explain why you don't need a WML or night sights at all.

If you don't want to spend a lot of money, I can highly recommend the Foursevens QT2A-AA 2XAA 205-Lumen Quark Tactical...which you can get from Amazon for about $55

A quality OWB retention holster (prefer thumb-drive, but open to suggestions, as I've never actually used a TD) that's made for belt (not paddle).

I have to admit that I'd never heard the term "thumb drive" applied to a holster before. A quick Google revealed that if is a named used by 5.11 for their rotating hood holster.

Funny, given your request, I was going to recommend a Safariland SLS holster, specifically the 6280 Level II, which originated the thumb released rotating hood



The last time I attended the 250 class at Gunbsite, I used the Blade-Tech that JTQ referred to in the post above. Their On The Waistband holster worked great for the five days...there wasn't any additional retention needed...just choose the Tek-Loc or Strinray belt attachment (about $60)

 

[JTQ]

9mmepiphany brought up the mounted light vs handheld light issue, but I'd like to ask about your need for a retention holster. Is that something required by the course, or is there some other reason for your desire for a retention holster. I've not taken any of these training courses, but wouldn't an open top holster work better for a class that I'd assume would require lots of drawing and reholstering. Wouldn't that retention device tend to get in the way, and at the very least be an annoyance.

For your handheld light, if that's what you decide to go with, most of the kydex makers have a light holder for the more common lights (Surefire 6P, G2, etc).

 

[Sam1911]

JTQ, he said he wanted to start open carrying, thus a retention holster is a good idea.

 

[Buzznrose]

I've taken 3 pistol classes at Gunsite. I posted a pretty extensive review of both the 250 and 350 classes if you run a search "Gunsite" here at THR.

I strongly recommend a simple Kydex OWB holster. I had mine made by these guys a couple years ago. Suggest you contact them to ensure they are still in business:
http://www.defensiveconcealment.com/defensive-holsters/

These folks also make a quality holster:
http://www.forestcitytactical.com

As far as a light, I do not recommend a weapon mounted light unless that is what you use. Bring what you use for the training.

For a handheld light, they are not big on the extremely bright lights because when you use them, you can lose your night vision. A good, small, 120-150 lumen light with a pronounced switch will work fine. You want a light that is easy to activate momentarily, and small enough that you carry at all times. Hint...use it in the Shoot House during your simulator...

As far as gear, being 4-6 magazines, a double mag pouch, and an Uplula loader. Sunscreen, cleaning stuff, eyes and ears, and you'll be good. Recommend the magnified ear protection, as its good to hear commands.

Gunsite is top notch in every way. Staff is excellent, meals are very good, pro shop is well stocked and prices are good.

Enjoy!

 

[Buzznrose]

9mmepiphany brought up the mounted light vs handheld light issue, but I'd like to ask about your need for a retention holster. Is that something required by the course, or is there some other reason for your desire for a retention holster. I've not taken any of these training courses, but wouldn't an open top holster work better for a class that I'd assume would require lots of drawing and reholstering. Wouldn't that retention device tend to get in the way, and at the very least be an annoyance.

For your handheld light, if that's what you decide to go with, most of the kydex makers have a light holder for the more common lights (Surefire 6P, G2, etc).

There is a ton of holster work, so yes, retention holsters are only used by any LEO's who bring their duty rigs. Otherwise, homemade Kydex or Bladetech type holsters are most popular. Some 1911 shooters run leather rigs.

For your light, I've not seen more than a couple holsters. Most folks wear cargo style pants, and their light is in a pocket. You have no need to get to a light quickly during class.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Hint...use it in the Shoot House during your simulator...

I'll bite, why?

When I ran it there was plenty of natural light...I'm not even sure I remember any heavy shadows

As far as gear, being 4-6 magazines, a double mag pouch, and an Uplula loader.

When talking about magazines... the more, the better. I think I was working with a rotation of 12. The Uplula loader is a thumb saver

 

[Buzznrose]

Hint...use it in the Shoot House during your simulator...

I'll bite, why?

When I ran it there was plenty of natural light...I'm not even sure I remember any heavy shadows

Quote:
As far as gear, being 4-6 magazines, a double mag pouch, and an Uplula loader.
When talking about magazines... the more, the better. I think I was working with a rotation of 12. The Uplula loader is a thumb saver


Shoot house light: Your performance in the shoot house is factored into your grade, and using a light to scan dark areas like behind doors, closets, etc., demonstrates a higher level of proficiency. May be instructor centric, but they stressed flashlights were not just for night ops.

Agree more mags is better, but if OP is running Glock 19 with 15 round mags, that is equivalent to two 1911 7 round mags, so 3 mags would be minimum, 6 max needed. I carried three g23 mags (13 rounds) and one g22 15 round mag. I did always keep a handful of bullets in my pocket, but they pace the class for the 1911 guys, who typically have 4-6 eight round magazines.

 

[JTQ]

Sam1911 wrote,
JTQ, he said he wanted to start open carrying, thus a retention holster is a good idea.

Thanks, I'm sure I read that before my first post, which is why I didn't comment then. I forgot about that part before making my subsequent post. I guess that forgetfulness is getting to me.

I would also probably carry a retention holster of some kind if I were open carrying.

 

[JShirley]

I generally don't think open carry is a great idea unless you're doing something like hunting, where you're not near a lot of people.

I'm not certain a retention holster is going to be the best choice for GunSite. If you're using one of a few popular models, BladeTech has some extremely well-priced holsters. Note: this is a "paddle", but it's made where the belt can be threaded through the paddle, if you choose, making it much more stable.

I know when I went through 250, I thought I was going to "train as I fight", and draw from concealment every time. I quickly discovered that a cover garment in a high-speed, high-draw-count class was a safety concern.

As for lights, I strongly suggest the ElZetta Designs ZFL-M60. This isn't an inexpensive light, but it is the best hand-held light I've ever seen. I would (and do) take it over my numerous SureFires every day.

More info from ElZetta's site. I prefer the high/low model. On the 15-lumen setting, it will last for over 2 days of constant running.

John

 

[Bobson]

You won't have a use for a weapon mounted light (WML) as they are going to teach you the 3 most common methods to use a handheld flashlight with your gun. They'll also explain why you don't need a WML or night sights at all.

I appreciate the clarification. I assumed they wanted students to bring a WML with a pressure switch. I was always under the impression that a WML was more efficient than carrying a handheld flashlight, but that was just an assumption I picked up somewhere. I'm definitely looking forward to this aspect of the course, as it's obvious I'm going to learn a lot.

I have to admit that I'd never heard the term "thumb drive" applied to a holster before. Funny, given your request, I was going to recommend a Safariland SLS holster

When I wrote that I had a "thumb-drive holster" in mind, I was actually thinking of Safariland, but wasn't quite sure about it. IIRC, Safariland makes a holster with a sort of button or lever that's activated with the drawing thumb, which releases the firearm. I can't seem to find that holster now, but I thought it was called a thumb-drive. My mistake there.

There is a ton of holster work, so yes, retention holsters are only used by any LEO's who bring their duty rigs.

The reason I had in mind to bring a retention holster was because I thought it would be beneficial to "train as I'll fight," as John put it in his reply. However, it seems as though those of you with experience at these courses find that less than optimal, so I clearly need to rethink that. I definitely appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experience with me.

I generally don't think open carry is a great idea unless you're doing something like hunting, where you're not near a lot of people.

I know when I went through 250, I thought I was going to "train as I fight", and draw from concealment every time. I quickly discovered that a cover garment in a high-speed, high-draw-count class was a safety concern.

I'm not quite sure I'm going to OC, it's just something I've had on my mind, and I thought it would be beneficial to get a retention holster JIC, so that if I ever do OC, I have the best holster for it. However, like I mentioned in reply to Buzznrose, those of you with experience at this type of course have definitely shed some light on it in a way I hadn't expected, and I'll certainly be taking that into consideration.

Regarding the suggestions for lights, I appreciate them all. In light of (no pun intended) 9mmepiphany saying I'll be taught why I don't need a WML, I'll probably pick up a less expensive light (such as the one 9mmepiphany linked), for now at least, and reassess my needs after the course, once I've been educated on the topic.

 

[9mmepiphany]

When I wrote that I had a "thumb-drive holster" in mind, I was actually thinking of Safariland, but wasn't quite sure about it. IIRC, Safariland makes a holster with a sort of button or lever that's activated with the drawing thumb, which releases the firearm. I can't seem to find that holster now, but I thought it was called a thumb-drive. My mistake there.

You might be thinking about a Safariland ALS such as the 6377.

The ALS requires that you pull a tab backward, while the SLS requires that you push down and forward

 

[Sam1911]

I was always under the impression that a WML was more efficient than carrying a handheld flashlight, but that was just an assumption I picked up somewhere.

It is also a lot more limiting, and potentially dangerous. You can't do many of the things with a WML that you can with a hand-held. For one thing, you're pointing A GUN at anything you're just trying to see. That's impolite...

Second, of course, your bright beacon of light is right in front of you whenever you're holding the gun. There may be times you don't want the light to be right in front of your body or face.

Further, it can be a lot better to be activating the light's switch with your support hand, rather than trying to squeeze or activate a button on your weapon, while trying to NOT activate that other "button" on your weapon, if you see what I mean. Too many things going on in the weapon hand is probably sub-optimal.

 

[Buzznrose]

This was a class report I did after my 350 class...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=681436

Have not written one on my last trip, a father/daughter 250 class that was a ball!

 

[Charlie Horse]

Check out the Safariland 6378. It sounds like exactly what you are looking for, comes with a paddle and belt loop, and can be had for $45-55. (I also like the lining.) I don't know how well the version set up for a light will work with the light dismounted, but for that price, buying 2 isn't prohibitively expensive.

http://www.holsters.com/concealment/holsters/model6378.asp