General run down on a few scopes?

[Roadwild17]

I was looking at some cheaper scopes, but you guys got to me to rethink my decision, and it looks like for ~$200 more I'm in a better category of scope. So here is a few I came up with:

Bushnell Elite 4200 & 6500 (probably the 6500)
Sightron SIII
Leupold vari-x or a mk 4 (but the mk4 are really pushing me past my comfort zone on the $$$) Possibly a mk2
Burris Xtreme (again a little on the $$$$ side)
Meopta Meostar R1
Countersniper
Nikon Monarch (if they would be more avaialble with a mil-dot)
Zeuss Conquest (again a little $$$$)


Whats the word on the above?

Additionally, Im looking for something in the 4-16 power range, but 2.5-12 or so would be fine also. Its going on a 20" AR. I want to go with more power than a 2-8 because I think I will likely keep this scope for a very long time.

I was looking at the $4-500 price point, but the $700ish opens up some better possibilities I think.

 

[benzy2]

Not a complaint in the group. They are all quality and for most people probably hard to determine a difference in optical view. Some scopes have more adjustment range or a certain feature over one of the others but for the most part they are fairly similar. Some people will have had good experiences with one brand and bad with another but lemons happen everywhere. I have never heard anyone complain about getting too nice of a scope but more than I can count have I heard people complain about cheap scopes. Stepping up to the next tier is always a good thing if the budget allows.

 

[Roadwild17]

More adjustment, good point. What would be about average?

 

[jmr40]

While the more expensive scopes are better I could be perfectly happy with a Leupold VX-II series scope. I do not deny the others are better, but for my money this scope, or something comparable, does all I need a scope to do.

On the low end I have been impressed with the Nikons and for around $450 I cannot imagine needing anything better than a Zeiss Conquest.

For the money you will get more scope for the money with a 3-9X-40mm scope. That is the most common, and competition forces the scope companies to price them more agressively.

I personally prefer scopes on the lower end of the power range. I find 2X-3X is used far more often than anything above 7X.

 

[benzy2]

Not sure what each brand runs other than Bushnell. They are very limited in their range of adjustment. They do have rain guard which is a great help on a hunting scope in adverse weather. Not real sure on the rest. Most of the adjustment ranges should be listed on the manufacturers website. Like I said they all have ups and downs which need to be weighed but optically and construction wise they all should be great scopes.

 

[MCMXI]

Roadwild17, I've got quite a few Mark 4s and they're excellent, entry level high end scopes. However, they're quite a bit more expensive (almost twice!!) than the other models you mentioned. I just ordered a Zeiss Conquest but you may have a hard time finding what you want in the $700 range. The RZ reticles are some of the best in the industry (and can be calibrated to your bullet's mv) so if you can afford it, get a Zeiss such as this one.

http://www.swfa.com/pc-9782-259-zeiss-45-14x44-conquest-rifle-scope.aspx

Some might recommend the Bushnell Elite series but I wouldn't. Any company that offers a 30mm tube but then only provides 47 MOA vertical adjustment is verging on incompetent and won't be getting my business!! Their web site is a mess if you're trying to find specs on what they offer. I get the impression that they've only read about long-range shooting and haven't actually done any ... maybe not surprising for a Japanese company.

 

[MCMXI]

More adjustment, good point. What would be about average?

My Mark 4s have 84 MOA (confirmed by me) of vertical adjustment!! The Mark 4s have a 30mm tube like the Bushnell Elite but the Elite only has 47 MOA of vertical adjustment ... go figure!! The Zeiss that I just ordered has 64" of vertical adjustment @ 100 yards (according to Zeiss) which is about 61 MOA ... and that's a 1" tube!!!

If you're buying a typical hunting scope then all of this is moot, but if your game is "tactical" or F-Class or any other long-range shooting application then it's a big deal.

Glass quality is one of the most misrepresented aspects of rifle scopes and basically, good enough is good enough and it's the other features that are important. Return to zero, accuracy of adjustments, range of adjustments, reticle type, reticle alignment, eye relief, size, weight, reliability, warranty etc.

 

[win71]

Meopta

I have a pair of Meopta binoculars. They are every bit as clear and bright as Swarovski. Google for their web site. It is an interesting and quality company. .The 4x or 6x fixed power is my next purchase. I have Leupolds, Redfields, Leika’s, Zeiss Conquest, Fujinon, Weaver , Burris, and probably others I can’t remember. They all have good qualities. The Meopta is better.

 

[browningguy]

I like most of the ones you have mentioned although I have not seen a countersniper. If a 2.5-10x50 would suit your needs I can highly recommend this Weaver Classic Extreme, 30mm tube, side mount AO, lit reticle. I just put one on my 6x45 a few weeks ago and it is a lot of glass for the money. Natchez has them on special right now.

Linky

 

[MCMXI]

browningguy, I know we're supposed to be in a recession but $878.66 now $289.95 ... COME ON!!! What do you make of that?

 

[Roadwild17]

To bad its a German A4 and not a mill dot.

So weaver is another to look at also.

Also I don't know what is withs countersniper, but every time I see them at a gunshow, they never have a price. The guy talks to you for a little than says something like "I can let this one go for XXXX today only" just seams a little strange for me.

 

[browningguy]

I got the illuminated crosshair model before they sold out, but I hunt with some No. 4 German's and they work really well at dusk and dawn. This model is a closeout I believe, and they never sold close to the suggested retail. However you can find them at some big name dealers for $450-500, it's quite a bargain for the quality of the glass.

 

[CB900F]

Roadwild17;

There are some things you want to be aware of with the Leupold MK 2 and 4 scopes. For instance, with the MK2 3-9X mil-dot, the adjustments are in 1/2 MOA increments, not the standard 1/4. Some MK4's will have 1 MOA adjustments. The MK2 hunter has 1/4 adjustments, but then you lose the target turret for windage. Be aware that you really have to study the specs in order to tell what you're going to get, Leupold isn't making it easy on you in the literature.

Nikon makes a 2.5-10X mil-dot in the new Monarch series. I haven't seen one, but am very happy with the older Monarch mil-dot's that I do have.

The Zeiss Conquest has truly superior glass IMHO. I have a 3.5-10X mil-dot Conquest & couldn't be happier. I'll probably buy a Zeiss 3-9X mil-dot for a custom gun I'm having built at this time.

I just tried twice to get a Leupold the way I want it & have had nothing but problems. Pity, they used to be a pretty damn good outfit to do business with.

900F

 

[BornAgainBullseye]

I'd look at the Nikon buckmaster it has bdc and may have mil dot as well. Side focus and a few different choices of magnifications. They can be had for around $299.

 

[deerhunter61]

I love my Zeiss Conquests but I do believe they have gotten a little pricey of the last couple of years...in fact due to this I think a lot of stores have stopped carrying them as much...or at least reduced their selection.

 

[Maverick223]

*Bushnell Elite 4200 & 6500 (probably the 6500) - consensus is the 4200 is better than the 6500 (both look pretty good to me)
*Sightron SIII - good stuff for the money, and the SII is good too
*Leupold vari-x or a mk 4 (but the mk4 are really pushing me past my comfort zone on the $$$) Possibly a mk2 - don't like em'...made in CHINA
*Burris Xtreme (again a little on the $$$$ side) - good stuff
*Meopta Meostar R1 - good reviews, but I haven't seen one
*Countersniper - don't like...knock off of the Tasco SuperSniper (which are very good for the money BTW)
*Nikon Monarch (if they would be more avaialble with a mil-dot) - One of the best for the money IMO, very good glass
*Ziess Conquest (again a little $$$$) - The absolute best for the money...best in class (and other classes)...best in show, take this one home...P.S.: he doesn't like to be called Zeuss

IMHO the Nikon is the best on a budget, but the Ziess wins hands down...there are scopes that cost $500 more that are worse!

so if you can afford it, get a Zeiss such as this one.

1858, don't be givin' away my scope...I need that one. BTW how is your 3-9x Ziess doing? (As if I don't know...I guess the only variable is the gorillas working for UPS...got it yet?)

 

[rangerruck]

I wouldn't throw out a Pentax either, and if this will be more of a hunting scope, I would not throw out a Shepperd as well.

 

[MCMXI]

1858, don't be givin' away my scope...I need that one. BTW how is your 3-9x Ziess doing? (As if I don't know...I guess the only variable is the gorillas working for UPS...got it yet?)

HA!! SWFA has plenty in stock!! The Zeiss will probably be here tomorrow. It's coming via USPS so it should be fine. The bases are on their way too so hopefully I'll have the scope mounted by the weekend.

I just tried twice to get a Leupold the way I want it & have had nothing but problems. Pity, they used to be a pretty damn good outfit to do business with.

That is a pity. I had to send one of my Mark 4s back twice (only one of six Mark 4s that I have that's had to go back) due to dust or some other foreign body on the reticle. Second time worked like a charm so all is good now. That particular one was on a 6lb rifle in .300WSM so a tough environment for any scope. I sent a Vari-X III back for the same problem about 12 years ago but they got that one right on the first attempt and it was perfect right up to the time that I sold it.

I notice that Zeiss has a lifetime TRANSFERABLE warranty like Leupold ... unlike Bushnell which is only good for the original purchaser. So if you're thinking about buying a used Bushnell you're on your own. Many here sell/trade their scopes so a transferable warranty can be a good thing.

 

[MCMXI]

There are some things you want to be aware of with the Leupold MK 2 and 4 scopes ... Some MK4's will have 1 MOA adjustments.

From the OP's original post I don't think that a Mark 4 is an option but just in case, here are the elevation/windage specs for the three variants.

M1 adjustments = 1/4 MOA elevation, 1/4 MOA windage
M2 adjustments = 1/2 MOA elevation, 1/2 MOA windage
M3 adjustments = 1 MOA elevation, 1/2 MOA windage

 

[benzy2]

*Leupold vari-x or a mk 4 (but the mk4 are really pushing me past my comfort zone on the $$$) Possibly a mk2 - don't like em'...made in CHINA

I didn't know any Leupold riflescope was made in China. I know there have been knock offs from China but I didn't think any legit Leupold riflescope was made in China. I'll have to call them about that tomorrow if I think about it. Hard to believe they went that route.

 

[MCMXI]

I didn't know any Leupold riflescope was made in China. I know there have been knock offs from China but I didn't think any legit Leupold riflescope was made in China. I'll have to call them about that tomorrow if I think about it. Hard to believe they went that route.

When I spoke to tech support at Leupold a few months ago to ask them about this very thing, I was told that the glass for most of their scopes is made in "Asia" at Leupold setup/established/run facilities. They specifically told me that they weren't outsourcing their glass, just having it made overseas ... semantics? The tubes are all made in the Oregon plant and most of the assembly is handled in Oregon. I have a Vari-X II that says "Made in the USA" on it but you won't find many, if any, Leupolds now that have that on them. "Assembled in the USA" doesn't sound as good.

 

[benzy2]

I had heard most all of their rifle scope glass came from Japan and was then assembled in the USA. Only a couple lines say Made in the USA anymore using USA glass. I just didn't think anything came from China instead of Japan.

 

[MCMXI]

Well, they told me ASIA and not specifically China. ASIA is a BIG continent so it could be anywhere.

 

[Uncle Mike]

Asia huh..... well that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy!

Just about all leupold glass is from.. dare I say it... overseas!

Jon(name changed to avoid legal action hehe) told us at the shot show how economical this overseas glass and components was, and that all the components were made to leupolds tolerances and standards... oh boy!

I don't care for leupold nowdays, however we still sell a fair number of leupold scopes... they don't make a bad scope, there are some better... some worse.

 

[benzy2]

Still to say their glass is from China is a big statement and unless you can prove that beyond the comment that it is from Asia it is a bit of mud slinging.