geocaching targets
- Thread starter taliv
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you're worried about someone digging up your target. I would say that this fear is not a big concern ... it really is unlikely to happen.
a much bigger concern is what LEO's are going to think if they see you doing this. I doubt that local sheriffs departments, or the DHS, is going to comprehend at all what your intentions are. think about it from their perspective. a strange guy digs an unknown object up on remote land, shoots it, and buries it again. what the HE** is he doing? at a bare minimum you will probaby have LEO's watching you, or even tracking you with drones. your new sport could easily be miscontrued as a training exercise for terrorism.
CA R
a much bigger concern is what LEO's are going to think if they see you doing this. I doubt that local sheriffs departments, or the DHS, is going to comprehend at all what your intentions are. think about it from their perspective. a strange guy digs an unknown object up on remote land, shoots it, and buries it again. what the HE** is he doing? at a bare minimum you will probaby have LEO's watching you, or even tracking you with drones. your new sport could easily be miscontrued as a training exercise for terrorism.
CA R
crazysccrmd
Member
In my many trips in the back country I have only seen a LE Ranger once, in Olympic National Park. I have never ran into any forest service rangers out in the mountains back country areas I prefer to get away in. I wouldn't be worried at all when doing this, completely legal to hike around and shoot a rifle in most places.
SniperJon
Member
Awesome idea, I'll have several set up in the next few months in northern Utah and western Wyoming
PJSprog
Member
This is freaking awesome. Perhaps it should be made a sticky, like the Rimfire Match.
For those of us in the Midwest and East, I suppose we need not have wide open expanses of land. A shot through the foothills of Missouri would be challenging as well.
For those of us in the Midwest and East, I suppose we need not have wide open expanses of land. A shot through the foothills of Missouri would be challenging as well.
"they would ideally be placed where casual passersby wouldn't notice them"
maybe I'm misunderstanding something. but when normal people play "geocaching" games - the object of their search is usually hidden in some way. it's like a buried treasure, or a hidden treasure. so if you do that with your targets, it's certainly going to look strange when you uncover some hidden or masked object and then shoot it.
if you're just talking about navigating to targets that are exposed using GPS, then what you've got is some sort of "outdoor range in the woods". in that case the major issue is this - how do you avoid accidentally killing a third party if you miss one of these targets and the bullet flies off and hits them?
CA R
maybe I'm misunderstanding something. but when normal people play "geocaching" games - the object of their search is usually hidden in some way. it's like a buried treasure, or a hidden treasure. so if you do that with your targets, it's certainly going to look strange when you uncover some hidden or masked object and then shoot it.
if you're just talking about navigating to targets that are exposed using GPS, then what you've got is some sort of "outdoor range in the woods". in that case the major issue is this - how do you avoid accidentally killing a third party if you miss one of these targets and the bullet flies off and hits them?
CA R
crazysccrmd
Member
By using commonsense when placing the target and when firing at it? It isn't hard to place a target so that it has a solid backstop, especially if you're also marking a designated point as the firing spot.
RustHunter87
Member
This time of year some "hunters" walk around and shoot allover the place with high powered rifles, at lest we know these targets will have a good backstop.
I put hunters in quotations as I consider knowing when a shot is safe and when not to take it part of being a real hunter these days.
I put hunters in quotations as I consider knowing when a shot is safe and when not to take it part of being a real hunter these days.
Normal geocaching doesn't have guns at all. So I guess straying from their traditions is acceptable.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
Sounds like a really neat concept.
I'd say you have a few hurdles with this that I'd like to list. They'd have to be addressed in your site and there MAY be some liability concerns involved. Maybe posted as part of a list of rules and etiquette.
1. Obviously the locations have to be in places where it's legal to access and shoot.
2. The targets must have a suitable backstop (or sufficient clear open range) and should be clearly visible as such. For example, it would NOT be a good idea to have a target in a wooded area where the shooter has no idea what lies in the woods beyond...be that domicile, livestock, or hikers.
3. Times for shooting ought to be specified. I'm thinking about "daylight hours only" type. Not only is night shooting a potential problem in some places, there's the safety aspect to think about.
4. Basic maintenance encouraged. Geo Cache people are generally expected to find a given cache and typically leave notes, small knick-knacks, and so forth as part of the fun. You ought to encourage people to assist in this by simple things such as repainting with a shot of spray paint, securing the target in place where feasable, or reporting deficiencies through the website for repairs. (I would not consider it too much effort to carry a can of white/orange spray paint for just this thing.)
5. People ought to be encouraged to "leave nothing but footprints"...remove all spent shell casings, and such. (No beer cans, food litter, damage to environment, blah, blah, blah.)
There isn't much of a liability concern for conventional geo caching activities, what with them typically being a hide-and-seek game with objects and such. But there might be some for target caching. Not being an attorney, I'm not sure what all this would entail.
Maybe this will take off and grow large enough that I'll be able to participate near where I frequent! That'd be neat as heck!
I'd say you have a few hurdles with this that I'd like to list. They'd have to be addressed in your site and there MAY be some liability concerns involved. Maybe posted as part of a list of rules and etiquette.
1. Obviously the locations have to be in places where it's legal to access and shoot.
2. The targets must have a suitable backstop (or sufficient clear open range) and should be clearly visible as such. For example, it would NOT be a good idea to have a target in a wooded area where the shooter has no idea what lies in the woods beyond...be that domicile, livestock, or hikers.
3. Times for shooting ought to be specified. I'm thinking about "daylight hours only" type. Not only is night shooting a potential problem in some places, there's the safety aspect to think about.
4. Basic maintenance encouraged. Geo Cache people are generally expected to find a given cache and typically leave notes, small knick-knacks, and so forth as part of the fun. You ought to encourage people to assist in this by simple things such as repainting with a shot of spray paint, securing the target in place where feasable, or reporting deficiencies through the website for repairs. (I would not consider it too much effort to carry a can of white/orange spray paint for just this thing.)
5. People ought to be encouraged to "leave nothing but footprints"...remove all spent shell casings, and such. (No beer cans, food litter, damage to environment, blah, blah, blah.)
There isn't much of a liability concern for conventional geo caching activities, what with them typically being a hide-and-seek game with objects and such. But there might be some for target caching. Not being an attorney, I'm not sure what all this would entail.
Maybe this will take off and grow large enough that I'll be able to participate near where I frequent! That'd be neat as heck!
gonefishin1
Member
awesome idea!!! I am in if any make it to texas. If any other participants are in south east texas I might even try to place a couple in the national forest if its legal, guess I need to check on that.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
And no sleeping in the shade behind the targets for homeless people, or tired hikers!!
Sounds like a recipe for disaster, sooner, or later to me.
You have absolutely no control in public land over who or what may wander into the impact area.
Despite all the posted hours, or warning signs in the world.
rc
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I see the difference as:
Going out there and setting up targets at whatever range on the day you are shooting them.
And hopefully looking around the area for things you couldn't see from the firing point.
As opposed to sneaking up on an unknown target you didn't set out that day with a GPS coordinate.
And then blasting away at it from a couple hundred yards or more away without going out there and looking around again.
4th. rule of gun safety:
4. Be Sure Of Your Target And What's Beyond It
You could be pretty sure it was safe the day you set up the target.
But you could never ever be sure it was safe after that.
Unless you went out there and looked around again the day you shoot at the target.
That's the difference.
rc
Going out there and setting up targets at whatever range on the day you are shooting them.
And hopefully looking around the area for things you couldn't see from the firing point.
As opposed to sneaking up on an unknown target you didn't set out that day with a GPS coordinate.
And then blasting away at it from a couple hundred yards or more away without going out there and looking around again.
4th. rule of gun safety:
4. Be Sure Of Your Target And What's Beyond It
You could be pretty sure it was safe the day you set up the target.
But you could never ever be sure it was safe after that.
Unless you went out there and looked around again the day you shoot at the target.
That's the difference.
rc
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Alot of that is going to depend on location. Heavily wooded areas would probably not be the best choice. Somewhere where you have to fire over a road or even a gully where you cannot see your entire line of fire is again a bad idea.
That still leaves lots of places, especially out west. Wooded areas, a large clearing with a hill or other natural berm works. A previous logged or burned area might be ideal as those are less popular for hikers.
Rule 4 has to be taken into account when choosing target and firing point. It also needs to be expanded to be sure of the sides of your firing cone. Be sure that you will see things entering it before they actually enter it.
That still leaves lots of places, especially out west. Wooded areas, a large clearing with a hill or other natural berm works. A previous logged or burned area might be ideal as those are less popular for hikers.
Rule 4 has to be taken into account when choosing target and firing point. It also needs to be expanded to be sure of the sides of your firing cone. Be sure that you will see things entering it before they actually enter it.
RCmodel, this is different from hunting how? I think it sounds safer, actually. When I shoot a deer I don't go tell the deer where to stand, then make a 360-degree check for a few hundred yards around the area to make sure it's safe to shoot it. I see the animal, I look at what is between it and me, I look at what I can see behind it, I compare that information to what I know about the area I am hunting in, and if it's safe to shoot at the animal then I do it.
If I am ever able to participate in this little project, I will be applying the same logic. I'm going to check out the area on satellite imagery so I'm familiar with the terrain and what is downrange before I go find the target and shoot it. I'm going to spend some time observing the area. If I decide it's necessary I may even go downrange and check out the target area since I don't think there's much chance of spooking a steel plate. And just as in any other situation, if I don't feel it's going to be safe to make a shot, I'm not going to make one.
I guess I still believe that some things can be governed by big boy rules, but maybe I'm wrong about that. . .
If I am ever able to participate in this little project, I will be applying the same logic. I'm going to check out the area on satellite imagery so I'm familiar with the terrain and what is downrange before I go find the target and shoot it. I'm going to spend some time observing the area. If I decide it's necessary I may even go downrange and check out the target area since I don't think there's much chance of spooking a steel plate. And just as in any other situation, if I don't feel it's going to be safe to make a shot, I'm not going to make one.
I guess I still believe that some things can be governed by big boy rules, but maybe I'm wrong about that. . .
45_auto
Member
rcmodel said:
Don't most people just call that "hunting"?
RetiredUSNChief
Member
The difference is in terms of "liability", which is a point that concerns me.
If you set up a target somewhere and shoot it, then there isn't any personal liability on anybody else for the consequences...or personal liability on yourself for somebody else you don't know coming up and shooting it because you control all aspects of it.
But if YOU set up a target somewhere and LEAVE it, then invite others to come along afterwards and SHOOT it, especially on property you don't OWN, THEN there is a liability concern.
Personally, I'd LOVE to take part in a geotargeting exercise...but I'd darn well not want someone like taliv to suffer the legal consequences that might fall out because he was held liable for somebody else who moved a target, overshot a target, got injured because they took a shot too close to a steel target, etc.
jim in Anchorage
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After reading this I feel bad for people who don't live in Alaska. Way to much use of the word "allowed" here.
Seems we'd just have to treat shooters as though they are adults. We all know the safety rules. The information provided should come out and state things like: "Do not fire toward the west at this target. There is a ranch nearby". Whoever places the target needs to try and make certain there is sufficient backstop.
ECVMatt
Member
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- Jan 7, 2004
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- 2,867
Well I have to apologize as I was not able to place a target this weekend. It seems like lots of folks took advantage of the long weekend to ride and shoot in the desert. The spot I wanted to place a target was already occupied. I will try again in two weeks. I will try to post a picture tonight near the location, but it is very safe to shoot in, OK with BLM, and used regularly for shooting.
I can understand some folks reservations about shooting on public land, but unless you have been out west it might be hard to fathom. In CA, we have hundreds of miles of open desert to shoot in. The desert is not flat, but has many small mountains, hills, and ravines to stop bullets. It is very remote, so no need to worry about random homeless or others. We always try to circle our backstop to check for vehicles before we shoot.
I was going to post a target at a spot where you climb into the rocks, lay prone, and shoot through a hole in the rocks at a nearby hill. Of course you could always just shoot from the base of the rocks. We call it hole in the wall.
I hope to try again in two weeks.
I can understand some folks reservations about shooting on public land, but unless you have been out west it might be hard to fathom. In CA, we have hundreds of miles of open desert to shoot in. The desert is not flat, but has many small mountains, hills, and ravines to stop bullets. It is very remote, so no need to worry about random homeless or others. We always try to circle our backstop to check for vehicles before we shoot.
I was going to post a target at a spot where you climb into the rocks, lay prone, and shoot through a hole in the rocks at a nearby hill. Of course you could always just shoot from the base of the rocks. We call it hole in the wall.
I hope to try again in two weeks.
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