German Shepard - Opinions Wanted/Needed - Very interested

[Sean Dempsey]

I have become fixated on getting a big dog. I grew up from the instant I was born til about 17 years old with ALWAYS having a pair of full-bred black labs in the house. They were my dads dogs he took everywhere, he worked construction, so they were the old "back of the truck, jobsite dogs" and at home there were just totally awesome. Fun, loving, never a problem. We had 4 total, each living about 12 years, staggered about every 5-6 years? All died of old age Of course, we lived on the edge of a decent sized desert, probably 10-11 acres right in the middle of our little town, so the dogs had unlimited backyard area, and we didn't have any fences back then (rural utah in the early 80's +++good). This was back when dogs were usually "neighboorhood dogs".

I appreciate a fullsize dog. I love em. My wife brought home a Yorkie, about 2 months old, a few weeks ago. After about 2 weeks, we found a new home for it. Couldn't stand it. I never wanted it, but she said she'd take care of it.

Well, I ended up being the one who had to put up with the incessant yapping and bullcrap that comes with a rat-dog. Not my thing.

But now, after being on these boards for a while, I am really wanting a big dog. A black lab would be good, but the german shepard is what I am fixated on (those are my ONLY 2 considerations for breeds, fyi).

Here are my factors to help you analyze the situation:

1 - I have a house with a frontyard and a small back/side yard. Big enough for a dog to live comfortably, but not big enough to play in much. I DO have a park in my subdivision (its a closed community) less than 100 yards down my street. I live in the suburbs more or less, and there is plenty of open space within walking or a short drive distance. My neighborhood is very dog-walk friendly.

2 - I have an adult cat that is a permanent family member. Extremely well mannered. Declawed. sleeps on my pillow next to my head every night.

3 - I have a 10 month old baby boy. Now, my dad had his 2 labs since before I was born, and I don't recall any problems with me or my brother growing up with big dogs as babies.

4 - I do not own a truck or SUV... we have 2 cars. I want a truck though. I have no problem with the "dirtiness" dogs bring, he can ride in the front seat covered in mud for all I care. I treat animals like people, so he/she is more than welcome to come with me anywhere I can legally take a dog, the mall.. restaurants... whatever

5 - our house is empty from 9-5

6 - I want to train the dog to be a family dog, but have enough sense to be a relatively good watchdog at nights and a protective dog when out and about. I also would intend to train it pretty good with numerous commands. I had good experiences trianing my black labs to voice commands. Plus, I can do it in german.


So that's the long and the short of it. What do you all think? Did I leave any factors out? If this is the wrong forum, please move it somewhere more appropriate. This is a big decision for me and I don't want to mistreat a possible new family member by getting a dog when conditions aren't ideal.

Thanks.

 

[bender]

the smartest dog I ever owned was a German Shepherd (back in the 1980s). They're naturally protective of their family, and good with small kids, from what I know.

If I could pick one breed to own, that would be it. However, they shed ALOT, and the wife doesn't like tumbleweeds of doghair blowing around the house.

we have a Great Dane pup now. he's 8 months old, and 100 pounds of solid muscle. He'll get to be around 150+. Short hair, hardly any shedding = happy wife. GD's are "big babies" though.

 

[1 old 0311]

I am on my 3rd Shepard. If you bring them into a family when they are young they will 'adopt' your family. They are as gentle as a lamb, with family members, as loyal as a Boy Scout, and as fearless as a Marine with a attitude. I was at a friends farm a few years back and one of his cows got too close to me. My six month old Shepard was on that cow like a Hobo on a ham sandwitch.
There are more laid back dogs, and more aggressive. Shepards are the PERFECT combination.

 

[WolfMansDad]

5 - our house is empty from 9-5

Get both a lab and a shepard! That way, if you have to leave them at home during the day, they will keep each other company. Dogs aren't cats. They need to be around people or other dogs most of the time.

 

[Cosmoline]

Not all GSD's shed constantly. The sable ones tend to "molt" on a seasonal basis like a wolf, which looks pretty ugly but is a lot easier to keep clean. I would strong advise against getting an American Shepherd bred to AKC standards. These tend to be taller, narrower in profile with "pointy" heads and very low-slung backsides. They are often described as walking on their hocks because their legs are bent down so much.

The ones to look for are working line GSDs. These tend to be shorter, stockier and with a more massive head and jaws. The males are more distinct from the females and have big chests and ruffs. Their color patterns are more variable, and include black and tan, sable, bi-color and a spectrum of reds, browns and blacks. No whites, however. And few long hairs. They should have a double coat of hair.

I've been around both types of GSD's and they are essentially different breeds. The AKC has destroyed what was good about the original WWI era dogs and kept only blind aggression. They tend to go for sucker bites and can be dangerous to have around.

Hip problems are possible with all GSD's, but generally speaking the closer you are to the ORIGINAL breed standard of an agile, low profile and stocky dog (more like a muscular malinois) the fewer problems you will have. Unfortunately there's a "bigger is better" notion in the US which favors oversized GSD's and that's helping to drive the hip problems.

If you're buying a pup get a hip guarantee and if you're buying an older dog make sure they have certified hips.

Mind you all purebreds in the US will have AKC "papers," but this does not mean they were all bred to AKC breed standards. AKC simply has a de facto monopoly on registration.

Here's a little female huppy I was socializing recently:

And here's my old buddy Cohen, who is about the best looking GSD I know of and the undisputed lord of all he surveys and sire of all pups:

 

[Sean Dempsey]

2 dogs, wow haha. lets see what the wife thinks of that.

she went from a "no" to now negotiating. She wants laser hair removal on her legs and a new purse (about 2000 for all of it).

Hmm.

 

[bender]

Get both a lab and a shepard! That way, if you have to leave them at home during the day, they will keep each other company. Dogs aren't cats. They need to be around people or other dogs most of the time.

that's a good point, I agree. Dogs are social animals, and get lonely.

 

[Yakko]

We have a Golden Retriever. We adopted him two years ago when my daughter was two, our dog was seven. He will tolerate everything she does, likes cats and other dogs who don't start something first. He will not tolerate anyone who is uninvited, no one gets near my daughter that he doesn't know.

Before we got him we checked out which dogs are best with small kids, bird dogs were at the top of the list. Shepards are great, but I'd lean towards the Lab.

I'd recommend not getting a dog, though, if it's going to be alone from 9 to 5 that is a lot of time to be alone for something as social as a dog. (Two would remedy that problem.)

I'd wait a year or two and let your son and the dog pick each other.

 

[rev214]

get two dogs...

get two dogs...
i have two shelties (a male and a female) that play and wrestle and chase each other everyday...

 

[Cosmoline]

Get a GSD and a rat terrier. The one can plot world domination while the other acts as muscle.

 

[ilbob]

Get what you are happy with. There are downsides to either breed. Both need exercise and work. A smallish yard is probably not the best place for either, but both breeds are pretty adaptable.

Both breeds are pretty family friendly, although I might give the nod to a Lab in that area. Both need a fair amount of brushing to remove stray hair, but nothing that a few minutes a day won't take care of.

Dogs of all sizes get bored and will cause you no end of grief if they are not exercised regularly. That means you need to spend time with whatever dog you get every day. Your dad took care of that problem by bringing them to work with him. You may not have that option and will need to reserve time every day for the dog.

I would not fixate on one particular breed, unless you want some special talent that particular breed excels at (like hunting dogs). Consider a dog from your local pound or rescue organization. It is a lot of work to house train a puppy. It is much easier to just get an adult dog that is already house trained.

 

[LaEscopeta]

relatively good watchdog at nights and a protective dog when out and about.

A search will reveal numerous dog threads here on THR, (many declared off-topic and closed.) I think the general consensus of the Strategy and Tactics on-topic threads is it is easy to get a good watch dog, but protection or attack dogs require a high skill level of the trainer/owner, a lot of time to train and control, and potential legal problems if control is lost.

I have a house with a frontyard and a small back/side yard.

Might want to consider one of those radio collar “invisible fences” to let the dog roam in the front and back yards (if you community has restrictions fencing in the front yard.) Need to train the dog for the “invisible fences” to work, but in our case I think it has made our dog more territorial and a better watch dog.

 

[vynx]

Dogs are great, they are pack animals and my opinion is they do better with at least 2.

All I would add to what has been said is for either of the two breeds you chose is EXERCISE.

Those breeds need daily exercise - i think you should figure they (or even one) will need an hour every day of exercise and more time for attention/training - with a new baby do you have enough time for this?

I have Basset Hounds and they are pretty sedate for dogs but a one hour walk is just a warmup to them. Seriously, if I would walk around the neighborhood for hours they'd love it.

Whatever you decide enjoy.

 

[Mornard]

My family has had several GSDs. Great dogs, as were the labs, Great Danes, Brittany, mutts, more mutts, etc. If you treat a dog well, they will be a great dog. It is imperative that the dog live with your family - that way he will be part of your pack and socialize as such. A kennel only dog is useless to me for many reasons.

Two dogs has always worked better for us than not. A GSD and a Great Dane was our combo several times. Labs work good too with GSD, but I'll tell you, if you have to have a smaller dog and a larger one (easier to sell the deal to your wife? - a Dachshund has great heart for a little dog, and has a hunting background.

Just my opinions, but I'm stuck with them...

 

[Sean Dempsey]

I'd love to exercise them. It gets pretty HOT here in the summer, in the 105-110+ range, but winters are great, no snow. Probably have to stick to mornings and nights in the summer, and then let them chill inside for the day. I can take lunch at home to let them out and run a bit too, I live really close.

My wife is a former/future marathon runner and would LOVE to run the dogs with her every morning for an hour. Plus, our baby loves stroller strolls, and I'd take the dogs for that too. And, I'd feel safer with the wife running with 2 dogs and her XD-SC.

Animals are parts of my family for sure. They have the same rights as people do in my house.

The dog doesn't need to be specifically trained to attack or defend. Most smart, well raised dogs know trouble when they see it, I believe. A good watchdog and an intimidating look, loud growl/bark is enough for me. If the dog was ever in the situation where I NEEDED it to attack/defend, I'm not gonna be far behind, and I'll be packing heat, so..


At any rate...I found some people selling AKC pups that I'm going to look at right now. They are papered purebred, and the sellers have both parents and histories. I think I might try and get 2 for the price of 1... who knows...

 

[roo_ster]

Sean:

Some good advice given here.

I'll amplify the "get two dogs." I found that two dogs get into less trouble than one dog, especially if they are staggered in age & sex. Two pups at the same time is a difficult problem.

In your case, you might not want to shell out big bucks for two working line GSDs. Well, getting a decent-sized older dog from the pound/shelter/rescue might be a way to go for step one. Breed is less important, here. Just be sure to bring a child along to see if hte dog is skittish 'round kids & check out the dog for temperment using the usual tests. A higher-energy breed/mutt to kepp up a working-line GSD is a thought, too.

Allow the pound pup to become acclimated to your home & take ownership...which will place your dog below you, your wife, your child, and your cat in the pack.

Then, get your pricey GSD as a pup in the opposite sex. The older dog will put the pup in its place and show it the ropes. I found it much easier to train a pup with an older, already trained dog around. Your new pup will be at the very bottom of the pack.

Good luck. We already had two German Shorthaired Pointers (older male & younger female) when my boy was born 23 months ago & my daughter was born 6 months ago. The two dogs are best buds and have taken to my boy very well. The male is especially good with him and the female loves the fact that he can throw a ball on demand. Of course, we had to be pretty firm at first, teaching the dogs their new place in the pack (below the kids).

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

If you join the military, as you suggest in your other thread, you are going to be gone for a few to several months. I have no idea what part of Utah you are in, but based on the description of the weather, I think you're options would probably be limited to joining the 222nd in the Guard. The shortest OSUT for Arty is 3 months (I think?). I would be concerned about getting a dog and then leaving for 3 months.

 

[RioShooter]

I've had over 20 dogs (all strays) over the last 25 years. I was lucky that one of them was a German Shepard. He was by far the best damn dog I've ever had. Smart, confident, kind, protective. From what a dog trainer saw in him after basic obedience, the trainer told me the dog could be sold for at least $10,000. I said, "No, thanks". In hundreds of walks, we were only challenged once by another dog. During that one incident, "Baron" placed his jaws on the neck of a 120# St. Bernard, and the dog took off running.

If you got a dog like "Baron", he would be priceless. He lived for 14 years and passed-on in 1995. He is still deeply missed.


If dogs don't go to heaven, then I want to go where they go when I die.

 

[Exmasonite]

As a veterinary student and having worked in animal hospitals for 10+ years, I have a couple of thoughts:

1) I'd be hard pressed to get a pure bred. Pure bred dogs are much more prone to congenital problems specific to a single breed (examples for GSD: hip dysplasia, elbow/shoulder problems, food allergy/skin problems, Pannus (eye problem)). The list goes on and on. Get a good shepard mix and while the problems can still occur, they occur with MUCH lower frequency.

2) if you're set on a GSD, do some homework. for one, expect to pay good money. 600+ for a GOOD dog. You should make sure that both parents have good health reports and good hips (hip dysplasia is HUGE problem in large breed dogs... basically, your dog can get crippling arthritis by 8 months of age). Most reputable breeders have their dogs' elbows and hips certified. Do your homework, get LOTS of good references. Also, you may have to be on a waiting list if they're a good breeder. Be patient. it's totally worth it for a good dog that will be healthy for 12+ years vs a genetic nightmare that you'll be pouring 1000's of dollars into. Good luck!

 

[Sean Dempsey]

Well, someone had some for sale in the want-ads.

These are AKC papered German Shepards. Both parents were there, and both were very healthy. The breeders had the parents as pets, and knew both of THEIR parents as well. One is a retired K-9. Both parent dogs were gorgeous, smart, and so well mannered. EDIT: also, the breeders had kids of all ages, from 9 months to 3 to 13. The dogs were very well behaved around them, and the breeders were VERY helpful, totally good people, rancher types.

So, I ended up getting them both for 800 bucks. I don't mind. So far, they've been home a few hours and already they're well behaved, adjusting, and having fun. They are already following me around, I am really really happy.

The brown/black is a male named Fisher (as in Sam Fisher...), the Grey is a female named Lulu (just sounded cool...). Since she is AKC papered, they said we can breed her and possibly sell the offspring, but I am not sure I'll breed them.

They are having a blast in the yard, digging, running around. Too bad it had to be rainy and muddy today, but they don't mind.

It feels good to have real dogs again, I am excited.

Here's some pics, hard to get them when they won't look at me:


PS: Yes, the 222nd is our outfit here in southern utah. They were gone for quite a while and just made a return recently.

 

[lepmik]

$600 is low for a GSD of German lineage from a good breeder. Expect $1200 and up from what I saw when I was looking for one.

I love my GSD. 1+ y.o. female. She is too smart, learns quickly, gets compliments on her stunning looks (not braggin, I ain't responsible for her looks!) from strangers on every walk, she has great drive, ADORES her family, and is protective when she needs to be. Any other time she's a big baby who wants nothing more than to be near either of her masters or near the Glorious Kitty with whom she is infatuated. Kitty has taken about a year to get comfortable enough to go near the dog, but it's getting better!

I will have nothing but GSDs from now on. She's like a child to me, without all the drawbacks--she's cheaper, was potty trained by a couple months old, and her training classes cost much less than a college education! She also earns her keep as a part of our home security system (which to keep this thread gun-related, is also augmented by a firearm )

The ONLY minus about GSDs is the shedding-- it's as bad as you've been told. Be prepared to brush the dog thoroughly every day, bathe it periodically, and vacuum your floors every other (if not every) day.

 

[Sharpdogs]

I have had mine for almost 8 years. I got her when she was 6 weeks old. I cannot say enough good things about her (my wife gets jealous). The only bad thing is the shedding, but your learn to live with it and the constant vacuuming. Mine has had no formal training unless you count puppy kindergarden. She is very protective and a great guard dog. She is not an attack dog. Her job is to warn me and she does it well. She has even woke me up in the middle of the night when I had low blood sugar. The only advice I can offer applies to all dogs. They are social animals. Do not get one as an alarm system or weapon. They are members of the family first and foremost. Your timing is perfect with a 10 month year old child your house is probably baby proof and puppy proof.

 

[JMusic]

Here's my pup. Samual Wolfgang Music

 

[El Tejon]

JMusic, there's a wolf on your lap!

 

[JMusic]

I'm 5' 10" 190lbs to give you some perspective. He weights 130 lbs. Friendly dog. Received a call one time from the UPS man while at work. He dropped off a package when he went back to get into his truck Sam was laying inside. I told him to look for his red ball "A Kong" and give it a throw. He did and ended up playing fetch for about 10 minutes. Quite a dog.
Jim