Getting a LAWFUL gun back from police in MASS?
- Thread starter theQman23
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mgkdrgn
Member
Defending yourself against grievous bodily harm / death is hardly analogous to recovering an item being held by the police as evidence in a criminal proceeding.
If the Mass State police want to get a "bug up their butt" on this issue, they will, and there isn't a whole lot the OP can do about it that won't cost him several times what the gun did. (Id wager it's cost him that already.)
If you are willing to front him a few grand to keep up the "good fight" I'm sure he would appreciate it.
Bottom line, he'll get it back when the Mass State Police are ready to give it back, and no sooner. (Kind of like a cold ... treat it and it will be gone in 7 to 10 days. Don't treat it and it will be gone in 7 to 10 days.) I agree it sucks, but reality often does.
Deanimator
Member
A PURELY monetary analysis was applied to justify allowing the MA State Police to steal. I applied the VERY same PURELY monetary analysis to self-defense against rape. If you shouldn't fight theft by the MA State Police because it would cost more than replacing the stolen item, why fight rape if the legal costs of resisting would exceed the medical costs of submitting?
How much is your right not to be assaulted or have your property stolen worth?
What's the ultimate cost of encouraging rape and theft by meekly submitting to them?
jaholder1971
Member
Okay, CWOF is what we call a Diversion here in Kansas.
Basically, the defendant agrees that the prosecutor's allegations are correct and he/she doesn't contest the charges. Despite whatever your attorney says, it's essentially a guilty plea in exchange for them eventually dismissing the charges if you do what they tell you to.
So what am I saying? The prosecutor said the OP was illegally carrying a gun and the OP agreed. Whether or not the prosecutor's right is irrelevant now and would not expect either the court, the prosecutor or the State Police to release the OP's weapon back to him after he willingly admitted to committing a crime with it.
These types of legal wranglings don't serve justice. They make the lawyers and the .gov richer, the innocent criminals and gives leniency to real criminals. The one and only time I had to answer (false) criminal charges I had to tell both the DA and my lawyer what they could do with their diversion and set a court date. The DA didn't have the evidence and my lawyer didn't make enough money, so they dropped the charges.
Basically, the defendant agrees that the prosecutor's allegations are correct and he/she doesn't contest the charges. Despite whatever your attorney says, it's essentially a guilty plea in exchange for them eventually dismissing the charges if you do what they tell you to.
So what am I saying? The prosecutor said the OP was illegally carrying a gun and the OP agreed. Whether or not the prosecutor's right is irrelevant now and would not expect either the court, the prosecutor or the State Police to release the OP's weapon back to him after he willingly admitted to committing a crime with it.
These types of legal wranglings don't serve justice. They make the lawyers and the .gov richer, the innocent criminals and gives leniency to real criminals. The one and only time I had to answer (false) criminal charges I had to tell both the DA and my lawyer what they could do with their diversion and set a court date. The DA didn't have the evidence and my lawyer didn't make enough money, so they dropped the charges.
winston smith
Member
Hire a lawyer. Keep your mouth shut and stop posting about it.
deadin
Member
He hasn't posted since June 24 (post #52). It's everybody else that won't let it die.
As of right now, we are still at a stand still. The police keep saying they will give the gun back in December after the cwof drops, but won't outline exactly how they're going to do it. It's all evasive cheap talk without any commitment on their part. Sounds like listening to a currect presidential speech.
My position still hasn't changed. I am prepared to spend WAY MORE THAN THE COST OF THE GUN TO STAND ON PRINCIPLE, because, after all, most of you appreciate it. I know that if you guys were in the same boat and had the money to fight it, I'd encourage you to do the right thing too.
As for hiring a lawyer and shutting up about it........ well.......... I already hired a lawyer, that's been done already. As for shutting up about it, (and thereby letting the gestapo illegally steal what is my lawful property, ) NOT A CHANCE!!!! I am becoming more and more ashamed of the direction my great country is going every single day, and if I shut up about it the my opposition wins. As long as there is free speech, (and frankly even if there wasn't,) I'll be telling my story in an effort to promote the 2nd amdn for the rest of my life.
-Quentin Mise
My position still hasn't changed. I am prepared to spend WAY MORE THAN THE COST OF THE GUN TO STAND ON PRINCIPLE, because, after all, most of you appreciate it. I know that if you guys were in the same boat and had the money to fight it, I'd encourage you to do the right thing too.
As for hiring a lawyer and shutting up about it........ well.......... I already hired a lawyer, that's been done already. As for shutting up about it, (and thereby letting the gestapo illegally steal what is my lawful property, ) NOT A CHANCE!!!! I am becoming more and more ashamed of the direction my great country is going every single day, and if I shut up about it the my opposition wins. As long as there is free speech, (and frankly even if there wasn't,) I'll be telling my story in an effort to promote the 2nd amdn for the rest of my life.
-Quentin Mise
Fryerpower
Member
In the even you never see your gun again, make sure you have a document of some sort to prove that they have it. At least that way when it ends up being used as a drop gun you can help lead it back to the police (and not to you!)
PLEASE when you use an acronym for the first time spell it out.
Continuance WithOut a Finding (CWOF). It took me a while to figure out what a CWOF was.
Good luck and get the NRA involved!
-Jim
PLEASE when you use an acronym for the first time spell it out.
Continuance WithOut a Finding (CWOF). It took me a while to figure out what a CWOF was.
Good luck and get the NRA involved!
-Jim
Deltaboy1984
Member
Keep fighting the good fight. I'm praying you get your gun back.
Hello everyone,
My lawyer sent me an email that the Mass state police finally responded to her. They claim that they are willing to release the Glock back to me in December, once the cwof is over, and that I don't even have to go back up there to get it. They are going to ship it to an ffl dealer in my home town, (at my expense of course) and I can pay a transfer fee, to re-aquire my own gun since the Mass police think they own in now, and once I pay the ffl transfer fee I can have it back, and that same serial number will be assigned to me again, and it'll show as though I purchased the same gun twice.
Two questions: One, once this is done do I have to wait another 30 days to buy my 2nd handgun, (I've been itching to buy another G27 just so I'll have two in case this ever happens again,) or will they waive the 30 days since I already bought this gun once?
Second question, I have to apply for my ccw in Maryland. Most Marylanders cant' get ccw because its a liberal leftist "may issue" state that requires proof of cash deposits and business ownership to get one without written evidence of a death threat. Well I've never been threatened, but I do meet the corporate owner cash deposit criteria, but one of the questions is "Have you ever been arrested on a gun charge?" Since I was found not guilty on two counts, and cwof on the third, should I have this all expunged, (that'll take a year or two I bet) before I apply for CCW in MD, or can I say, yes I was arrested but not convicted? If I say yes to being arrested and prove that I wasn't convicted do I stand a chance of getting the permit? Or will they revoke it because they can?
Thanks to all,
Quentin
Romans, 10:13
My lawyer sent me an email that the Mass state police finally responded to her. They claim that they are willing to release the Glock back to me in December, once the cwof is over, and that I don't even have to go back up there to get it. They are going to ship it to an ffl dealer in my home town, (at my expense of course) and I can pay a transfer fee, to re-aquire my own gun since the Mass police think they own in now, and once I pay the ffl transfer fee I can have it back, and that same serial number will be assigned to me again, and it'll show as though I purchased the same gun twice.
Two questions: One, once this is done do I have to wait another 30 days to buy my 2nd handgun, (I've been itching to buy another G27 just so I'll have two in case this ever happens again,) or will they waive the 30 days since I already bought this gun once?
Second question, I have to apply for my ccw in Maryland. Most Marylanders cant' get ccw because its a liberal leftist "may issue" state that requires proof of cash deposits and business ownership to get one without written evidence of a death threat. Well I've never been threatened, but I do meet the corporate owner cash deposit criteria, but one of the questions is "Have you ever been arrested on a gun charge?" Since I was found not guilty on two counts, and cwof on the third, should I have this all expunged, (that'll take a year or two I bet) before I apply for CCW in MD, or can I say, yes I was arrested but not convicted? If I say yes to being arrested and prove that I wasn't convicted do I stand a chance of getting the permit? Or will they revoke it because they can?
Thanks to all,
Quentin
Romans, 10:13
mgkdrgn
Member
Your chance of getting a CCW in Maryland if you meet all the requirements AND have a "blank page" record are minimal.
Your chance of getting a CCW in Maryland if you meet all the requirements AND have =anything= on your record is somewhat less than minimal.
You'll never know until you try ... but the fee (what is it, $200 now?) is non-refundable.
Your chance of getting a CCW in Maryland if you meet all the requirements AND have =anything= on your record is somewhat less than minimal.
You'll never know until you try ... but the fee (what is it, $200 now?) is non-refundable.
jaholder1971
Member
Personally, I would consider yourself lucky if you get it back at all.
Here in KS, under a circumstance like yours, part of the agreement would have been that you have likely had the piece permanently confiscated.
Why? In order to get the CWOF, you had to stipulate that everything the prosecutors accused you of was fundamentally correct, which meant you admitted that you were in illegal possession of a firearm. Firearms in these situations in most jurisdictions are usually never returned to the defendant, even in very gun-friendly regions.
Here in KS, under a circumstance like yours, part of the agreement would have been that you have likely had the piece permanently confiscated.
Why? In order to get the CWOF, you had to stipulate that everything the prosecutors accused you of was fundamentally correct, which meant you admitted that you were in illegal possession of a firearm. Firearms in these situations in most jurisdictions are usually never returned to the defendant, even in very gun-friendly regions.
cassandrasdaddy
Member
- Joined
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kansas is worse than massachussets about guns?
jaholder1971
Member
No, it's better.
But I don't know of any jurisdiction where you admit in court to doing whatever act the prosecutor said you did and agreeing it was illegal in exchange for an eventual dismissal that you would get the tool used in the crime back.
Look, he'll eventually have charges dismissed, but he did admit to doing something illegal (whether or not doesn't really matter) and it was with the gun that he did it. It's why I oppose these types of diversion agreements as it literally does no one any justice.
But I don't know of any jurisdiction where you admit in court to doing whatever act the prosecutor said you did and agreeing it was illegal in exchange for an eventual dismissal that you would get the tool used in the crime back.
Look, he'll eventually have charges dismissed, but he did admit to doing something illegal (whether or not doesn't really matter) and it was with the gun that he did it. It's why I oppose these types of diversion agreements as it literally does no one any justice.
andrewstorm
member
call the fbi and make a complaint,that describes the pattern and practice of the mass st police,and mention the local sherrifs sale of siezed guns.THE ONLY THING WE HAVE TO FEAR IS FEAR ITSELF! F. D.R.
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Igloodude
Member
If the police have your gun (or any other evidence) and you had home owner's insurance at the time the taking took place, check your policy. For me, I would file with insurance, they would pay the value (not the replacement cost), and then follow up with getting the property back or not.
Blackbeard
Member
I'd pay the shipping and transfer fee and then sue the police department to recover those costs.
NightStalkerTX
Member
The website listed above that purports to list states that do not recognize any other states' CHL permits would be wrong, in at least 1 case, thus untrusted in the others. Nebraska does, in fact, recognize Texas CHLs as long as the holder is at least 21 years old.
gideon_70
Member
Squeeky wheel.
Get a letter drawn up, with court case numbers, brief summaries, and that they have not returned your firearm. Get it copied.
Now, get the names of every state congressman and contact them to do research on this.
Then. Contact the US senators and congressmen and also get THEM involved in this.
Then, send the letter to every newspaper in the area.
Then, if there are radio call-in shos in that area, find out about them, and call in and tell them that the State Police stole from you.
Then, find the names of the entire chain of command for the local SP post, and send a complaint letter to every one of them.
Then, file complants against the officers for theft.
Then, (if they have not realzied YOU are more trouble than you are worth), get serious and contact the state Attorney General and see about filing a complaint against any officers that are personally responsible for the storage of your firearm personally.
Press charges against the captain in charge of the post.
Seriously, there is a lot you can do, and a lot of things you can do to embarass them. But the more noise you make, the more likely you are to get your proerty back. Including standing in front of the post and holding a sign that says they stole your property.
Let us know how it comes out.
Get a letter drawn up, with court case numbers, brief summaries, and that they have not returned your firearm. Get it copied.
Now, get the names of every state congressman and contact them to do research on this.
Then. Contact the US senators and congressmen and also get THEM involved in this.
Then, send the letter to every newspaper in the area.
Then, if there are radio call-in shos in that area, find out about them, and call in and tell them that the State Police stole from you.
Then, find the names of the entire chain of command for the local SP post, and send a complaint letter to every one of them.
Then, file complants against the officers for theft.
Then, (if they have not realzied YOU are more trouble than you are worth), get serious and contact the state Attorney General and see about filing a complaint against any officers that are personally responsible for the storage of your firearm personally.
Press charges against the captain in charge of the post.
Seriously, there is a lot you can do, and a lot of things you can do to embarass them. But the more noise you make, the more likely you are to get your proerty back. Including standing in front of the post and holding a sign that says they stole your property.
Let us know how it comes out.
thanks
Thanks for all of the advice guys. Here's a summary of my ideas after reading your posts.
First, MD does not honor ANY other states permit, under ANY condition period. Even the permits issued here come with a list of conditions, like only to and from the bank, or only to and from a certain area, etc....... even the permits that MD issues can be misconstrued as no good in MD. I am seriously, very serisouly considering a relocation to WV or PA or OH since my work is via travel and my business won't be affected by a relocation.
As for getting the gun back, I don't think that's a problem anymore, they are just going to make me do the paper trail thing again and of COURSE, spend a little money. My main question now about this is once the CWOF is up and I get my own gun back, can I immediately go buy G27 #2 or do I have to wait 30 days since I have to do FFL paperwork, and that is supposed to only happen every 30 days. Even though the first gun is ALREADY MINE?!?!??!
Thanks to all....
-Quentin
Thanks for all of the advice guys. Here's a summary of my ideas after reading your posts.
First, MD does not honor ANY other states permit, under ANY condition period. Even the permits issued here come with a list of conditions, like only to and from the bank, or only to and from a certain area, etc....... even the permits that MD issues can be misconstrued as no good in MD. I am seriously, very serisouly considering a relocation to WV or PA or OH since my work is via travel and my business won't be affected by a relocation.
As for getting the gun back, I don't think that's a problem anymore, they are just going to make me do the paper trail thing again and of COURSE, spend a little money. My main question now about this is once the CWOF is up and I get my own gun back, can I immediately go buy G27 #2 or do I have to wait 30 days since I have to do FFL paperwork, and that is supposed to only happen every 30 days. Even though the first gun is ALREADY MINE?!?!??!
Thanks to all....
-Quentin
mgkdrgn
Member
If the "every 30 days" is a Maryland thing (and i do believe it is), then it sounds like you can resolve a whole lof problems (and likely live cheaper!) by relocating. Vote with your feet.
Grey Morel
Member
This happened to a friend of mine.
He had a falling out with a guy who knew he had a lot of guns. Later, that guy broke into his house and stole a gun from him. This dirt-bag sold it to another guy who knocked over a liqueur store with it. The police caught the robber and recovered my friends gun, but they wont give it back because the robbers accomplice is still at large and the gun is "evidence".
Its been a couple of years, and they have made ZERO progress towards catching this other guy. They aren't even looking for him. Still, they wont give the gun back. They are going to keep it in the evidence locker until the end of time just in case this second guy ever gets caught.
He had a falling out with a guy who knew he had a lot of guns. Later, that guy broke into his house and stole a gun from him. This dirt-bag sold it to another guy who knocked over a liqueur store with it. The police caught the robber and recovered my friends gun, but they wont give it back because the robbers accomplice is still at large and the gun is "evidence".
Its been a couple of years, and they have made ZERO progress towards catching this other guy. They aren't even looking for him. Still, they wont give the gun back. They are going to keep it in the evidence locker until the end of time just in case this second guy ever gets caught.
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