Getting into 9mm..... A few questions....and just sharing

[Zaydok Allen]

The last time there was a panic because of a mass shooting, and all the ammo went missing from the shelves, I had enough of a stockpile of target ammo that I was able to shoot all my guns as much as I wanted for the most part. I outlasted the panic. However, in pondering the scarcity of ammo, I found my collection of firearms to be lacking a few chamberings that I think would be good to have on hand so when I can't find one ammo type, I can find another I can shoot. In autoloaders I am almost strictly a .45 shooter at the moment, simply because I favor the recoil characteristics, the solid thump of the round, and I shoot it well.

Every collection needs a 9mm in it though. So for several months I've been debating on different full size 9mm blasters to take to the range and as a serviceable home defense gun. I don't need any more home defense guns, but I have a tendency to make all of my handguns very practical. There is no gun in my collection that I'd call strictly a "range toy".

Anyway, I settled on ordering one of the Wilson Combat/Beretta 92G Brigadier Tacticals that are being produced, and I'm having Wilson do an action tune on it. The reports I'm hearing from folks who have gotten their guns are 99% good.

So, my questions......

I know that 124 gr is the original bullet weight of the 9mm Luger. In fixed sight guns, I like to stick with the original weight as the POI always seems to hit where I intend, and I assume it's because most gun manufacturers use original bullet weights when figuring sight alignment and POI. However, there seems to be a huge proliferation of 115 gr target ammo on the shelves at any given time. So how much lower could I expect to see the POI to be with 115 gr ammo, vs. 124 gr ammo, at say.... 25 yards? Or is it really a small concern? I don't compete or anything, so it's not like it's a hugely critical issue, but I have noticed quite a difference on my 45's. 200 gr ammo hits noticeably lower than 230 gr ammo. I know I need to test the difference myself in my own gun, but I'm just curious what other people have experienced, and typically when I start a thread, I end up learning something I had not even considered. (THR is great)

Question two: I rarely hear anyone talk about reloading 9mm ammo. Is that because it is so cheap? Or is it possibly because the 9mm is a tapered cartridge and makes reloading a little tougher? I don't currently reload, but I have been saving my brass for years, and sorting it with the intention that I will be reloading in the future. I have enough brass that I suspect I'll be shooting nothing but reloads for a few years when I do actually get into it.

I did try a search on this subject, but I like having my own thread to go back to as a reference.

Thanks all.

 

[strambo]

I settled on ordering one of the Wilson Combat/Beretta 92G Brigadier Tacticals

Oh man, you are killing me! I don't care much for the M9 I'm issued and have carried overseas on multiple occasions...but I'd love a Wilson tweaked Beretta. Especially the G model conversion, I can't stand the slide mounted safety/decocker, but the decock only makes it a non-issue.

9mm is a great round. For defensive shooting type practice out to 25yds, POI shouldn't be a problem 115 vs 124. I carry 124g and store bought training ammo is 115g. I also reload, 9mm is easy to load for. I'd recommend a Dillon 550, I have a "Square Deal B" which is great for handgun rounds, but I can't load for rifle on it. I just have a single stage for rifles.

I'm in the opposite camp as you, I started with 45 ACP and also like the recoil characteristics, but only have 9mms now. I need another 45! I really don't like 40, great round on paper, but compared to 9mm or 45 the recoil sucks.

 

[Kp321]

Most of my 9's are Browning Hi Powers, especially the ones I shoot. I have Lugers, Radoms, and Lahtis that I don't shoot much. I have a drawer full of M-9 mags I have picked up for next to nothing so guess I'll have to buy a pistol to use them. The Brownings are solid, reliable pistols, all steel. If you like 1911's you will love a Hi Power.
Like you, most of my pistol shooting is done with 1911 style 45's so I picked up a Springfield RO in 9 mm which is great to shoot, low recoil and lower cost than 45. The only down side compared to other 9's is magazine capacity.

 

[Schwing]

There are actually a lot of people who do reload for 9mm. I started doing it about 2 years ago. IMO, it wasn't worth it 10 years ago because 9mm ammo was relatively inexpensive. Since the panic, prices have gone up to where the cheapest I have seen 9mm in the last year is about $13 per box. Since I can reload for about $6 per box (buying bullets) or $3 per box (casting my own bullets) it makes sense now.

9mm can be a challenge to reload for if you are new at it like I was. Cast bullets are an issue since 9mm is a high pressure round. Having said that, it is doable with a little experience and better than factory round accuracy can be achieved.

If you are new to reloading, I would suggest NOT starting with 9mm (Or .40 for that matter) but start with a lower pressure round like .45. This way you can learn the basics and then sort of move up from there. One of the things you learn pretty quick reloading is that your cost per round doesn't go up significantly with each caliber as it does buying ammo. For example, it runs about .10 to .12 per round for me to reload 9mm and costs about .15 for 44 mag. The difference between 9mm and .44 when BUYING ammo is quite a bit more significant.

 

[Fiv3r]

That is a NICE 9mm to have I would love to get my grubby mitts on one, but for now I'll have to make do with a basic 92fs.

I love the Beretta 92 platform. I love my 1911 too, but when I pick a full size gun to pack, it's almost always the 92.

I have shot every kind of 9mm ammo that I can get my hands on since it was hard to find for a time. Granted, this was out a shorter 4" fnx, but I saw no noticeable difference between the lighter and heavier stuff at 25 yards in terms of accuracy.

Enjoy your pistol. She's a beauty.

 

[JDR]

I really like that Wilson Beretta 92G Tactical. I have an STI Trojan 1911 in 9mm that really seems to favor that new Winchester 147gr. "T" ammo, and the low recoil really seems to help accuracy at the range.

 

[ATLDave]

I reload for 9mm. Nothing tricky about it, IMO. Just follow the published load data, use sound practices, and QC appropriately, and there's nothing tricky about it. Sure, the pressures are higher than in .45ACP, but the case capacity is a much closer fit for the powder charges. Quite a few 9mm powders are impossible to double-charge... they'll overflow. You could about quadruple charge a .45 with a fast powder!

And the tapered case thing has been a non-issue. I read things that say that makes it tougher to load, but I don't even understand what the problem is supposed to be... and I've loaded many thousands of rounds of it.

 

[bikerdoc]

Like you I am a 45 guy, but I have developed a strong like for CZ 9 MM. I got 3.
I dont use much 115 , but when I do it just a ring lower at 25 yds. 124 bullets and careful reloading will give you a lot of cheap range time.
congats on a good choice.

 

[Catshooter]

Two friends of mine were at the range, both shooting their Glock 19s. One was shooting cheap 9mm ammo, the other was shooting my reloads. Groups were about ten inches and three inches.

The ten incher whined to the three, so they swapped pistols. No change.

He whined again, so they swapped ammo. Now Mr. Ten incher is getting three inch groups.

Cost isn't the only reason to reload your own.


Cat

 

[Pilot]

I reload for 9MM also, and have used FMJ, plated, and lead cast bullets all with great success. Yes, I get better accuracy than bulk, factory ammo for about have the cost per box. I reload for .45 ACP, and .45 Colt, and that is where reloading REALLY saves some money.

 

[Goju]

I'm another 9mm reloader, and have found no special issues in using jacketed, plated or coated bullets. Just use the correct reloading practices and QC, and you will be able to produce quality reloads your pistol will easily digest. My pistol ammo reloading has been solely done on a Dillon SDB, and I have conversions for 45 acp and 41 Mag. If you do not plan on reloading for rifle calibers, the little Dillion should merit consideration. My experience with their customer support has been excellent.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I started doing it about 2 years ago. IMO, it wasn't worth it 10 years ago because 9mm ammo was relatively inexpensive. Since the panic, prices have gone up to where the cheapest I have seen 9mm in the last year is about $13 per box. Since I can reload for about $6 per box (buying bullets) or $3 per box (casting my own bullets) it makes sense now.

Ah, I see. I'm so used to shooting 45 which is usually about $20 a box at its cheapest in my area, that 9mm seems so cheap. Of course, there is always room for improvement.

If you are new to reloading, I would suggest NOT starting with 9mm (Or .40 for that matter) but start with a lower pressure round like .45. This way you can learn the basics and then sort of move up from there.

I have never done any reloading at all, but I am familiar with how it works. None the less, I realize just how important good practices and QC are, and intend to read several books on it before I seat my first primer. I shoot guns including 32 S&W Long, 357 mag, 45 acp, along with 45 colt and up to 460 mag. My intention would be to start out with 38 special loads, and 45 colt. Colt is the bigger interest for me, as the ammo has gotten so expensive, I can hardly afford to shoot it anymore. I figure low pressure, straight cases is about the simplest and most forgiving reloading there is to start out with.

I do plan to jump straight to a Dillon turret press when I do get into reloading. I just have no place at all to set up at the moment.

Oh man, you are killing me! I don't care much for the M9 I'm issued and have carried overseas on multiple occasions...but I'd love a Wilson tweaked Beretta. Especially the G model conversion, I can't stand the slide mounted safety/decocker, but the decock only makes it a non-issue.

My order is actually a very long and winding road. I've owned two AR15's, and with the selling of my last one, realized I just didn't care that much about owning one. What I do find fun are pistol caliber carbines. After doing some research, I didn't really find any 45 carbines that were in my price range that I liked. So, I looked closer at the 9mm ballistics out of a longer tube, and saw that it could be an effective defense option, and a lot of cheap fun on the range. Naturally, being a hand gunner, my mind immediately leapt to a companion pistol. I looked at the PX4's as it seemed the natural choice, but when I looked at the magazine capacity, combined with the fact that I've wanted, and been fondling 92 series pistols for years, I came back to the 92's. Well, then Wilson came out with the Brig Tac, and I thought "If I'm going to get one or maybe two 92 series guns, why not make them a bit higher end, and really nice shooters?" Since there is no guarantee that that there will be a second run of them, I didn't want to let the opportunity to own one pass me by. I've done it before, and I've regretted it. So..... somehow, not caring for AR's, and wanting a 45 acp carbine has evolved into ordering a Brig Tac. It makes me laugh now when I think about it.

Thanks for the comments so far gents. If you think of any other bits of info or quirks regarding the 9mm, or 92 series guns, please share.

 

[9 fingers]

I like shooting 9mm and use mostly a CZ75b and a Zastava M88a. But with the cost of good FMJ ammo at $11.99 a box of 50 for Blazer brass, Sellior and Bellot, PRVI Partizan, etc., and free shipping on cases from TargetsportsUSA or any quantity from Sportsmans Guide, is it really worth reloading? Yes I know accuracy can be improved but good shooters can do 2" groups at 25 yards with factory ammo and a good rest and a good gun. My problem is the time required to reload. If I were retired I would probably do it as a hobby but as it is my time is much more valuable doing something else and buying factory ammo. BTW enjoy that Beretta.
9 fingers

 

[BSA1]

I have reloaded many thousands of 9mm mostly with 115 gr. cast lead bullets. The only problem I have is getting my fat fingers out of the way so I can pull the handle on my RCBS Rockchucker.

 

[moxie]

I find the 115s shoot maybe an inch or so lower than the 124s. Maybe. Hardly noticeable. It's only 9 grs. difference, not the 30 grs. going from 230 down to 200.

I use 124s for carry so that's what I practice with.

I've reloaded thousands of 9mm rounds, mostly 124 gr. LRN cast lead. Work great. I use the same procedures as with the .45acp and have no problems whatsoever. Piece of cake.

I was one of those .45acp hardliners for many years, but got into the 9mm as bullet performance improved greatly. The new 9mm HSTs and Gold Dots are just about as effective as the .45acp HSTs and Gold Dots.

The bonus is I can carry more rounds in a lighter and smaller package with quicker followups. The 9 is fine.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Hey what about the aluminum frame and lubing up the rails? I've always used Hoppe's gun oil as my rail lubricant with good results. Do the Beretta's do better with any other lube, or is Hoppe's fine?

 

[csa77]

Reloading 9mm is a breeze. I just started reloading about 3 months ago.
My very first machine , a Dillon 650. So far,I have loaded and shoot 3,000 rounds of problem free reloads. My only regret is not buying the Dillon 1050. There is a lot of NATO brass I pick up that needs to be swaged.


The hardest part is finding the powder. About the time I ordered my machine I back ordered 32 lbs of titegroup , I doubt it will ever come in tho.

 

[Tinker]

If you can pay attention to detail and have some mechanical inclination then don't let reloading 9mm intimidate you. I jumped into reloading 9mm with a progressive press from the start. Got into it to have a supply when panics hit, not to save money necessarily. But, once started I found it to be a fun hobby all by it's self. Be warned.....you can get REAL deep into this. Deeper than I care to go. I personally just want simple, safe range fodder for practice.

Only regret is not stacking up more powder and primers.

First order of business is to by a couple of good manuals and read them. Tons of Youtube is also available. Those sources will help you decide if it's something you could do and go on to invest more of your hard earned money.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

If you can pay attention to detail and have some mechanical inclination then don't let reloading 9mm intimidate you.

I write timber sale contracts for the government for enormous volumes of wood. So naturally, my eye for detail is pretty good. The only reason I asked was just because I don't here many folks talk about reloading 9mm.

I see my perception was wrong though. It sounds like there are plenty of folks who do. I won't let it intimidate me.

 

[drband]

I reload 9, 45 & .380 and find them all relatively easy to load using jacketed or plated bullets. Have not tried cast yet. Can load those for $7.50/50 or less depending on powder, bullet & primer prices. I've been saving brass for a year, so no more expense there. If you've got the time, go for it!

 

[col_temp]

Can load those for $7.50/50 or less depending on powder, bullet & primer prices

And using your own brass...

Note though 9mm ammo is down to 9.99/50 factory. So unless you really like reloading or shoot lots and lots of rounds every week. The margin is getting very thin.
Have not reloaded 9mm I usually stick to rifle rounds at the moment (Do have 9mm dies etc just in case!)
But without a progressive press it takes a long time to reload what you will likely shoot up in 30 minutes or so at the range!

 

[drband]

And using your own brass...

Note though 9mm ammo is down to 9.99/50 factory. So unless you really like reloading or shoot lots and lots of rounds every week. The margin is getting very thin.
Have not reloaded 9mm I usually stick to rifle rounds at the moment (Do have 9mm dies etc just in case!)
But without a progressive press it takes a long time to reload what you will likely shoot up in 30 minutes or so at the range!

You are correct sir! I don't expect 9mm prices to stay in that range. However, if they do, I can just keep on loading 45 & 380! I'll take a break from 9 if price warrants.