Getting Into Reloading with Black Powder - A Few Questions

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Mr. D

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Hi! I'd like to start loading BP cartridges, but I have a few questions.

1. The drop tube. How long does it need to be? Does it need to drop straight into the cartridge, or could I mount it just above the Lee Powder Through Expander Die on my press and have it drop the powder into that little funnel built into the die? Also, does it have to be made of copper or aluminium? Would iron pipe work? Does the inside diameter mater?

2. Static. Some folks ground the press and ban plastic from their bench but I've read the article where the guy intentionally tried to set BP on fire with sparks and couldn't. How big of an issue is it? Is a plastic funnel on top of the drop tube ok, or should I use a metal funnel?

I think that's it for now, that should be enough to get things started anyway.

Thanks for the help!

~D
 
I don't use a drop tube to load 45 Colt. I'm not really loading anything I need to really compact down to get it to fit. 35 grains of FFg under a 250-255 gr lead bullet fits just fine with a little compression.

I have a Lee powder thru expander die in my Dillon. I put a red Lee plastic funnel in the top of the die. I run the case up in it, dispense the powder into my brass measure, then dump that down the funnel. Slow, but easy.
 
Hammer, that's exactly how I was planning on doing it, only with a drop tube in between. I'll be loading .38 special with 158 gr bullets and I'd like to get around 20 gr of fffg in there. I guess I'll just have to try it and see. Of course, that load might be a little too hot for CAS, but I'd like a nice big BOOM and smoke cloud. :)

~D
 
You can just use a tube between the funnel and the expander die, but you'll probably need a expander/reducer fitting on one or both ends to make the tube the correct size to hold it in place. I'd use a copper or aluminum tube. Height is whatever you can reach comfortably.
 
My BPCR rifle drop tube is 31" of 3/8" copper with the ends flared.

I have heard of people using hollow aluminum arrow shafts with funnel and nozzle glued on.

Mike Venturino says he drop tubes his .44-40 revolver and carbine ammo. More work in the loading but he says the powder burns cleaner and he does not have to clean between stages of a CAS shoot.
 
I reload .38s, .357s, and .45 Colt with blackpowder for Cowboy Action Shooting. I use Lee dippers and dispense the charge into the case with a funnel, no drop tube.

A .38 case filled to the brim will be about 25 grains of powder. 20 grains in a .38 Special case will leave some space for the bullet. A 158 grain bullet will compress the 20 grain charge more than adequately. 777 is one powder that does not like much compression, so if you are using 777 don't overfill the case.

You did not ask about anything else, but in my opinion the kind and amount of lube you choose is a lot more important that worrying about a drop tube. Since I am using dippers, I am not worried about static. But I doubt that I would worry about static even if I were loading the shells progressively.

I don't clean between stages either, and my cap and ball guns and cartridge guns routinely shoot 60+ rounds without any wiping or cleaning. The amount of fouling is going to be largely determined by the brand of powder, strength of the cartridge crimp, and volume of bullet lube, not the use of a drop tube, IMO.
 
I have loaded black powder on both my Lee Pro 1000 and Lee Classic Turret press. On the Pro I used the powder dispenser with double disks and the same on my Classic. I did do some using the funnel and dipper method but that was due to missing the riser required for the Powder dispenser to work on the Classic. Never had a problem with either the Auto Disk with the pro upgrade (not the chain added on the classic) or the Pro auto disk which also uses the same round hopper that you can turn off.
 
J-Bar said:
I reload .38s, .357s, and .45 Colt with blackpowder for Cowboy Action Shooting. I use Lee dippers and dispense the charge into the case with a funnel, no drop tube.

A .38 case filled to the brim will be about 25 grains of powder. 20 grains in a .38 Special case will leave some space for the bullet. A 158 grain bullet will compress the 20 grain charge more than adequately. 777 is one powder that does not like much compression, so if you are using 777 don't overfill the case.

You did not ask about anything else, but in my opinion the kind and amount of lube you choose is a lot more important that worrying about a drop tube. Since I am using dippers, I am not worried about static. But I doubt that I would worry about static even if I were loading the shells progressively.

I don't clean between stages either, and my cap and ball guns and cartridge guns routinely shoot 60+ rounds without any wiping or cleaning. The amount of fouling is going to be largely determined by the brand of powder, strength of the cartridge crimp, and volume of bullet lube, not the use of a drop tube, IMO.

What J-Bar said.

I use a standard powder measure on a Lock-N-Load progressive press to load my .38, 44-40, and 45-70 blackpowder rounds without trouble. My usual .38 load is 20 grains of fffg and a 125 or 158 grain bullet. My 44-40 loading is 31 gr fffg and a 200 grain bullet.
 
I don't cast my own bullets, so I will be buying them from a fellow CASer who makes and sells them. He uses SPG lube. I plan on using Diamondback BP, since I can get that cheaply through my CW reenacting unit, but if I don't get good results with that I'll use Goex. I guess I'll just try it without the drop tube and see what happens. I won't be using a powder dispenser, so I guess I don't have a lot to worry about static-wise.

Thanks for sharing your load data, BTW!

~D
 
Howdy

The point of a drop tube is that the powder falling a couple of feet by gravity tends to pack denser in the case, ergo you get more powder in and it is more densely packed. But it only works if the powder drops directly into the case. Put something in between, like a funnel, and the effect is lost, because the funnel slows down the powder grains before they get into the case.

I know Mike likes to use a drop tube, but for my 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 44-40, and 44 Russian CAS loads, it is just not necessary. Long range precision 45-70 ammo is a different story.

The key here is not stuffing as much powder as possible into the case. All you have to do is pour in enough so that when the bullet is seated it compresses the powder by between 1/16" and 1/8". No point in stuffing in more than that, it is just a waste of powder.

I agree, the amount and type of lube used is more important than using a drop tube to not need to clean your guns in between stages. It's Black Powder! It is supposed to be messy and cruddy! I use SPG lube and I use Big Lube bullets exclusively for Black Powder in CAS. Keeps my guns rolling through an entire match without needing any cleaning.

I ain't going to comment on Static Electricity and Black Powder. I will only say that I worked in the electronics industry for 24 years, and there is a whole lot more to what static discharge can do than a bunch of photos on the web.

I will tell you that grounding the press is pointless. That is because every time you move, you generate a static charge. So if the press is grounded, every time you touch the press, you discharge a spark to the press from your body to ground. You may not see or feel the spark, but it is there. Every single time. The only time grounding the press accomplishes anything is if you also ground yourself, and the entire work station. Keeping yourself and the press at the same potential is the only way to avoid a spark jumping from you to the press. No, I do not ground my press nor myself, although I do try to limit loading Black Powder to humid days, I try to avoid loading BP on very dry days. Moisture in the atmosphere drains off static charges more than dry air. That is why electronic assembly rooms often have a higher moisture content in the air than outside.

Typical static generators are glass, paper, wood, and most plastics. Anything that will not conduct current will generate a static charge. But static charges that are generated are proportional to the surface area of an object. A very small plastic object such as a powder funnel or a dipper does not generate much of a charge. A large plastic hopper on a loading press will generate a much larger charge. That is why I am the last person on the planet that still refuses to put Black Powder into the plastic hopper on a MEC shotgun press. However I do have a Lyman PB measure mounted on my Hornady Lock & Load. The BP measure has brass innards in an iron body. Don't forget, unlike a static charge, a spark generated by steel striking steel is a very effective way to ignite Black Powder. That's why BP powder measures have brass moving parts, so a spark cannot be generated.
 
Pistol cartridges and distances don't need a drop tube. The idea is explained above. The same effect can be obtained with out the tube is the powder is settled into place. I load my 45-70's and just hold the case up against a vibrating case tumbler for a few seconds. It settles the powder just fine. I also use an OP card and grease cookie. When I seat the bullets, I can feel the powder crunch. I do not crimp, don't need it in single shots. Straight wall cases are easier to load. I also don't bother resizing. I keep cases separate for each gun.

If you go with a drop tube it needs to be narrow enough to keep the powder in the case. so for a 45-70 it would have to have an interior diameter less than .457 If you need better aim, the outside diameter should fit into the case mouth. I think most folks use brass tubing. I have seen drops of 18 to 30 inches. Frankly, the powder should settle as well as it should be compressed uniformly with each load. But there are other ways beside a drop tube.
 
J-Bar & Fingers,
What bullet are you using for the BP 38 & 357 cartridges? Is/are it/they BigLube or what? I use the Lyman 358311 158gr RN lubed with beeswax & deer tallow (50/50) over 15grs FFFg 777 and have no problems. When I used FFFg Goex I had to use a disc or two of BW brood core to keep the rifle barrel from fouling out after two stages without a wet patch pull through. I got tired of black stains on my shirt cuffs so I gave up on BP and went to 777. BTW the BW cookies ruined the accuracy for any kind of didstance (6" BP groups @ 50yds vs 1.5" w/777).
 
For .38 Specials and .357 Magnum blackpowder cartridges, I have used the Lee 358-125-RF mold and more recently the Slim 38 big lube style mold from Dick Dastardly:

http://www.biglube.com/BulletMolds.aspx?ItemID=ebcdc217-f282-40a1-92ba-ca09fa487426

The Slim 38 drops out of the mold a few grains lighter than the Lee, but not much. The Slim 38 has a nice truncated cone profile which I like. I lube both types by dipping their little butts into melted beeswax and crisco, then dropping them into a pan of cold water to harden the lube instantly. I do not use any cookies or wads, and get enough lube onto the bullet that I have had no problems with either style.

With the lighter bullets, overall cartridge length can come into play. If you have a rifle that is very sensitive to cartridge length, be aware that you might have to tweak the carrier to get shorter bullets to feed reliably. The first time I tried the Slim 38 in my '73 the carrier jammed, but I got it to work after playing with the angle on the front of the carrier.
 
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I use Mod 92 Rossi/Pumas. I'm not messing with the carriers. Thanks for the info, I'll look into it.
 
Johnson, Thank you! That is what I suspected, but I didn't know for sure.

~D
 
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