GI Springer: The Inside Story

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1911Tuner

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May 22, 2003
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Location
Lexington,North Carolina...or thereabouts
Here's what I found:

Specs are all within tolerance except the mainspring housing hole in the
frame. Approximately .002 inch out of square. There was enough stack-up between the holes and the hole in the Brown MSH that the pin wouldn't
go through. The hole in the MSH is on the low side, and I need to find,
beg, borrow or steal a .265 reamer to make it work. Minor detail. Not an
issue if the OEM housing is left in place.

The frame rails were square to within .001 inch end to end. The ways were
off by .005 inch, front to rear. Slide is flush with frame at the rear, and thumb safety fits perfectly in its notch when engaged.

The ejector is pinned.

Slidestop and grip safety are MIM. Hammer strut appears to be cast.
Hammer, sear and disconnect are MIM. Trigger shoe appears to be cast.
Trigger bow is straight and appears to be hard to within spec. Hammer
has a shelf instead of a captive half-cock notch. Bushing appears to
be machined steel. Clearance between bushing and slide is .002 inch. barrel to bushing is .003 inch. Could be better...Could be worse.

Extractor is barstock and tension was correctly set. Has Springfield
corrected the extractor issue of recent times? Time will tell.


Surprise! The disconnect was prepped/polished on the face and on the
48 degree angle on the backside. Nice touch, Springfield. The tops of the
sear spring legs were angled, but not polished. Trigger and disconnector reset were positive. All safeties were functional and correct. I stoned the
angle on the top and bottom of the trigger stirrup, polished the back, and stoned the tops of the sear legs smooth before reassembly. Also lightly
stoned the trigger bow on the corners, lengthwise to break the sharp edges.

Link pin is tight. Link is correct length and the vertical lockup is on the lower lug. Slidestop pin rubs the lug lightly as it breaks around the
front radius of the lower lug, and barely holds the pin off the radius
at the tangent. Dang near perfect.

Vertical barrel lockup is tight with no movement when pressed hard with at the hood the pistol in battery.

Prussian Blue dye on the lugs and three rounds fired indicates approximately 95% lug engagement with even contact on the faces. Linkdown timing is good, with .015 inch of clearance between slide and barrel at .250 inch slide travel.

Barrel throat is forward of the top of the ramp approximately .035 inch...
Perfect. Sharp edge at the top of the throat was lightly scraped and
polished.

Bore is clean and bright with sharp corners on the lands. Headspace
is within spec as checked with Go/No-Go gauges.

Three test rounds produced smooth chambering and positive ejection,
with slidelock on empty.

Tight schedule requires a standby at this point. I'll edit and add more
in a while.

Later on!

Edit: Closer exaination of the bushing after removing a little of the parkerizing revealed what appears to be a parting line. Cast?

Tuner
 
Last edited:
Thank you. I'm not sure what that all means, but I think it's good. Should MIM parts be automatically replaced?

WildAlaska, are you making notes?
 
More

Riley asked:

Thank you. I'm not sure what that all means, but I think it's good. Should MIM parts be automatically replaced?

Overall a pretty impressive piece, considering the price. No. MIM
parts shouldn't be automatically replaced unless you intend to
use the gun hard, especially if you also intend to carry it. I'd
replace MIM slidestops and thumb safeties, and probably the
grip safety. A good investment casting can be very durable,
as Ruger has been showing us for better than 20 years.
_________________________________

Going further, the recoil spring wire diameter miked out at .042,and the
spring had 30 coils, and had a dab of yellow paint on the rear 2 coils.
The diameter is identical to a Wolff 14# spring, but the Wolff has a
full 32 coils. The spring feels lighter than the 16# Wolff springs, and
the tester bore this out. It checked at14.5 pounds at full compression,
and 13.7 at installed full compression...just short of the coils touching.

Springfield is evidently following Colt's lead and underspringing the pistols
a little in order to give the magazines time to catch up.

Stay tuned...More to come after the shooting session tomorrow...hopefully.

Tuner
 
Dang, that's impressive attention to detail, and well explained, too.

Maybe I should let you try to get my .40 Double Eagle Commander to run.:)
 
'Rincos and Dogs

Duckfoot said:


He might, if his dogs like you, and offer to sell him a Norinco 1911?

Man! I don't dance with the Eagle...That thing launches springs and stuff by just takin' off the right grip panel!
:cuss:

And if my dogs don't like a somebody, I keep a close eye on'em. Those
dogs KNOW things...:scrutiny:

Duckfoot walked in and had'em eatin' out of his hand in about 5 minutes...
even the rescue who was abused and trusts NO man for about a week.
Women and kids, he's okay with...

Bedtime!

Tuner-----------.Out!
 
Buy an STI.

The Trojan is good in a single-stack. The Edge is outstanding in a double-stack with a full dust cover, otherwise go for the ... Eagle.

Jerry the Geek, owner of an STI Edge in 10mm
 
Women and kids, he's okay with...

Hey now, I been known to have Maryjo Ledet's father lock her up for the night becuse I'm so Swab and Deboner and she can't resist me, and kids, they like me, for the most part, on sundays, once a leap year, during a full moon.........:neener:

Man! I don't dance with the Eagle...That thing launches springs and stuff by just takin' off the right grip panel!


So, I'm not always right!;)
 
Mighty Mighty Trojan

Howdy Jerry, and welcome to THR.

Too late. The Springer's done been bought. Since the gun seems to be sellin' like propane in Cicago in December, I've been promisin' these
folks that I'd have one to report on from an armorer's point of view.
They've been holdin' my feet to the fire ever since, so I had to make good.
Mine's on loan. My stepson bought one and was so impressed that he bought a second one so I could have a fresh one to do the write-up
on. I think he just used that for an excuse to buy another pistol...:cool:

We might get you to do a report on your Trojan. I've seen only one in private hands in this bend of the creek, and I'd like to hear more on'em.


Aybody other Trojan owners out there. Is that the one that can't be
detail-stripped without messin' up the frame? Seems like I heard about
a 1911 clone like that somewhere...

Cheers!

Tuner
 
Tune,

Dosen't that Springer GI come with the short style trigger? Also, did Springfield add all the little touches like the little cut in the recoil spring plug (to keep it from putting your eye out) and the kink in the plunger tube spring, sear spring bevel.....?


Duck
 
Dust cover
attachment.php

It's the part that covers the recoil spring, recoil spring guide etc.....
hope that helps
 
Tuner, the slide stop in my Springer is apparently MIM. On the inside surface near where the pin joins the lever there's a sprue mark. Check yours and tell me if you see a sprue mark as well. Who knows, maybe they're using either cast or MIM parts as allocations allow.
 
Buy an STI.

They're nice. You can get two and a half GI Springers for one, though. Not really apples to apples.

I would've bought the GI Springer at the local shop--it had a great trigger--but I just don't get the "U.S." grips. Why go through the trouble of making it match a WWII 1911 and then slap on grips that no 1911 ever had? I'd rather have the cheap plastic ones. Some GI Springers came with real, normal wood ones--that would be ideal.
 
MIM or Cast?

Dana, this one is a casting. Thin parting line on the backside of the stop arm with light "pock" marks, and no sprue mark to be found. Interesting.
Wonder how many different vendors are supplying parts...

Bedtime!

Tunerzzzzzzzzzz
 
Little Touches

duckfoot asked:

Dosen't that Springer GI come with the short style trigger? Also, did Springfield add all the little touches like the little cut in the recoil spring plug (to keep it from putting your eye out) and the kink in the plunger tube spring, sear spring bevel.....?

Howdy Duckman!

The trigger is short and grooved, not checkered.(Bond...James Bond)

No cut in the spring plug, dangit.

The kink is in the plunger spring. Plus!

The sear spring legs are beveled but not stoned/polished.

The disconnector was prepped exactly like your Champion. Nice touch!

Later on!

Tooner
 
Tuner:

Concerning the slide stop - is there a small radius where the pin and lever join? Also, is the pin's diameter uniform for the whole length and does it fit the hole in the frame correctly?

If the gun were mine I think it, and the MIM hammer, sear and disconector whould soon go. While they did some nice work on the disconector I'd worry about excessive wear at the top, or having it crack if there was an internal flaw or void. Same with the sear. The hammer might be O.K, but if you're going to do things right why not go all the way?

What's the firing pin stop made out of, and how well is it fitted?

Not to slam anybody, but I'd be far more worried about these things then the cosmetic look of the grips. A bad pair of grips won't disable the gun but the other parts might.
 
>> Just what are we to do with you? <<

I expect an angry lynch mob at the gate any minute. I don’t suppose the bean-counter’s will be amused – or like this minute dissection of their product. Actually as Tuner pointed out it’s a pretty good value by today’s standards. My problem is that I don’t like “today’s standards,†especially if they degrade the pistol's dependability. I’ve seen too many posts about parts breaking when they shouldn’t or even simply falling off the gun. Not good …

The really sad truth is that it wouldn't cost that much more to do it right, and would represent a fraction of the expense to replace these critical components. The first maker who wises up to this won't be able to keep up with the orders.
 
Fuff's Concerns

Howdy Fuff! I was startin' to think that we were gonna be down all week!


The slidestop is radiused at the junction, but there's a slight ring-like depression that appears to have been made during the final machining,
and is probably where the radius came from. The radius is smaller than
on a machined barstock stop, but it's there.

For those who don't know, radiused corners are done to stop stress risers that can and often do lead to cracks and/or broken parts. My
guess is that the depressed ring came from wire EDM finish machining
of the pin. The slidestop looks to be nearly identical to a new Ed Brown
Hardcore slidestop that I have...also a casting.

The pin is a uniform .1975 diameter and both holes in the frame are
.199 on both sides. The pin exhibits very little play when pushed through the frame.

The firing pin stop appears to be a casting with attendant sharp corners and edges...which I've lightly beveled for the duration of the test. At
the conclusion of the slated 5,000 rounds, the slidestop, FP stop, hammer,
sear, disconnect, and hammer strut will be replaced with upgraded parts,
since the lad has consented to sell the pistol to me. Actually, since he
knows how hard I wring'em out, he probably doesn't want it back. :D


Still undecided on whether to lower the ejection port.

If I can arrange for a magnaflux check of the small parts, I'll do so and report.

Stay tuned! (No pun intended)
 
The really sad truth is that it wouldn't cost that much more to do it right, and would represent a fraction of the expense to replace these critical components.
Well this topic came up via phone during downtime. Can't really attribute the following to a age group of folks - then again to a certain degree perhaps we can. Being: Some folks do not have the experience of Quality Control folks like you Old Fuff, Tuner, Keenan and others refer to. No baseline.

So the current QC is "acceptable" until they actually have some time to spend to do research, view posts, "see, feel" the QC of yesteryear - or today's "better parts and craftsmanship.

Tuner -

Ejection Port - It is my understanding ( and experience) if the extractor is properly tuned and of good quality ( spring steel first choice, barstock second) and the pistol tuned correctly...the gun will run and be reliable.

If someone has the time to post pics to show the markings of MIM compared to the qualilty parts might be a good visual aid.

Steve
 
Port

sm said:

Ejection Port - It is my understanding ( and experience) if the extractor is properly tuned and of good quality ( spring steel first choice, barstock second) and the pistol tuned correctly...the gun will run and be reliable.

Very true, and this one has been reliable so far. It's just that...well...it puts a little "V" shaped ding in the case mouths of some of the brass,
and a few of'em are deep enough that I've gotta straighten it before I can run'em into the sizer die. :cuss: Just me bein' lazy, I reckon.

What happens is that, the case twists toward the port and hits the
lower edge of the port just as it kicks loose from the extractor. I've
reduced it by radiusing the bottom of the hook and making a slight angle on the ejector nose to alter the angle on the exit, but it's still dingin' about one round in 10, and one in 20 or so(1:20 of the ones that get dinged) need to be ironed out before a trip through the sizer. Lowering the port about a 64th would stop the problem cold, methinks...and let the brass kick out at about 2 O'Clock instead of bouncin' off the bottom of the port and flyin' out at the 12:30 to 1 O'Clock position.

The extractor hook is also a little short at .030 for my tastes. I may cut it a little deeper just for kicks before I replace it. I want to see how durable Springfield's extractor is...and whether they've addressed the problem that they had with extractors for a while.

Cheers!

Tuner
 
Umm okay if I show how dumb I am - again? :D

What if you took a known extractor , with the specs "proven" or "preferred" to see if in fact that .030" makes a difference - for good , bad , no difference?

Is the slide on the ejection port "straight" upwards to opening , or is does it have a slight bevel ? Hard to describe , what I'm trying to ask if one looks at the port and that metal, parallel to rail or is there a "angle" from inside out ( bevel) before that bottom of port is straight/ parallel to rail.

Okay not a tech writer , but could / would that angle cause a slight hesitation allowing just enough time for case to get dinged?

" <" or " / " versus "--"
 
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