GI Springer: The Inside Story

[1911Tuner]

Dumb?

Howdy Steve,

NOT dumb. Valid questions and assumptions.

You asked:

What if you took a known extractor , with the specs "proven" or "preferred" to see if in fact that .030" makes a difference - for good , bad , no difference?

I intend to do just that. The hook should be .032 to .035 long...and
.002 inch can make a difference as to just when it turns loose of the rim.
If the case gets loose a little earlier or later, it surely can affect things.

The port has the bevel from the inside, which gives the case a little more
room to move before it hits the bottom edge...and thus a little more time.
It's as much about the timing of the event as it is about the excape route,
which is what extended ejectors are all about...Timing. They kick the
brass loose from the hook earlier in the cycle....which sometimes works
to out advantage, and sometimes not.

The shape of the ejector nose affects it too. More precisely, WHERE the
ejector contacts the rim determines what direction the case heads. Generally, the higher on the rim it hits, the more straight up it flies...The
lower it hits, the more straight out. To get it straight out of a small, GI
port...ya gotta hit that sucker juuust right.

Later on!

Tuner

 

[Old Fuff]

Tuner:

In years long gone by they used to issue USGI National Match .45’s to competitors at the National Pistol Match’s held at Camp Perry each year. Getting dinged mouths on ejected brass was routine and something the Army didn’t worry about as they didn’t reload, but threw the stuff (sob) away. Civilian competitors on the other hand reloaded their ammunition and so begged the armorers to “fix the gun.†They were not allowed to alter the ejection port, but usually eliminated the cause by adjusting the extractor (they were good ones of course) and the angle on the ejector. I have noticed that pre-World War Two pistols – both GI and commercial – don’t exhibit this condition as often, and I believe that’s because of proper parts that were correctly fitted. These days I suppose lowering the port (sometimes to the slide rails) is the politically correct thing to do, but I’d see if the dinging couldn’t be corrected by adjusting the extractor and ejector, just for the challenge. Obviously it can be done.

As an aside: Browning believed is small ejection ports for some reason. All of his early Colt and Fabrique Nationale pistols had them. The Colt 1903/08 Pocket Automatics and 1908 Vest Pocket Automatic are good examples. Never the less they functioned reliably, and in my experience didn’t damage the brass.

 

[1911Tuner]

Ding-No Ding

Howdy Fuff.

Yep...I'm workin' on the extractor and the angle on the ejector nose as we speak. I've just about got it, but still not quite there. I think it's gonna take a modification or a different extractor, since this one is lettin' the
case off the hook too easy...

As it stands, the case mouths are just barely tipping the port as they
exit. Not enough of a crimp to make it necessary to straighten the
mouth for the die...but enough that it's gettin' on my anal retentive
nerves. It may just be a matter of rolling the top inside edge of the port a little, since it's sharp as a knife blade.

Keep yer chubby little fingers crossed...I've about got it!

Tuner

 

[Old Fuff]

>> I think it's gonna take a modification or a different extractor ... <<

Somehow I'm not surprised. Is there, or was there, any indication that the factory did anything except put the part into the slide, maybe check the tension, and let it go at that?

 

[sm]

Well...

I thought the original port was designed to promote reliability by keeping foreign matter out.
Dunno, stands to reason if a something allows stuff "out" easier - stuff gets "in" easier.

I guess I'm wired weird. JMB , like many folks had a reason for doing some things the way did. Probably like things, designed for a task and when said specs are altered the domino effect comes into play and other stuff needs adjusting.

Makes sense the extractor and ejector have to be tuned in order to be effective / reliable. Thus the port size no big deal.

Keeping sand, seeds, and whatever else could concievably get into the pistol probably more of a priority than saving brass - especially when some other fella is throwing brass in your direction.

Lets just say personally if I'm in a situation where bullets are incoming, I'm in fear of my life, etc., ...saving brass is the last thing on my mind.

Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement, keeping my head down, using cover, moving and reliability of gun and the ammo in said gun...just to mention a few more pressing matters...at such a time.

Just the way I'm wired.

 

[BluesBear]

ejection ports

Dear AbbyTuner,

I have been lowering the ejection port and beveling its inside edge on my Colts for over 25 years now. Just enought to stop denting the case mouth.
I also have been know to tinker with the "nose" of the ejector to get better/more consistant ejection.

I notice that most of the newer guns seem to have an outside beveled cut rearward of the port. I think they call this "flaring". Does this really serve any purpose? I must confess that I neglected to do this to my pistols as well as those of others.
How did I manage to shoot all those thousands of rounds from those dozen or so guns without it that I owned all of those years with out damaging my brass? Should I be ashamed of being so uncaring? Where did I go wrong?

signed,

Dingfree Brassmouth III

 

[sm]

Dingfree Brassmouth III

LOL!

 

[1911Tuner]

re:

Fuff said/asked:

Is there, or was there, any indication that the factory did anything except put the part into the slide, maybe check the tension, and let it go at that?

'Bout it, I'm 'fraid. The bottom of the wall is beveled to let the rim slip
under the hook, but the bottom corner of the hook itself was sharp and square. The tension was...pretty good. Could have been a little more
on it, but it worked.
__________________________

Dear Dingfree,

The bullet-shaped cut at the rear of the port is known as a rollover
notch, and it allows the case to..well...roll over and out without bangin' into the edge of the port. It tends to kick the case out on an angle, which is
conducive to good relations with the shooter in the bay immediately to your right...who would be doin' the Hot Brass Bunny Hop if your brass
happened to find its way down his shirt due to a 90 degree 2 O'Clock
ejection path.

The "flare" is done on the front of the port...just in the bottom radius.
It lets us effect a live-round ejection with extended ejectors and ball
ammo, which tends to be a bit long for that operation with extended ejectors.

If the extractor is correctly tuned, and the ejector correctly shaped...and
you eat your veggies and brush immediately after every meal, your brass
will get out at 2 O'Clock, miss the edge of the port, and land in a small bucket 5 or 6 feet away immediately to your right.

Regards,
TunerGail Van TweakerBuren

P.S.

Steve...You ain't wired weird...but I kinda wonder about that BluesBear feller sometimes...Know whut Ah mean?

 

[45auto]

Ha,
I've never understood the "flaring" either. I have a Colt that doesn't ding brass and it's not flared...it is lowered though!

It can't be for looks IMO, it is ugly. Perhaps the flaring was developed for calibers other than 45, i.e. race guns, etc...don't know? Maybe someone didn't know how to get the brass out in one piece and grabbed the dremel and... .

Edit: Posted this before Tuner gave the explanation.

 

[walking arsenal]

What does MIM stand for and what makes these parts bad?

 

[Old Fuff]

Metal Injection Molded - a method being used to fabricate parts for many things, including firearms. When the particular part matches the method it seems to work, although we have no long term experience to go by.

When the method is used to make parts that don't match the method a number of problems have developed. This has been especially true when the process has be used to make certain parts used in Browning/Colt 1911 design pistols. Use the forum's search feature on the Home Page with a keyword "MIM" and you will find plenty of past threads on this subject.