Girlfriend/wife with warped views on self-defense?

[Polishrifleman]

Time is Good

Always had guns always will, a part of my life prior to meeting my wife.

Big change when we started to have kids. SAVE THE CHILDREN! We had been married 5yrs and not a single problem, word, discussion but boy howdy did we start conversing when little ones started walking, opening drawers etc....

It's a fact of life as long as both side remain rational you can work through it, there are some great suggestions above. By the way, we still have guns!!

 

[Mr Kablammo]

Patience and steady accumulation of reality checks is the key. The NRA has a column in each magazine called 'The Armed Citizen' or something similar. It has many stories of successful self-defense use of firearms. Take for example, the non-use of a firearm in CT. The family was seized and the daughters set on fire. Is that a good example of an impenatrible home? Home invasion is a very real danger.

Are you a member of the NRA yet?

FWIW, some people would rather feel safe and be unsafe than to be safe and feel unsafe.

 

[jlbraun]

I'm not the only nerd here!
Even the mods play D&D, how lovely!

Yeah, but the +5 Moderatorial Killing Stick of Infinite Suffering is in the Dark Realms Expansion, which means buying another book.

 

[Pilgrim]

She just thinks I'm incredibly paranoid to want a gun for SD and probably thinks the whole hobby in general is silly.

Has she given you a list of 'approved' hobbies you can take up?

Pilgrim

 

[hotsauce]

Here's a few tips from some of the leasons I had to learn the hard way.1) Locks are only put on to keep honest people out. If I was a criminal and wanted in your home NOTHING will stop me!2) A severe cold storm can delay respone time with icy roads.Hmm.. New England you say. How cold does it get up there around Christmas when break-in's are at there peek?3) Thats B.S.,If you are close enough for the criminal and yourself to get in a struggle for the weapon you are to close! Plan ahead for stuff! Get her to go into the master closset/bathroom dialing 911. Then you take up position on a far wall using the bed for cover. As soon as he makes his way in that room, provided no kids are at home, he's your's!4) B.S., fun for you though....Roleplaying might change her mind. And if she manages to get you down just remeber that you have'nt had your Meth today!5) That's like gambling with the 2 most precious chips on the table....YOUR LIVES! And we all know the house always wins!6) So the people breaking into your house with guns and masks are the Grim Reaper? I know the Grim Reaper and those worthless guys are not him! They have been know to play with a few dead bodies though! So dont feel bad about taking a few less scum bags off the earth.

 

[AlaskaErik]

My wife grew up in SoCal and was never around guns until her first marriage. And that experience was to have an abusive husband hold a loaded gun to her head and threaten to kill her. But she's never had a problem with me carrying and she tells me she feels safe with me. Sometimes she has to go to an unsavory client's house and she has me accompany her because she knows I'll protect her. At least she's pretty rational about firearms, considering her past.

 

[Geno]

Well, time for me to make a rational post. First, I am taken back by the numerous stereotypical, gender comments in the original post. Let me make one fact clear as to my thinking: it ain’t a gender issue! It's an education issue!

I see so much "affirmation bias" to the original post that I hardly know where to begin. What we have here is a failure to communicate. You see, not all people understand the facts and the timelines associated with break-in. Those of us, both men and women, who are fortunate enough to have been trained, and who have seen the data need to communicate with those who have not had that advantage.

I know from experience, and from education, that if I had not had my firearm on my person on one occasion that I would in all probability be dead today. Is that because I am a man?! I could never have gotten to the vault in time had I delayed. We need to rely on more rational educating people and less on perpetuating gender biasing. Let me close by saying that my wife and my daughter are danged glad that I carry my firearms 24/7 where legal.

#3,800

 

[littlegator]

I took the required course and got my license to carry (took only 7 months of waiting). My first firearm is going to be a shotgun, mainly for HD purposes.

Good thing you got that CCW license, it will make it easier to carry concealed your shotgun - kinda look like the Highlander with his sword. Just kidding, I knew what you meant...

My wife didn't like the fact that I wanted to get a gun at first, but then I took her shooting. Now she doesn't mind and is more comfortable with it in the house.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

it ain’t a gender issue! It's an education issue!

Are we trying to be PC here? How many posts do we read that start out with "my husband does not want me to have a gun for SD"?!?

I disagree, but not entirely. It is both. I believe men are much more prepared, mentally, to confront an attack. That DOES NOT mean that a woman who sees her child being threatened will not fight to the death. It means that she does not think about it like a man, nor does she prepare for it in advance quite like a man. Women are not comfortable with the idea of fighting or defending one's life with deadly force (and I can't totally say that I blame them either). The action of self-defense is a very serious topic. We are talking about the taking of another's life, in order to save our's or another's life/lives. Couple that with a woman who has no experience with guns, outside of movies and media, and you have someone who SEEMS like she does not want to defend herself. However, put her in a position of having a child who depends on her for safety and the viewpoint changes, to varying degrees.

Now the flip-side... Suggest going shooting, to a man who has no experience with guns, and you will possibly have a range partner. I did not grow up around guns. I met my first friend who carried only 2 and a half years ago. I asked "why do you carry?" and he answered. It took about a 10 minute conversation to convince me that, "yes, it is a good idea to be able to defend yourself".

I am single and I meet/date a lot of new girls often. I like to get a feel for where they stand on self-defense and guns, before I even remotely suggest that I might be someone who owns a gun. The fear of guns from women is shocking, as well as their concept of what is a suitable defense against an attacker. Some of them can be saved from the "feelings of safety", but some of them are helpless without some serious therapy. Yes, I am going to remain single for a long, long time.

 

[littlegator]

Just a note, before somebody says something stupid about 50% of the population and I have to bludgeon them in the head with my +5 Moderatorial Killing Stick of Infinite Suffering.

I think this quote has survival potential on the "best of" list. I don't think my +3 body armor with ring of infinate healing will be sufficient for self defense, therefore, you won't hear any stupid quips from me.

 

[antsi]

--------quote-----------
1) A house with normal everyday safety measures is impenetrable.
2) The cops will always show up before the bad guys can get in.
3) Having a firearm in a SD situation will result in you getting shot (not them apparently).
4) An average sized unarmed woman can defend herself from an intruder(s).
5) If an intruder(s) is sufficiently armed, or manages to overcome us, we should just hope he has mercy.
6) Intentionally not arming yourself and then being killed by an intruder(s) is an acceptable outcome due to some sort of fate.
--------------------

Notice a common thread?

All but #6 are wishful thinking. They are pleasant ways to dispel unpleasant thoughts.

Even #6 is somewhat akin to wishful thinking, because it absolves the individual from responsibility. It's something like saying "if, in the unlikely event that magical thinking doesn't protect you, then there's really nothing you can do."

This woman may live out the rest of her life in magical thinking happy land. Hopefully so. She may, at some point, encounter reality. Hopefully not (for her sake).

I don't think this makes it impossible to get along with this person. It will make your life interesting if this is a regular pattern with her and you stay together.

 

[mgregg85]

I was kinda in the same boat as you when it comes to girlfriend/inlaws with weird self defense views. When I first started dating my girlfriend she wasn't really against self defense but said she couldn't bring herself to hurting anyone else to protect her own life. I've been trying to educate her on the subject of self defense and firearms and now, almost 2 years later she wants to get a CCW and has picked out a revolver she would like to get. Now her mother is a different story altogether. She is very afraid of guns of all kinds and TASER's/mace. She has said she would never allow a gun in her house unless it was locked and hidden(her husband/my girlfriend's dad) has a shotgun that he keeps locked up and hidden). She is afraid that someone could get the gun/taser/mace and use it against her. Whenever the subject of CCW/self defense comes up she will ussually only say something about being afraid of them using it against her and I will generally say that I much prefer to have the chance to defend myself at least and if they want to try and take the weapon they are welcome to try at their own risk.

 

[Green Lantern]

"Have any of you run into this?"
Being single isn't ALL bad! But for pity's sake, DO address the issue before your relationship goes any farther! Else we'll start a pool for when you need a "My SO said 'it's the gun or me!'" thread!

"On a related side note, it has also gotten me thinking about women. Is this a natural viewpoint for your average woman? I started thinking about all of the prominent anti-gunners out there. I couldn't think of 1 man - they are all women."

No, I know PLENTY of "Average women" that think self-defense, some to the point of being as willing as I would be to give a BG a case of lead poisoning if there was no other alternative.

Think Mike Bloomberg, Bill Clinton, Rudy Guliani, Barack Obama, Paul Helmke, etc etc etc. Whatever 'defect' in the mind of an anti that makes them come to such irrational conclusions on self-defense, it's not gender related.

 

[ZeSpectre]

To the OP.
Get this issue settled before you go any further in the relationship. Do you want to trust your future (and that of any possible kids) to someone who not only ignores the real world, but makes up fantasies to rationalize it all away when confronted with real, grown-up, questions?

 

[Geno]

mgregg85 said:

I was kinda in the same boat as you when it comes to girlfriend/inlaws with weird self defense views. When I first started dating my girlfriend she wasn't really against self defense but said she couldn't bring herself to hurting anyone else to protect her own life.

This viewpoint is shared by men and women alike, and in my personal and professional life I hear it 50/50...both genders. The common strand of thread that I see in all of these people, is that not one danged one of them has ever had to save their own life, or some other significant person's life.

I can assure you that as you stand there and look at the projectiles in a S&W .357, or into the massive hole of a shotgun barrel...from the "wrong end" that your thoughts of life and death become eminently clear!

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Despite some flaws in parallelism, I'll still suggest that you and she discuss the recent triple murder in Cheshire, CT. It happens that in that case the doors were NOT LOCKED (!), and the family had an alarm system that they did not turn on (!!). But ... it does serve to demonstrate graphically what sort of "mercy" you can look forward to from home invaders.

The two perps in that crime were both habitual offenders, but apparently no previous assaults or weapons charges, just burglaries and such. But this time, they went all out. They beat the father (a doctor) almost to death with a baseball bat. They raped the mother and at least one of the two daughters. They then strangled the mother, tied the two girls to their beds, and set the house on fire. Here's a link to one of the early reports; you can Google up more detail if you need it.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/23/home.invasion.ap/index.html

Yeah, I'd say skipping the self-defense and relying on the tender mercies of the invaders sounds like a just DANDY plan.

Have her call the local police department, tell them where you live, and ask what the average response time might reasonably be at 02:30 in the morning. Then ask how many officers and how many cars are on duty for the night shift, and what the response time will be if one or more cars are on prior calls.

 

[yesit'sloaded]

My mother has been like this forever (tolerant but can't see why it is needed) and my dad got around it by having hunting weapons that did double duty as home defense guns. We never had handguns,but I'm sure that the side by side 16 gauge would have solved any problems of the burglar kind. It was pretty good for duck,deer,squirrel,rabbit, and quail too.

 

[orionengnr]

I've seen this posted before, but it bears repeating:

Cal 911. Then call and order a pizza.

See which one gets there first.

 

[chris in va]

Dope, my (female) friend was the same way, just not quite as extreme. She felt I was being paranoid carrying all the time and actually made fun of me on occasion.

What brought her around or at least shut her up was reading various SD stories in the papers and online. I used to read these to her before bed and she actually started looking forward to the 'bedtime stories'.

Heck, just yesterday I was watching an episode of 'Cops'. No motive was given yet, but a guy was lying dead in the grass with a handgun next to him and he had gloves on. Turns out the guy had thrown a brick through the sliding door and was in process of entering when the homeowner shot him.

Your girlfriend needs to understand the world isn't all Tinky Winky and running through fields of daisies.

BTW now that she's comfortable with my firearms and has been to the range a few times (she likes my Saiga) she makes sure I leave my 357 on the nightstand before I head out somewhere for the weekend.

 

[Geno]

Well, I can only say God bless the FEMALE Governor of Michigan...a Democrat even, who signed "shall issue MCPL" into law! Oh yeah, and SHE grew up in Canada.

An additional thought...of the professors that I have "converted" into gun-packing shootists...thus far 100% are females...3 of them! Two males are presently pending...their only problem is enough money to purchase a pistol.

 

[vynx]

We hear this kind of irrational, illogical thought process about women because this is a gun forum that mostly men visit.

But, I have talked with Guys at work (maybe not MEN if you know what I mean) that think (no thats the wrong word) have the same mistaken beliefs.

I have heard guys say if everyone carried a gun they'd be shooting each other on the freeway! Or, the infamous, the criminal will take it away and use it on me. Or, the well that just means my time is up. I HATE that dumb thought process or lack thereof but until they experience something they just bury their heads in the sand.

My wife used to think like your girlfriend, she didn't care one way or the other about my owning guns though since I let her know early on that I owned a few. She never wanted me to leave one out for her while I was gone though.

One day I came home a day early and came in the back door at around 3;30 am - I was surprised the dogs didn't make any noise (they usually love it when I get home ... maybe it has something to do with dinnertime?)

Anyway, I decided to quietly annouce myself while I was still in the hallway - and she was waiting in bed with the .38 special loaded and pointing at the door.

So, even though they may question you, it does make an impression.

 

[bdjansen]

To the OP:

So she has a different view on things. So? They don't sound "warped".

You probably are a little paranoid. A lot of people on here are paranoid. I'm a little paranoid. So? Doesn't mean that it's bad or that it is the only way to think.

You don't need facts or statistics. Just tell her you like guns. She didn't say you can't have them.

Tell her that YOU feel safer with them. There is no reason for you to argue with her to try and convince her to think like you. That'll just make her mad and resent the topic more.

And leave it at that. She will respect you more and I would bet that in time she will even want to go to the range with you.

My wife didn't want me to get my first gun. But she is coming to the range with me on friday. And bringing at least one girlfriend. It doesn't mean she is into guns. But she is a lot different then she was.

 

[Geno]

vynx:

Very cool example! My wife recently, and completely out of the blue, asked me about getting her CCW. Dang! I was one happy man! My little girl, 13 years, brags about having, "...the biggest firearms collectiion in her school, probably larger than all of the other students combined." So, I'm a lucky man...I have 2 significant women in my life who are pro gun!

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

They don't sound "warped".

Posted by Dope:

why you would need a firearm to protect yourself from an intruder...
she thought that my possession of a firearm would make an intruder "nervous" and perhaps make him more likely to shoot me than if I wasn't armed...
she could "take care of herself"...
then oh well, it was "her time"...
1) A house with normal everyday safety measures is impenetrable.
2) The cops will always show up before the bad guys can get in.
3) Having a firearm in a SD situation will result in you getting shot (not them apparently).
4) An average sized unarmed woman can defend herself from an intruder(s).
5) If an intruder(s) is sufficiently armed, or manages to overcome us, we should just hope he has mercy.
6) Intentionally not arming yourself and then being killed by an intruder(s) is an acceptable outcome due to some sort of fate.

Well, I can see where Dope found it to be appropriate to use the word "warped".

 

[bdjansen]

Well, I can see where Dope found it to be appropriate to use the word "warped".

You are hearing the argument from his side. I'm sure if she read his post over she would feel that she is being misrepresented. But I can understand what she is trying to say because I've heard it before. And "warped" just sounds like he is being a little hard on her.

I just think the OP is overreacting. That she feels different is not a reason to have to argue or change her mind. Just bring the guns home and show that you can own them in a responsible, safe and mature manor. Even better, show her that this is a serious hobby that you really enjoy. She'll come around. Like I said before, she will probably want to come shoot too after a while. No arguments required.