Autolycus
Member
Does anyone else find it funny how people are making fun of their carbomb making skills, which leads me to ask, can you do better?
Glasgow Airport. Is that the best they can do?
- Thread starter Kentak
- Start date
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Thefabulousfink
Member
Let's think like the enemy for a moment.....
You are an muslim sympathetic to al-queada, you have degrees in electrical engineering and chemistry. Is al-queada going to have you build and detonate a car bomb in the US or UK where you will likely die or be captured, or are they going to move you to a safe location in Iran, Syria, or Pakistan where you can build roadside bombs for US troops in Iraq and Afganistan?
On the other hand, you are an ignorant 17 year old muslim who hates the US, where do you think you'll be going?
You are an muslim sympathetic to al-queada, you have degrees in electrical engineering and chemistry. Is al-queada going to have you build and detonate a car bomb in the US or UK where you will likely die or be captured, or are they going to move you to a safe location in Iran, Syria, or Pakistan where you can build roadside bombs for US troops in Iraq and Afganistan?
On the other hand, you are an ignorant 17 year old muslim who hates the US, where do you think you'll be going?
Thefabulousfink
Member
Tecumseh- How hard do you think it is? You have a working car, a driver willing to die, and some home made explosives. If you want to know how hard that is to come by, just ask Timothy McVeigh.
p35
Member
The thought had crossed my mind that it was a mistake to pull this in Scotland- I have some Scotch in my blood, and more on a good night- but since the Act of Union I figured they're all in it together.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Right. First, they can and do operate just about anywhere they want to in the world.
Second, they don't have any known absolute schedules to keep.
Third, their forces are multinational, almost any age, of several races, occupations, etc.
Fourth, they are long range planners.
Fifth, the believe in their fight and ultimate success.
Sixth, the best they can do, as noted so far, is kill thousands in a singular compound event and shut down financial markets and airline in the world's most powerful country that cost the US billions of dollars. They can hit multiple embassies around the world at nearly the same time if they so desire. They can blow up Marine barracks in Beruit or Saudi Arabia with huge bombs.
Was Glascow and London the best they could do? Nope, but look at the successful havoc they created in spite of the success of the destruction.
coltrane679
Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2004
- Messages
- 377
As is often the case, people don't define their terms--like who, exactly, is "they"?
Sav .250
Member
Kentak:
I`ll bet the people on site thank the Almighty that they were just what
you said.
Just think of what might have been.
I`ll bet the people on site thank the Almighty that they were just what
you said.
Just think of what might have been.
Creature
Member
Gasoline used in conjunction with several large propane bottles is very explosive.
Easily. I'm just glad they're unclear on the concept. Gunpowder is easily purchased (or made), amonium nitrate is a common fertilizer, they HAVE access to C4 (the explosive belts). That's just the tip of the iceberg. There are SO many ways...
These terrorists aren't morons, they are working out of their field of expertise. Their day jobs are providing medical care. They are part of the 90,000 foreign doctors employed in Britain. Another example of terrorists exploiting the weaknesses of a system.
"Gasoline used in conjunction with several large propane bottles is very explosive."
We just had a demonstration that this is false.
Propane tanks have vents on them.
All that happened was the pressure got high enough to open the vents and create a torch effect.
While it is possible to use propane to create an explosion, heating it with a gasoline fire is not the way.
We just had a demonstration that this is false.
Propane tanks have vents on them.
All that happened was the pressure got high enough to open the vents and create a torch effect.
While it is possible to use propane to create an explosion, heating it with a gasoline fire is not the way.
Creature
Member
Not if they were altered, which doesnt take much. And there are many tanks still available which do not have the safety vent at all.
There are several accidental propane tank explosions on otherwise "safe" propane tanks every year here in this country. And those explosions can be devastating.
coltrane679
Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2004
- Messages
- 377
Actually, most of them are.
People here, and elsewhere, either deliberately (to inflame the situation) or out of ignorance conflate the relatively few hardcore AQ-trained operatives with the host of inept, loser wannabes we usually encounter--such as the morons who talked about blowing up the Sears Tower (no chance whatsoever), blowing up JFK (no chance whatsoever) or having a massacre at Fort Dix (almost no chance whatsoever). Since 9-11 (which involved just such hardcore trained AQ operatives), almost all of the "terrorists" we have been made hysterical over as a nation are utter buffoons. Now, an utter buffoon might actually kill you someday--but he is probably 10,000 times more likely to be some loser from the wrong side of the tracks in your hometown than some foreign "terrorist". Get over it already.
coltrane679
Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2004
- Messages
- 377
The best thing I have read about 95% of the dreaded "terrorists" we face:
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/07/mocking-the-jih.html
You and your reader are precisely right. But more to the point, the American approach of hyperbolizing the threat not only unnecessarily (and cynically) terrifies the public – thereby achieving the ‘terrorists’ aims for them – it also elevates the perpetrators into potential heroes for those Muslims who would imitate them. Instead, we should be denigrating them as the clowns they are.
The effective response is not to declare every kook with a pipe-bomb-dream an existential threat to the country’s survival. They aren’t. The proper response is ridicule. Nothing can deflate the would-be terrorists’ pretensions to power than more embarrassments like this past weekend. Every time they are stopped, the mantra should not be "What’s coming next?" but rather "Seriously. What a bunch of losers."
It's one thing to die walking in the shoes of Saladin. But who wants to blow themselves to bits only to be written off as an ineffective fool? They want to be warriors of God. Don't encourage them by overstating the threat. Expose them as the petulant failures they are. The best way to fight the viral nature of this stuff is not by making it an epic battle but by making it a mundane one.
Can they do damage? Yes, though a gun or two would probably be more effective and efficient than these duct tape and chewing gum contraptions they failed to set off this past weekend. Let's not abase ourselves by putting them on par with Hitler and stoking their sadism and megalomania. They are clowns. Laugh at them.
Time to sack up already--6 years of cowering at every k00k is enough.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/07/mocking-the-jih.html
You and your reader are precisely right. But more to the point, the American approach of hyperbolizing the threat not only unnecessarily (and cynically) terrifies the public – thereby achieving the ‘terrorists’ aims for them – it also elevates the perpetrators into potential heroes for those Muslims who would imitate them. Instead, we should be denigrating them as the clowns they are.
The effective response is not to declare every kook with a pipe-bomb-dream an existential threat to the country’s survival. They aren’t. The proper response is ridicule. Nothing can deflate the would-be terrorists’ pretensions to power than more embarrassments like this past weekend. Every time they are stopped, the mantra should not be "What’s coming next?" but rather "Seriously. What a bunch of losers."
It's one thing to die walking in the shoes of Saladin. But who wants to blow themselves to bits only to be written off as an ineffective fool? They want to be warriors of God. Don't encourage them by overstating the threat. Expose them as the petulant failures they are. The best way to fight the viral nature of this stuff is not by making it an epic battle but by making it a mundane one.
Can they do damage? Yes, though a gun or two would probably be more effective and efficient than these duct tape and chewing gum contraptions they failed to set off this past weekend. Let's not abase ourselves by putting them on par with Hitler and stoking their sadism and megalomania. They are clowns. Laugh at them.
Time to sack up already--6 years of cowering at every k00k is enough.
30 cal slob
Member
so you're saying the Irish build better bombs than these guys did? 
"Not if they were altered, which doesnt take much. And there are many tanks still available which do not have the safety vent at all."
No, every gas tank has a safety vent. It is often a rupture disk built into the valve on high pressure cylinders or an actual relief valve built into the tank itself.
The new valve design prevents overfilling of the tank to ensure an air space.
At about 80% filled the float moves over to close off the inlet.
If a tank is overfilled (no air space left) the slightest heating can result in overpressure (liquids are not very compressible) and the tank vent will open to relieve the excess pressure. The gas vented is than available for all sorts of mayhem.
"There are several accidental propane tank explosions on otherwise "safe" propane tanks every year here in this country. And those explosions can be devastating."
Please document a "tank explosion" that was not actually a leak that allowed propane to collect and was then ignited.
In many cases (and I have actually investigated a few) the tank itself is blown out of the area but still does not rupture.
Even the large explosion over in WVa was traced to a leaking valve.
Leaks allow time for the gas to mix with the air and form an explosive mixture.
All that is then required is a source of ignition.
No, every gas tank has a safety vent. It is often a rupture disk built into the valve on high pressure cylinders or an actual relief valve built into the tank itself.
The new valve design prevents overfilling of the tank to ensure an air space.
At about 80% filled the float moves over to close off the inlet.
If a tank is overfilled (no air space left) the slightest heating can result in overpressure (liquids are not very compressible) and the tank vent will open to relieve the excess pressure. The gas vented is than available for all sorts of mayhem.
"There are several accidental propane tank explosions on otherwise "safe" propane tanks every year here in this country. And those explosions can be devastating."
Please document a "tank explosion" that was not actually a leak that allowed propane to collect and was then ignited.
In many cases (and I have actually investigated a few) the tank itself is blown out of the area but still does not rupture.
Even the large explosion over in WVa was traced to a leaking valve.
Leaks allow time for the gas to mix with the air and form an explosive mixture.
All that is then required is a source of ignition.
DomMega
Member
Would a combination of gasoline, propane cylinders, and nails even work as a bomb? Seems to me it would probably start a big fire rather than a true explosion. These guys appear to have minimal skills at best.
Yes, albeit poor ones. That's what those Columbine nut jobs tried to do in the school cafeteria, minus the nails. They weren't trying to walk through campus shooting innocents, they were trying to blow up the entire cafeteria which would've resulted in hundreds of lives lost. Luckily, they couldn't build such explosive devices correctly and many people are still living today because of it.
These idiots just need to be removed from the face of the earth, period. There's no talking to them, there's no trying to understand them, all they want to do is kill anyone who doesn't believe what they believe. What's to understand?
Yes, albeit poor ones. That's what those Columbine nut jobs tried to do in the school cafeteria, minus the nails. They weren't trying to walk through campus shooting innocents, they were trying to blow up the entire cafeteria which would've resulted in hundreds of lives lost. Luckily, they couldn't build such explosive devices correctly and many people are still living today because of it.
These idiots just need to be removed from the face of the earth, period. There's no talking to them, there's no trying to understand them, all they want to do is kill anyone who doesn't believe what they believe. What's to understand?
cbsbyte
Member
They don't have to be successful in their attacks to actually win, they have already have won by making us give up our freedoms for the false illusion of security. This is far more devastating than any bomb they blow up.
GlowinPontiac
Member
propane cans and fire does not eaqual a bomb. Hell even those little disposable co2 cylinders that have no safety valve do no major damage when tossed into a fire. all they do is split open and sometimes blow some hot coals around.
p35
Member
More on how the Scots deal with terrorists:
BATTLING taxi driver Alex McIlveen faced down the Glasgow Airport terror suspects ... and his courage cost him his favourite pair of trainers and a £30 parking fine.
Dad-of-two Alex punched and kicked the two men after they crashed a Jeep Cherokee loaded with gas canisters into the door of Terminal One.
The 45-year-old booted one of the suspects, whose body was covered in flames, as hard as he could between the legs.
But the man didn't appear to feel the blow, and a police doctor told Alex later that he'd damaged a tendon in his foot.
After the drama, police confiscated Alex's trainers for forensic tests.
And when he went back to the airport to pick up his cab, he was stunned to find that he'd been given a parking ticket.
Alex said: "The police took all the clothes I 'd been wearing so I lost my Nike trainers. They're a good pair too.
"I didn't get out of the police station until late on Saturday night and I found the parking ticket on my cab next day. I couldn't believe it."
Alex, of Glasgow, was one of several hero Scots who took on the men who targeted the airport on Saturday afternoon.
He punched and kicked the passenger from the Jeep, believed to be Iraqi doctor Bilal Abdulla.
Then he went after the driver of the vehicle, even though the heavily-built man was in flames after apparently turning himself into a human torch.
Alex was dropping off a fare at the airport when the attack began.
He said: "I noticed a 4x4 sitting in the middle of the road. Then, as my passenger was paying and getting out, the Jeep rammed into the airport entrance right next to us.
"I couldn't believe what I was seeing.
"The guy in the passenger seat was wearing a white T-shirt. He got out carrying what looked like a petrol bomb and seconds later the Jeep was in flames.
"Then he kicked and punched a man to the ground before punching a policeman square in the face. That's when I saw red. That sort of thing just isn't on.
"I told my passenger to run for her life, then I went for the man in the T-shirt and managed to skelp him in the face. I followed it up by booting him twice.
"By that time some other people had joined in and it seemed like the T-shirt guy was trying to get back into the Jeep.
"Then the driver got out of the car. He was already in flames. It was obvious he was the real psycho of the pair.
"Someone was hosing him down but the flames seemed to jump up again just as it looked like they had gone out.
"It was obvious the driver wanted into the boot of the Jeep for something and I was worried about what it was. I thought it must be a gun.
"He was going crazy, just lashing out at everyone and babbling p*sh in a foreign language the whole time.
"I've heard people say since that he was shouting 'Allah!' but I didn't hear that. It just sounded like a lot of c**p to me.
"I ran for the guy and punched him twice in the face with pretty good right hooks.
"Then I kicked him with full force right in the balls but he didn't go down. He just kept on babbling his rubbish.
"I couldn't believe that he was still standing. I know I would have been floored by that kind of kick."
Alex continued to take on the man, who was lashing out with his fists. He recalled: "He was a big guy and I'm not really a fighter, but his punches were wild and I managed to dodge them and make some good strikes myself.
"Luckily, more people joined in and we managed to beat the guy down. The police apparently caught the other man.
"I don't think the policeman I saw at the scene drew his baton during the whole thing. He should have given it to me - I'd have leathered those guys with it."
Alex added: "After the two guys were restrained, my memory gets a bit blurred. I think I got hit with some of the CS spray the police were firing at them.
"The next thing I knew I was waiting in a room at the airport for an ambulance with another member of the public. He'd been badly beaten by the guy in the T-shirt and he had a broken leg.
"But the paramedics still treated the burned guy first. He was being held by police in the next room ."
Alex spent hours at a Paisley police station telling detectives everything he could remember about the fight.
He said: "It was only after getting there that I really began to think about what had happened. I started shaking like a leaf.
"A police doctor looked me over and said I had damaged a tendon in my foot as a result of the kick I gave the second guy.
"I've got a few pains in my back as well but apart from that I'm unscathed.
"I didn't get out of the police station until late on Saturday night.
"An officer eventually took me home but the police insisted on taking away all the clothes I had been wearing."
Next day, Alex returned to the airport to pick up his red Skoda Octavia.
He said: "I couldn't believe it when I discovered a £30 parking ticket on my cab. Considering I got it while trying to save hundreds of people, I would hope it will be cancelled."
Alex's wife Lynn, 40, said: "He risked his life because he thought people were in danger. He is an absolute hero.
"If he hadn't been there, who knows what would have happened."
Lynn, a catering assistant, added: "The first I knew about what had happened was when I phoned Alex to find out why he was late to pick me up.
"I'd been shopping and he was supposed to meet me, but when I called his mobile he said he was at the police station."
BATTLING taxi driver Alex McIlveen faced down the Glasgow Airport terror suspects ... and his courage cost him his favourite pair of trainers and a £30 parking fine.
Dad-of-two Alex punched and kicked the two men after they crashed a Jeep Cherokee loaded with gas canisters into the door of Terminal One.
The 45-year-old booted one of the suspects, whose body was covered in flames, as hard as he could between the legs.
But the man didn't appear to feel the blow, and a police doctor told Alex later that he'd damaged a tendon in his foot.
After the drama, police confiscated Alex's trainers for forensic tests.
And when he went back to the airport to pick up his cab, he was stunned to find that he'd been given a parking ticket.
Alex said: "The police took all the clothes I 'd been wearing so I lost my Nike trainers. They're a good pair too.
"I didn't get out of the police station until late on Saturday night and I found the parking ticket on my cab next day. I couldn't believe it."
Alex, of Glasgow, was one of several hero Scots who took on the men who targeted the airport on Saturday afternoon.
He punched and kicked the passenger from the Jeep, believed to be Iraqi doctor Bilal Abdulla.
Then he went after the driver of the vehicle, even though the heavily-built man was in flames after apparently turning himself into a human torch.
Alex was dropping off a fare at the airport when the attack began.
He said: "I noticed a 4x4 sitting in the middle of the road. Then, as my passenger was paying and getting out, the Jeep rammed into the airport entrance right next to us.
"I couldn't believe what I was seeing.
"The guy in the passenger seat was wearing a white T-shirt. He got out carrying what looked like a petrol bomb and seconds later the Jeep was in flames.
"Then he kicked and punched a man to the ground before punching a policeman square in the face. That's when I saw red. That sort of thing just isn't on.
"I told my passenger to run for her life, then I went for the man in the T-shirt and managed to skelp him in the face. I followed it up by booting him twice.
"By that time some other people had joined in and it seemed like the T-shirt guy was trying to get back into the Jeep.
"Then the driver got out of the car. He was already in flames. It was obvious he was the real psycho of the pair.
"Someone was hosing him down but the flames seemed to jump up again just as it looked like they had gone out.
"It was obvious the driver wanted into the boot of the Jeep for something and I was worried about what it was. I thought it must be a gun.
"He was going crazy, just lashing out at everyone and babbling p*sh in a foreign language the whole time.
"I've heard people say since that he was shouting 'Allah!' but I didn't hear that. It just sounded like a lot of c**p to me.
"I ran for the guy and punched him twice in the face with pretty good right hooks.
"Then I kicked him with full force right in the balls but he didn't go down. He just kept on babbling his rubbish.
"I couldn't believe that he was still standing. I know I would have been floored by that kind of kick."
Alex continued to take on the man, who was lashing out with his fists. He recalled: "He was a big guy and I'm not really a fighter, but his punches were wild and I managed to dodge them and make some good strikes myself.
"Luckily, more people joined in and we managed to beat the guy down. The police apparently caught the other man.
"I don't think the policeman I saw at the scene drew his baton during the whole thing. He should have given it to me - I'd have leathered those guys with it."
Alex added: "After the two guys were restrained, my memory gets a bit blurred. I think I got hit with some of the CS spray the police were firing at them.
"The next thing I knew I was waiting in a room at the airport for an ambulance with another member of the public. He'd been badly beaten by the guy in the T-shirt and he had a broken leg.
"But the paramedics still treated the burned guy first. He was being held by police in the next room ."
Alex spent hours at a Paisley police station telling detectives everything he could remember about the fight.
He said: "It was only after getting there that I really began to think about what had happened. I started shaking like a leaf.
"A police doctor looked me over and said I had damaged a tendon in my foot as a result of the kick I gave the second guy.
"I've got a few pains in my back as well but apart from that I'm unscathed.
"I didn't get out of the police station until late on Saturday night.
"An officer eventually took me home but the police insisted on taking away all the clothes I had been wearing."
Next day, Alex returned to the airport to pick up his red Skoda Octavia.
He said: "I couldn't believe it when I discovered a £30 parking ticket on my cab. Considering I got it while trying to save hundreds of people, I would hope it will be cancelled."
Alex's wife Lynn, 40, said: "He risked his life because he thought people were in danger. He is an absolute hero.
"If he hadn't been there, who knows what would have happened."
Lynn, a catering assistant, added: "The first I knew about what had happened was when I phoned Alex to find out why he was late to pick me up.
"I'd been shopping and he was supposed to meet me, but when I called his mobile he said he was at the police station."
Calibre44
Member
Here's another example of how Britain deals with Terrorists
Problem:
Terrorists invade the Iranian Embassy in London and take hostages
Solution:
One SAS Squad with 15 minutes to spare
Result:
All Hostages resuced bar one – killed by a Terrorist and 5 Terrorists killed and one arrested (the only reason he wasn’t killed was by that time the news media’s cameras were on him)
The Assault:
In preparation for storming the building, the landing paths of planes into Heathrow Airport were lowered and British Gas began noisy drilling in an adjoining street to provide noise cover as the SAS moved into position.
Prior to the attack the terrorists and hostages had been observed with fiber optic probes that had been inserted through the shared wall of an adjoining building. Microphones were used to eavesdrop from the building next door. The raid had been rehearsed in a mock-up of the building in a nearby army barracks in central London.
The assault started at 19:23 hours on May 5, 1980 at the rear of the building with the detonation of a charge in a stairwell, twenty-three minutes after the body of a dead hostage had been thrown from the building. Simultaneously, electrical power was cut to the building. Some SAS men entered the embassy from the roof, using explosive devices to blow in the window frames. Stun grenades were used to disorientate the terrorists during the attack.
Five of the six terrorists were killed and nineteen hostages were saved. One of the terrorists was later found to have 76 shots in his corpse. One hostage was killed by a terrorist during the attack.
Problem:
Terrorists invade the Iranian Embassy in London and take hostages
Solution:
One SAS Squad with 15 minutes to spare
Result:
All Hostages resuced bar one – killed by a Terrorist and 5 Terrorists killed and one arrested (the only reason he wasn’t killed was by that time the news media’s cameras were on him)
The Assault:
In preparation for storming the building, the landing paths of planes into Heathrow Airport were lowered and British Gas began noisy drilling in an adjoining street to provide noise cover as the SAS moved into position.
Prior to the attack the terrorists and hostages had been observed with fiber optic probes that had been inserted through the shared wall of an adjoining building. Microphones were used to eavesdrop from the building next door. The raid had been rehearsed in a mock-up of the building in a nearby army barracks in central London.
The assault started at 19:23 hours on May 5, 1980 at the rear of the building with the detonation of a charge in a stairwell, twenty-three minutes after the body of a dead hostage had been thrown from the building. Simultaneously, electrical power was cut to the building. Some SAS men entered the embassy from the roof, using explosive devices to blow in the window frames. Stun grenades were used to disorientate the terrorists during the attack.
Five of the six terrorists were killed and nineteen hostages were saved. One of the terrorists was later found to have 76 shots in his corpse. One hostage was killed by a terrorist during the attack.
- Status
