Glock 21 malfunction/kaboom questions

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
1,627
So..


Next autoloader is going to be a Glock or an XD. Can't afford a USP or another P220-226-229, FNP is unproven compared to the first two (although the design is pretty much ideal I just can't trust it yet) Beretta m9 slide issue and "brittle metal" stories scare me..

Down to a g19, a g21, an XD 45 4"

I prefer the .45, but I include the g19 because I really haven't heard a single bad thing about it. If you looked up the current definition of a combat/defensive pistol, there'd probably be a picture of the g19 let's face it. Haven't heard bad things about it (except people that just hate Glocks period). I'm kinda favoring the G21 but I've heard a lot of stories about these blowing up....even in departmental testing...

from what you know, honestly, with standard 230 gr ball and hollow ammo, is and will the g21 ever be a hand grenade?? Honestly. Because of the lower pressure, would one expect the .45 acp pistols to last even longer than a 9mm? Seems like it'd WAY less prone to malfunction than a 9 or 40...
 
Here are a few things that I've read as evidence that 9mm GLOCKs are better than .45 ACP:

1. I recall there was a small enduro race/contest between 1911's and GLOCKs. The .45 ACP GLOCKS ended up having a failure rate similar to the 1911's. But the criteria of the contest meant that user error could be a cause of failure, such as mag not seated all the way. Or thumb accidentally setting the slide stop. There wasn't any good info on the actual malfunctions that happened. I also have to wonder what kind of ammo people brought to an event where they expected to shoot thousands of rounds of expensive .45 ACP.

2. Some PD's had issues with their G21's when they put flashlights on the rail.

3. The G21 has been criticized for having too thin a breechface. There are at least 2 documented cases I've found where dry-firing has resulted in a cracked breechface.

4. Some kaboom's have occured with reloads and/or lead bulllets. If you shoot lead bullets, buy an aftermarket barrel with standard rifling. If you reload, then don't screw up, and the GLOCK won't blow up.

5. Some argue that the slightly tapered side walls of the 9mm luger make it inherently more reliable, being easier to extract.

6. A lot of people just simply state "the gun was designed for 9mm, so it's better in 9mm." Well, the G21 was designed for 10mm and .45 ACP, not for 9mm. So this argument is pretty weak for multiple reasons.

G21 is one of my favorite pistols. None of those "reasons" bother me.
 
Last edited:
hmmm....

I've seen some torture test videos of the g21 that are pretty insane...I don't reload or normally shoot reloads (to my knowledge)..


still a dead heat between the 3. The XD would be my clear choice in 4" but I'm not as sold on the reliability of an XD as the Glock which is a shame because my 5" XD .45 tactical was the most accurate pistol I've ever shot and far and away the most comfortable .45 I've shot for me and I own a P220...main concern is the ability to be relied on come what may, period. In the heat of the moment and long term as well.
 

So...let me remind you that issues with various firearms will come up, and usually they will be fixed, although sometimes they will not. You may keep hearing about issues with certain guns that are no longer issues with newly manufactured ones, for example.

Next autoloader is going to be a Glock or an XD. Can't afford a USP or another P220-226-229, FNP is unproven compared to the first two (although the design is pretty much ideal I just can't trust it yet) Beretta m9 slide issue and "brittle metal" stories scare me..

First pick the ones that you actually like to hold and handle, and if possible rent them and shoot them to see which ones work best for you (bearing in mind that rental guns sometimes have issues due to neglect). That will answer a lot of questions right off the bat, I think. For example, while I gave serious consideration to the XD, I learned that I didn't like grip safeties in general (really anything that moves when I merely grip the gun). It's a fine gun, and this was perhaps not a deal-breaker, but it was a personal factor that I had not anticipated before trying the gun out.

Regarding the FNP, it's true that it's not proven, and there have been some issues that have come up, so it's still probably in the "teething phase," understandably. I'd only buy it at this point if I really liked it and didn't intend on using it for defensive purposes.

And as for the M9 slide issue, as far as I know that was fixed long ago but keeps coming up regardless. The only major lingering problem with the M9/92FS of which I am aware is a relatively weak locking block that is prone to breakage after a few thousand rounds. People sometimes change them out preemptively like they would springs to avoid unexpected breakages.

Down to a g19, a g21, an XD 45 4"

I prefer the .45, but I include the g19 because I really haven't heard a single bad thing about it.

For what it's worth, the G19 is significantly more susceptible to limp-wristing than just about any modern (or even not so modern) autoloader out there. If you hold it properly, it's one of the most reliable, certainly, and worthy of its legend, but this is its weak point. The G21 is much less likely to fail when limp-wristed for whatever reasons, but it's still more prone than the XD, for example. I don't think this is a huge issue, but for some people it may be.

On the other hand, if you really need a pistol that resists environmental degradation such as corrosion, Glocks are amazingly robust in this regard. XDs had rusting problems early on that have been corrected by now, but I don't think that they or any other pistol can quite match up to Glocks in this regard (Glocks aren't perfect either and can rust, but it's typically extremely hard to get one to).

If you looked up the current definition of a combat/defensive pistol, there'd probably be a picture of the g19 let's face it.

Be careful with this--these are all machines designed by people, and they are all limited by physics, unlike hype. Generally, you trade some things off for others, and while some designs are more optimal than others, there's no need to put any of them on a pedestal.

Haven't heard bad things about it (except people that just hate Glocks period).

Some detractors are envious, while others are tired of the hype, while still others have legitimate gripes and don't see why Glock should be singled out for special consideration. I just go with whatever views and opinions seem the most fair and objective, and suggest that others do the same.

As far as bad things go, besides the limp-wristing issues with all Glocks (albeit some models more than others), their grips don't fit everybody equally well, which applies to every gun basically. Specifically the "hump" bothers some people, while the grip angle is a bigger issue for others, and maybe the texture and cross-section of the grip. It fits many people just fine, too.

Using myself as an example, I would hate the hump on the grip as well as the grip angle if I held it like I would a gun with a shorter trigger reach (inline with my forearm), but since my fingers are slightly short, what happens is that I have to twist my wrist a little, in which case my hand fits perfectly around the hump, which lifts my hand to a nice, high, firm hold, and makes the sharp grip angle work perfectly. Do you see why you have to try these guns out for yourself? I ended up liking the M&P better overall (you might also want to try this one out if you haven't already), but I was still surprised at how very well the Glock fit my hand with a modified hold. However, for some people it's a poor fit no matter what because everybody is different.

I'm kinda favoring the G21 but I've heard a lot of stories about these blowing up....even in departmental testing...

All guns can blow up for various reasons, usually related to ammo. However, I do find it amusing how many Glock aficionados reflexively and immediately blame magazines or ammo if there is even a jam, much less an explosion. No gun is perfect, after all. Watch the 1000-round Glock torture test on YouTube, where every jam was immediately blamed on a bad magazine or bad ammo. That's always a possibility, but then so is the fact that the poor gun was extremely hot (the guide rod actually melted and got ejected, which is not a showstopper) and undoubtedly filthy (could have been limp-wristing, too).

Anyway, regarding the G21, I'm not aware of any major issues with kabooms. Perhaps there was a bad batch of G21s or ammo that caused the issue with some departments. That said, I've always been suspicious of Glocks chambered in .40 S&W (e.g. G22, G23, G27) because of the poor case support of the chamber in stock barrels. Although the issue has undoubtedly become overblown, I think there is a higher incidence of case failures when using .40 S&W Glock barrels made before 2007, which was around when case support was improved. It should be a non-issue with new Glocks, but I for one will not simply dismiss the fact that older Glocks in this caliber left a weak part of cartridge cases unsupported.

from what you know, honestly, with standard 230 gr ball and hollow ammo, is and will the g21 ever be a hand grenade?? Honestly.

Not any more than any other pistol chambered in .45 ACP, to my knowledge.

Because of the lower pressure, would one expect the .45 acp pistols to last even longer than a 9mm? Seems like it'd WAY less prone to malfunction than a 9 or 40...

It depends on a lot of factors, so I couldn't say for sure. I do know that .45 ACP pistols have a long tradition of exploding because of bad ammo, firing out of battery, barrel obstruction, or any of the less common reasons--you name it, it's happened multiple times. :eek: I can only suggest that you only use good ammo, visually inspect each and every cartridge before loading it in a magazine, and stop shooting immediately if you have reason to believe that you just had a squib load.
 
Last edited:
If I were in the market for a poly-frame .45, I'd look at in no particular order:

1) Glock 21-SF. This one fits my hand better and points "right" (unlike the standard 21)

2) Springfield XD. This one points "right" without any trouble whatsoever.

3) Springfield XD-m. This has some enhancement that make it better, but is it better enough to justify the additional cost? To me it is, but it's a personal call. Having interchangeable backstraps can be a biggie. It also splits the difference in barrel length between the 4" and 5" XD

4) Smith and Wesson M&P .45. This one also has interchangeable backstraps, but "only" holds 10 rds in the flush magazine. An extended one holds 14. Available with a thumb safety. The XD also has that option, don't think the XD-m has it available yet.
 
The Glock 19 is my favorite all-around pistol. If I could keep just one for general purpose use, CCW, etc, it would be the 19.

But FWIW, my Glock models 20 and 21 both run perfectly, though I have a lot less rounds through them than my 19s.
 
Glock 21. Can't say enough good things about it. I'm just over the 1000 round mark and not a single ftf or fte. I've probably only cleaned it like 4 times. Either the standard 21 or the 21sf. A word to the wise though do NOT shoot lead rounds.
 
I have an XD45, and had a G21. The Glock is a dead on accurate pistol, and super reliable. It's only knock is that the grip is very large. I haven't tried a G21SF yet. The XD45 is a great pistol, but I don't have enough rounds through it to say if it's as good or better than the G21. As an aside, I had never heard of a glock blowing up until I started reading this site. While any pistol is a mechanical device, and can break, you just don't hear about Glocks breaking in the real world. Normally you hear of 1911s having malfunctions. And, yes, I've owned & shot enough different pistols to like my 1911s, but only trust my polymers.
 
The G21 AKA “Polymer Brick” the miracle of ergonomic design. As noted the 9mm Luger case tapers the 45ACP case tapers also but significantly less. If I were to acquire another polymer pistol in 45ACP it would be either the Glock G21SF or the S&W MP45.
 
I've had a GLOCK 21 and now a GLOCK 21SF for almost 10 years and no issues...it is a handful but beyond that...goes bang everytime I pull the trigger...and I mean bang the way it was desinged to bang...;)
Bill
 
just from what I've heard...I'm not a rich guy so it's hard NOT to take what you hear on the internet into consideration...I really want a 92 INOX in 9mm but not if it has this notoriously short service life that is described from time to time...
 
Glock 21 is a great choice. I'd have no problems trusting one

That said, ANY gun can be a hand grenade. Stuff a squib load in the middle of any gun, and it'll blow up just like the rest of them. Yes, even metal 1911s and revolvers can blow up, and they have
 
Go Glock with confidence. Use quality ammo. Easiest to clean and maintain pistol out there.

The 21 is a great gun. A bit too chunky for CCW though.

As for the 19. Just be sure your CCW ammo is +p or +p+ and that limp wristing problem mostly goes away. You have to hold the gun proper. I noticed alot of woman hold it too low because they are afraid of the slide. Just choke up on it as high as you can get. I've never had mine bite me.

Or get the G23. It deosn't have limp wristing issues. But it hates having a light mounted to it. The Gen4's are rumored to no longer have the weapon light problems.


To the poster that mentioned competitions where failures are recorded. I've been in a couple where failures of pistol or shooter caused significant points to be removed. We did three weekends, 330 rounds each weekend. Glocks, 1911s, and M9's run best in our group. The S&W M&P pistol and revolvers do good as well. Points get taken off if you reload the revolver down low like the IDPA gamers do.

There is allways at least1 Glock in the top 3 most reliable spots at the end of the day. The consistantly most reliable Glock is the 17 and the long slide 9mm and .40 models. (36,37??? I forget) I wouldn't worry about Glock reliability. They do so well in that catagory that many folks go out of there way to bash the few that fail.
 
Last edited:
IIRC, most of the G-21's bad rep came from the Portland P.D. when they got G-21's issued. That problem was traced to bad ammo.
I think most of the other cases were handloads.
I just picked up my second G-21, an older gen 2 model. My first one, gen 3, never gave me any trouble with factory or handloaded ammo.
I shot some 200 grain plated SWC's today and got some terrific groups at 25 yards.
I think the USP .45 or HK 45's are a little better, but for the money, a G-21 is hard to beat.
I paid $400 even for my latest 2nd gen G-21.
 
I've owned all of the above....I like the 21SF better than the XD45 but the XD .45 better than the non-SF21 I like the 19/23 a lot as a carry gun but the 17/22 fits my hand better...the 21SF fits my hand PERFECT! It's a big gun...it's a GOOD big gun though! I also usually have another carry piece that see's more every day use....XD9, G23....right now I'm toting a Sig 2022 9mm all German gun...it's kind of like the XD with a vicer trigger and a little more bulk. It's a nice gun for the money in 9 or .40 with night sights for what a 19 fixed sight will cost or less....might be worth a look....deffinately cheaper than a 21SF without the night sights! Carrys better to...but I love my 21SF! I owned an older 21 as well....I've owned near a dozen GLOCKS over the years...shoot regular factory FMJ and HP ammo and you'll never have an issue with one...the hooror stories are highly inflated...though all guns do have failures from time to time....most are ammo related....90% envolve handloads/reloads and or user issues...reguardless of gun type.
 
decided on a g19. I want another .45 but for the features I want without the ones I don't I have to spend minimum 800 on a USP or trust my dollar to an unproven FNP 45 (a gun that's pretty much my dream autoloader, but the rep for reliability just isn't there yet). So I'm going with the "sure thing" for now and gonna go for a g19.

My concerns now are how does the gen 4 differ from the prior gens? I'm a little concerned with the switch to the dual recoil assemblies...does anyone have a picture of this? Opinions?

I wish I could just get a NIB gen 2 g19!
 
Should have got the FNP45. It's an excellent pistol.

I've put approximately 10,000 rounds through mine and it has had zero malfunctions.

It's probably due for a new recoil spring, as a matter of fact.
 
I have owned a G21SF since they came out. Prior to that, I carried a standard G21. They are big pistols, but they are good guns. Just make sure it fits your hand before you commit.

My G21SF served me well. I dumped some money into it and had a grip reduction done, OD paint job on the lower, SS guide rod, trigger stop, 3.5 connector, Warren Tactical sights, and a LWD barrel. Its a great shooter that never caused me any problems with well over 2K rounds through it.

I still have the G21SF , but it sits in the safe most of the time because I now carry my G17. I just ran 840 rounds through my G17 without cleaning or oiling....it ran like a champ. The last 5 rounds I fired grouped 3" at 25 yards (working on a write up of that particular venture).

I also have a G19RTF2 that I sport from time to time. It isn't my primary carry, but I would carry it in a heartbeat if my situation was different. The G26 is another model that should not be overlooked. I have been very impressed with mine thus far.

If you go with the G19, I believe you will be happy. It is an excellent balance of firepower and concealability. It also handles multiple roles well.

Good Luck and happy shooting.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top