Glock 26 vs. S&WMPc

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Seven High

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I noticed that the S&WMPc has a "witness" hole at the top of the chamber. This was described as such in a recent gun magazine. The Glock 26 does not have this feature. I am wondering if the true purpose of this small hole is to vent away escaping gas during a case separation aka Kaboom. If so, it would be a distinct improvement over the Glock. What are your thoughts?
 
9mm's rarely KB. I never even heard of one KB.

Never heard of the feature you are referring to though.
 
Never heard of a Glock 9mm KB. Re: Glock 26 vs. S&WMPc, I have heard of relibility problems with the M&P compact models. I assume its just growing pains, but it may be like the 1911 and require a longer barrel to cycle reliably.
 
I noticed that the S&WMPc has a "witness" hole at the top of the chamber.

That's probably intended as a loaded chamber indicator. My Springfield 1911 had the same thing, and was described as such in the owners manual.
 
That's probably intended as a loaded chamber indicator. My Springfield 1911 had the same thing, and was described as such in the owners manual.

That's exactly what it is, although I think it's pretty much useless the way they've designed it. Basically it's a hole in the top of the slide, and you have to look directly vertically down into the slide from the top to see if the chamber is loaded (or point the gun up in the air and look horizontally at it). You can't see the indicator when the gun is aimed, and you can't feel it in the dark. Basically you're better off using the old "half rack" chamber check method.

I like my Springfield XD, which has a small indicator that sticks up above the top of the slide. You can see it when the gun is aimed (although it doesn't interfere with sight alignment), and you can feel it in the dark.

Although it's still a good habit to do an old fashion chamber check, regardless of an indicator.
 
I will admit I like the way the chamber indicator is set up on the Springfield XD series. On my HK P2000 and P2000sk the extractor sticks out a little and you can feel it. It also is painted red so that you can see it if there is enough light.
 
Agreed - I don't trust a LCI on a firearm; I verify visually and by feel.

and welcome to the forum, TonyDedo.

Thanks. I got sucked over from another forum on a cross-forum thread, and liked what I saw so much I figured I'd stick around. I didn't mean to jump right into the fire on my first post, but I saw the threat title and it got my blood going.

I jumped through quite a few hoops to get a hold of an M&P 45, and when I finally did I was so disappointed (especially relative to my XD45) that I sold it about six weeks later. The 'load chamber indicator' wasn't a big deal, but was one of the little things that irked me about the design.
 
I guess I take a 50/50 approach when it comes to Loaded Chamber Indicators. On one hand I DO trust a LCI enough to tell that there IS indeed a round in the chamber. However on the other hand I do not trust a LCI to tell me that there IS NOT a round in the chamber, if that makes any sense.
 
Some states have begun to require a "loaded chamber indicator" in order for a handgun to be sold in the state. I believe CA is one of these, MA may be another, and there may be still others. If a gun is designed with one from the start (the P-38 comes immediately to mind as an early example) then dandy. But if you haven't designed that feature in, adding one can be a real engineering challenge.

In the case of the M&P, adding the little hole at the back of the chamber will satisfy the bureaucrats and let them keep selling their wares in California (or wherever) without having to go back to the drawing boards and redesign the whole slide, then change the tooling to manufacture the new design. Whether it does any good or not is largely irrelevant, because it is not a feature that the market is demanding - so doing the minimum is all that a prudent businessman really should do.

Note, though, that if loaded chamber indicators became a feature that gun buyers really wanted, designers would design that feature in from the beginning, would expend some effort to make their indicator better than the competition's, and would spend advertising dollars to trumpet their "better" feature. But in the absence of such consumer demand, there's normally no business reason to add complexity and cost to an already complex and costly product.
 
Cheesey, it makes perfect sense. "All guns are loaded (unless otherwise verified to have an empty chamber)."

I like the HK 2000 solution best, by having the extractor stick out a bit, because it is a built-in feature rather than a device added on. I am fine with the XD solution (but it is pretty sharp) and I find no problem with the witness hole on my M&P (the cheapest and simplest solution). This feature, or the lack of it, does not make a difference in my decision to buy a gun. A manual slide-pull check is always an option, so the LCI is the equivalent of a gun having a "pretty" slide.

At the end of a handgun class, I inserted a loaded mag and racked my gun to load the chamber. Then, I looked into the witness hole to view the top of the casing before starting to holster. The instructor insisted that I pull the slide back "a hair" to visually inspect the round in the chamber. When I asked him if the witness hole was a good enough verification, he replied "oh, well you learn something new every day" :)
 
Seven High,

I vote get the Glock 26. Had one, foolishly traded it for a S&W .44 Magnum. Now wish I had another one. It is widely considered to have the durability and reliabilty of its larger siblings. My biggest beef is the width, which the M&P may have solved using metal mags, but when I do it again, I know which manufacturer will be getting my $$.
 
That hole is simply a loaded chamber indicator. You look through it and see the glint of the brass. It is not a substitute for basic safety rules, but is handy to tell at a glance (if it is not dark) that you remembered to load the chamber.

The part of the case exposed by the hole (the bevel at the front of the extractor groove) is the thickest part and is not the section subject to blowing out. (This would be at the bottom of the case, forward of the extractor groove, where it overhangs the barrel's feed ramp.) And you would not want any gas with accompanying particles to vent up out of there anyway.
 
I really like the look and feel of the M&P over the Glock. The Glock, however, has proven reliability where the M&P is a new platform whose reliability remains to be seen.

FWIW, I own two M&Ps and haven't had any problems yet. They haven't, however, seen a tremendous amount of use.

Don't care one way or the other about the "witness hole" or loaded chamber indicator or whatever you want to call it.
 
the 26 has a 2 piece extractor that protrudes when a round is chambered
you can not only see it, you can feel it:)
even in total darkness
also the 26 can accept the 30 round mags from the g17 and 19
 
Buy both! The G26 is ultra reliable and durable whereas the M&Pc's have several reported issues of magazines dropping out due to a faulty magazine release.

As for the size, the M&Pc is closer to a G19 whereas a G26/27 is a true sub-compact pistol.
 
the loaded chamber thing is really a non-issue on glock

because if the trigger is in the rear position (where it couldn't be pulled) theres no way a round could be in the chamber (with the exception that if some idiot assembled the gun with a round in the chamber)
if the trigger is forward, the guns cocked, and theres likely a round chambered
simple, and perfection:)
 
I want another G 26 to replace the one I stupidly traded off real bad.


The little beast shot great for a short sight radius right up there with it's "bigger" brothers @25yds.
 
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