Glock carbine!

[Hammer059]

Just thought I'd share my thoughts, maybe if more people agree there will be sufficient demand and this could become a possibility…

I think Glock should expand their market and produce pistol caliber carbines. Based on simply the brand alone, they would sell like hotcakes. If they were anywhere close to the reliability most folks (myself included) experience with their handguns, Glock could easily dominate that market. I know I'd love one if that were the case.

A Glock carbine rifle in 9mm/.40S&W/45acp that uses Glock magazines, is reliable, has a ~20" barrel, and a place to attach a light if desired. People could stock up on the same caliber for multiple firearms with different uses. What's not to like? Seems like a solid business move that would pay off in no time.

Yes, I know Hi-Point already makes carbines, but this isn't about Hi-Point or Glock vs Hi-Point, so please don't turn this into a "versus" thread (ugh). There are flaws in the Hi-Point carbine design and Glock could easily take over the pistol-caliber Carbine market just due to their name recognition alone. Heck, Glock has made handguns that I'm sure had less demand than their carbines would *cough 45gap cough*.

Anyway, I wish Glock would do this! Anybody else agree? If you were the CEO of Glock, would you consider it? I'm sure somebody, somewhere working for Glock has thought of this… the question is why haven't they done it yet…

Please feel free to share your thoughts

 

[Hammer059]

Wow. The thread below this is about pistol caliber bullpups. Not the same thing, but this wasn't meant to be a spin-off thread, sorry if it appears that way. I've been talking about this with my buddies for months...

 

[mljdeckard]

Of course. This way you have the inferior stopping power of pistol rounds combined with their likelihood to overpenetrate, and the inconvenience of a rifle.

I don't care at all what you use or buy, but it just seems to be all of the disadvantages of a rifle, with none of the advantages. If I really wanted a carbine that shoots a pistol cartridge I would probably just get an AR carbine that was set up for one. I have and use an M-1 carbine, but it's really not in the same power class as service pistol cartridges.

 

[jgiehl]

But you'd have a rifle with all the handiness of a small little carbine. And shoot some ammo that could still do some damage and not break the bank. Plus like he said, the Glock name and reliability.
Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
I'd buy one

 

[Hammer059]

Mljdeckard, valid point, except none of the pistol caliber rounds mentioned would be nearly as likely to overpenetrate as much as say a .223 or .308. I fully realize that their "stopping power" isn't as great, but it would have at least one advantage of a rifle: being much more easy to be accurate with. I'm sure 99% of folks would shoot better groups at 50 yards with the same sights on a 20" barrel as opposed to those sights on a 4" barrel. At anything over ~25-30 yards I'd take the pistol caliber carbine. Obviously if I had a different semi-automatic rifle I may prefer that instead, but for many people it would just be too convenient to have a handgun and rifle in the same caliber. It would definitely have some practical uses.

 

[C0untZer0]

I'm pretty sure a 9mm carbine loaded with 147gr Ranger "T" Series or Federal HST is going to be effective and not going to over-penetrate.

A miss with a 9mm carbine is likely to eat dirt a 100 yards out, most rifle calibers are going to keep going for 600 or 700 yards or more.

I like the idea of a 9mm carbine because I now have a stash of 9mm and if we have another ammo crisis, I won't have a firearm that I can't practice with because of ammo scarcity of that caliber.

Glock doesn't respond to consumer demand or pressure, if they did, we would have had a Glock single-stack .380 and 9mm ten years ago and Ruger wouldn't have made the gazillions they did selling the LCP, and the other gun manufacturers wouldn't have made the gazillons they did selling single-stack nines.

 

[Hammer059]

Well spoken, CountZer0

Also agreed, Glock is really behind the ball with responding to market demand. I'm sure the new single-stack 9mm will sell simply because of the name, but so many of the people that potentially would have bought it already have an LCP/LC9, which is cheaper, holds more rounds, and is more concealable. Don't get me wrong, I love full-size Glocks, but they really **** the bed with models 42 & 43, IMO. Sorry to get off topic, but I couldn't resist.

Heck, I wonder if Glock would hire a college intern in their marketing department? I'd love to toss them some ideas and get paid for it!

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Beretta already sells this as the CX series and now Taurus has one too.....although I agree Glock people would probably snap them up just for the magazine compatability feature with their pistols- if it could undercut the Beretta on $$ I might actually look at it seriously and I've never had the slightest interest in any of their other products.

 

[Captains1911]

This is no new idea, many people have been wishing for a Glock carbine for years, to the point that it's almost become a joke, just like the single stack 9mm.....but hey, we have the G43 now, so anything is possible.

 

[Rule3]

The AR platform can be had in handgun calibers. I have one in 9mm.

My 9mm Glock pistol is a carbine with a 30 round mag in it and of course the bayonet!

I am sure you are correct though, If it had the Glock name, they certainly would sell.

 

[ugaarguy]

Mljdeckard, valid point, except none of the pistol caliber rounds mentioned would be nearly as likely to overpenetrate as much as say a .223 or .308

Actually, high velocity polymer tip and non-bonded JSP rifle rounds, particularly those in .223/5.56, have been shown to have significantly less drywall penetration than JHP and FMJ in common pistol cartridges.

 

[Deog]

I have a cx4 storm in 9mm, great little carbine. I bought it because I can take it to the indoor range and shoot it, most indoor ranges don't allow AR's around these parts. 9mm is cheap to shoot, and that little carbine is fun and accurate. I as well own a G19 just as a range gun. I would like to see a Glock carbine to share mags with my G19 and G21.
But in this thread you will get the typical anti Glock BS that you get in any other thread that involves the word Glock.
I say build it, I would by one.

 

[bikerdoc]

I have several PPC's. As much as I dislike polymer weapons I would buy a Glock carbine. Unfortunately my Glock rep says the chances are slim to none.

 

[Hammer059]

Ugaarguy: You're comparing "polymer tip and non-bonded JSP rifle rounds" to any and all pistol rounds. I realize that you're correct about them not penetrating as much, but let's keep it apples to apples, at least. Of course a "polymer tip non-bonded JSP rifle round" isn't going to penetrate as much as a .40 s&w FMJ… that comes as no surprise to me.

Either way, this isn't about what penetrates more, it's more about whether or not a Glock carbine would be a smart business investment for them, which I think it obviously would. I don't expect everyone to wet their pants at the idea.

To others that have mentioned AR's in pistol calibers, I'm aware this is possible, but I'm not a fan of the AR platform and I know there are others out there who feel the same. Either way, I don't think those AR's in pistol calibers would cut into the demand for Glock carbines. I'm talking about it being a smart business decision for Glock, not whether or not every single person would like/buy it.

 

[Hammer059]

Bikerdoc: I share your dislike for polymer weapons, I like as much wood or metal as possible on my firearms. I'm just a traditionalist like that, however I'm also a sucker for practicality, which is what draws me to Glocks.

That is very disappointing that your Glock rep said there's little chance. Blasphemy! I guess we can only hope they're trying to surprise us (though I doubt it).

 

[drband]

I believe MechTech makes a carbine conversion unit for Glocks, 1911s, and SA XDs. Hickok45 just did a review on the Glock unit. He likes it--had a silly grin on his face after firing it.

 

[MachIVshooter]

If they were anywhere close to the reliability most folks (myself included) experience with their handguns, Glock could easily dominate that market.

It's a very small market to dominate, so I wouldn't hold your breath. The 9mm single stack sub-compact market has been booming for a decade, and Glock is just now getting on board.

You're comparing "polymer tip and non-bonded JSP rifle rounds" to any and all pistol rounds. I realize that you're correct about them not penetrating as much, but let's keep it apples to apples, at least. Of course a "polymer tip non-bonded JSP rifle round" isn't going to penetrate as much as a .40 s&w FMJ… that comes as no surprise to me.

M193 FMJ is also less likely to exit a residential structure than service pistol rounds, including JHP.

The tiny projectiles destabilize, lose velocity and fragment very quickly when they hit anything - including interior walls. The heavier and slower moving handgun bullets just plow on through.

This is not, however, to be construed to mean that all rifles are less likely to over-penetrate. 5.56 and similar high velocity, small caliber rounds are unique in this regard; a 150 gr. 7.62mm NATO FMJ round is absolutely going to penetrate more and further than a 9mm, .40 or .45 under almost any circumstance.

 

[USAF_Vet]

While there are already plenty of Pistol Caliber Carbines on the market that use Glock mags, a Glock branded carbine would still sell.

Kel-Tec SUB-2000, Glock mags
AR pcc conversions kits, Glock Mags
Mech-Tech PCC upper conversion, Glock pistol frame and mags
Various SBR stocks and add-ons, Glock pistols
Masterpiece Arms MPA30DMG pistol, Glock Mags

Magpul is now making Glock mags.

I definitely think there is a market for weapons other than traditional handguns that use Glock mags, and while the pistol caliber carbine isn't the "best" at anything, they are light, handy, fun and generally economical.

In the case of a Glock carbine, I don't think we'll ever see one MSRP for under $650, but I think they'll eventually bring one to market, and have it share a great many parts with the pistols of the same caliber.

 

[WestKentucky]

A couple big issues for converting a glock action to a carbine...primarily the action type. Locked breech modified browning design tilting barrel. On a 2-6 inch barrel that's not a big deal. On a 16" barrel you have a lot of motion on the end with a lot of mass in motion at high speed. Seems like a good way to stress internals with heavy friction and wear it out quickly, or if you lighten the barrel by making it thinner (can't go shorter due to NFA) you start whipping it around and bend it...not to mention the odd up/down recoil sensation would drive a lot of folks crazy.

So for Glock to come out with a carbine they would have to take a product that is selling like hotcakes, do a major design change, and pug it into a market where you have 600 dollar ARs, Beretta cx4, all of the bullpups, then hipoint, taurus, jrc, and s few more competing for marketshare on an already limited market.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see it happen, and just because it says glock on the side it would sell a few, but I don't see Glock pursuing what could be a huge financial setback to go after a small marketshare.

 

[Berserker]

I'd like to find a keltec 2000 since it uses the same magazines. I would buy a glock carbine is if magazines were interchangeable.

 

[Rule3]

Buy a Just Right Carbine. It uses Glock Mags.

 

[ugaarguy]

Ugaarguy: You're comparing "polymer tip and non-bonded JSP rifle rounds" to any and all pistol rounds. I realize that you're correct about them not penetrating as much, but let's keep it apples to apples, at least. Of course a "polymer tip non-bonded JSP rifle round" isn't going to penetrate as much as a .40 s&w FMJ… that comes as no surprise to me.

Note that I also wrote JHP in the pistol round comment, i.e. the most common SD/HD pistol rounds. Polymer tip and JSP rounds out of high velocity intermediate rifle rounds, i.e. the most common SD/HD rounds, have less penetration than pistol JHP rounds. We can also compare pistol FMJ and JHP to M193 ball (5.56 NATO 55gr FMJ) and the M193, which tumbles the majority of the time it encounters soft barriers like drywall, will have less post barrier penetration than pistol FMJ or JHP. Those are the apples to apples facts that have been tested, not the assumptions you're making.

As for the merits of lower flash and blast when pistol rounds are fired out of carbine length bbls, and the potential for a lighter carbine with similar recoil I agree. While I'm not personally concerned with ammo and mag compatibility, I understand that capability is a major positive for some considering a PCC.

 

[hso]

You were specific saying [QUOT]Except none of the pistol caliber rounds mentioned would be nearly as likely to overpenetrate as much as say a .223/QUOTE]


As noted that has been proven to be incorrect by members here, me being one of them, and other sites.

While an upper for glocks by Glock would be a great accessory, I don't know how well a new firearm would do.

 

[Speedo66]

A couple big issues for converting a glock action to a carbine...primarily the action type. Locked breech modified browning design tilting barrel. On a 2-6 inch barrel that's not a big deal. On a 16" barrel you have a lot of motion on the end with a lot of mass in motion at high speed. Seems like a good way to stress internals with heavy friction and wear it out quickly, or if you lighten the barrel by making it thinner (can't go shorter due to NFA) you start whipping it around and bend it...not to mention the odd up/down recoil sensation would drive a lot of folks crazy.

So for Glock to come out with a carbine they would have to take a product that is selling like hotcakes, do a major design change, and pug it into a market where you have 600 dollar ARs, Beretta cx4, all of the bullpups, then hipoint, taurus, jrc, and s few more competing for marketshare on an already limited market.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see it happen, and just because it says glock on the side it would sell a few, but I don't see Glock pursuing what could be a huge financial setback to go after a small marketshare.

+1

A carbine would probably have to have a completely different operating system, not just a question of lengthening the barrel and throwing a stock on.

I'm sure they could come up with something, but there's no guarantee it would be as simple and reliable as current Glocks are. It would not be the same Glock action that everyone is accustomed to.

 

[Tirod]

But you'd have a rifle with all the handiness of a small little carbine.

I read this a lot from pistol carbine fans, but no. Having a long barrel on a pistol doesn't magically transform the ballistics and make it perform like a rifle.

Having a short barrel on a rifle doesn't automatically reduce the ballistics of a rifle cartridge and make it perform at half it's ability.

The typical larger diameter pistol bullets have much lower Cd factors which cause them to lose energy more quickly, reducing speed, and causing a lot more bullet drop compared to a rifle cartridge. Compare the trajectories and remaining energy of a 9mm fired from a 16" barrel vs a 5.56 from a 10.5" barrel.

The 9mm won't even make it to 400m. The 5.56 will only need a few inches holdover. Pistol calibers in a long barrel do not constitute making it perform like a rifle, it only makes it conform to an archaic definition in an anti gun law - the '34 NFA.

And it it wasn't for another prohibition in that same law, we wouldn't have to pay a tax to have a rifle with a short barrel. But - you can have a pistol with a rifle cartridge, no hassles, and the ballistic performance at serious ranges is identical.

Compare the ballistics, pistol carbines are a niche product for good reasons. Glock won't touch it if ever, it took ten years to come out with a single stack 9mm. A rifle? Think about it historically - when Glock first hit the scene the average shooter had little regard for the huge difference in what they were.

A Glock rifle, regardless of how good, would have a legion of haters lined up against it.