Glock carbine!

[Sergei Mosin]

Glock carbines have been rumored for years. Supposedly the reason it hasn't happened is Gaston's opposition. My theory is that he won't even be cold before Glock announces a line of carbines.

 

[DeepSouth]

As much as I dislike Glocks if they ever do make a decent priced 45acp carbine I'd probably buy one, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[C0untZer0]

Beretta already sells this as the CX series and now Taurus has one too

You can't remove the fins from the Beretta. Taurus took what should have been a fairly simple and light weight gun and turned it into a boat anchor. Whatever they listed the weight of their CT9 at, it felt like it weighed 15 lbs empty. I think it felt heavier than it was, the same way the Tavor feels lighter than it is when up against the shoulder - its about weight distribution and the Taurus was heavy toward the muzzle. Why would a 9mm carbine have to weigh more than 7 lbs empty? I don't know why but Taurus found a reason and a way.

There is no way I would lug that thing around.

I'm still waiting for the right 9mm carbine to come along.

 

[HexHead]

Beretta already sells this as the CX series and now Taurus has one too.....although I agree Glock people would probably snap them up just for the magazine compatability feature with their pistols- if it could undercut the Beretta on $$ I might actually look at it seriously and I've never had the slightest interest in any of their other products.

If it were such a good idea for Glock, CX4 Storm carbines would be flying out the door at the gunships. Which simply isn't the case.

 

[Captains1911]

The Keltec Sub2000 is a great little gun for what it is, especially the Glock 17 version.

 

[GLOOB]

Just for the fact that they would take Glock mags and have the Glock name, I think they could make it happen.

Profitability is another matter. Carbines take more material and more cost. Making the machinery and tooling for a 16" mandrel forged barrel is mega bucks to invest. I don't think they could make anything close to the same markup as with their pistols. Add the extra workers and factories and markup and production lines, and it really seems like it's a losing proposition.

Beretta took the plunge, and one expensive carbine is already more than enough to satisfy the market. Hi Point and custom AR makers already cover the lions share. Maybe pistol carbines aren't the "collectors" item as are handguns and rifles. How many guys do you know that have more than 1 or 2 redundant pistol carbines?

 

[OilyPablo]

10mm. Naturally nuclear.

 

[COLOSHOOTR]

I don't think there is enough of a market for one and the development costs would be insane as they would be making something totally different than a handgun. Even if NFA was not an issue what would be the point? H&K already makes the best sub gun of all time and that's what we'd all be buying instead.

 

[GLOOB]

Yeah, HK MP5. The pistol caliber carbine is a lot more appealing when it can have a barrel shorter than 16". Glock can't make a profitable carbine without a military or police contract.

 

[CraigC]

I don't think there is enough of a market for one and the development costs would be insane as they would be making something totally different than a handgun.

Is that why CZ totally redesigned the Scorpion, HK developed the MP7, FN developed the P90 and SIG developed the MPX??? Seems there is a market, or a perceived one and some manufacturers are stepping up to provide a proper solution.

Problem with the Beretta is that it's restricted to pistol mags, has an ugly fixed stock and is not very compatible with barrels much shorter than 16".

Problem with AR's is that they're AR's.

Having a long barrel on a pistol doesn't magically transform the ballistics and make it perform like a rifle.

It's not about ballistics. It's about having a compact carbine in an adequate cartridge with the benefits of a shoulder fired weapon. People seem to forget what those benefits are and I suggest they take their service pistols to the 100yd range to figure them out.

The 9mm won't even make it to 400m.

Who cares???

 

[kanook]

The 9mm won't even make it to 400m.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/08/06/1000-yard-shot-9mm/

 

[ugaarguy]

Is that why CZ totally redesigned the Scorpion, HK developed the MP7, FN developed the P90 and SIG developed the MPX??? Seems there is a market, or a perceived one and some manufacturers are stepping up to provide a proper solution.

The Scorpion EVO was developed for the European market where machine pistols have always been more popular. The MP7 and P90 were developed as PDWs with rounds that are closer to rifle rounds than pistol rounds. The SIG MPX is a 516 with a shortened receiver and a short stroke piston. What you're also ignoring is that all four of those companies already make rifles, so they already have the base R&D to start from, and the base tooling to make other rifle variants.

Problem with the Beretta is that it's restricted to pistol mags, has an ugly fixed stock and is not very compatible with barrels much shorter than 16".

I think the major appeal to a Glock carbine for most people would be the ability to use their Glock mags in the rifle. Similarly, the CX4 is aimed at US consumers who want a carbine that uses their existing pistol mags. Barrels shorter than 16" would take it into NFA territory, and that's not the consumer group Beretta is after with the CX4. folding or telescopic stocks would be nice options, but the CX4 is legal almost everywhere in the US with the fixed stock. I think theoretical Glock carbine buyers would certainly demand more

Problem with AR's is that they're AR's.

Please elaborate on why this is a problem. The SIG MPX you seem to be so fond of could easily be classified as an AR-15 derivative.

It's about having a compact carbine in an adequate cartridge with the benefits of a shoulder fired weapon.

Absolutely correct.

The 9mm won't even make it to 400m.

Who cares???

I fully agree with that sentiment. That and your comment I quoted immediately above go hand in hand.

 

[CraigC]

Please elaborate on why this is a problem.

Because it's designed for a cartridge twice as long as most pistol cartridges. The straight blowback design of the pistol cartridge version is far from ideal.

The SIG MPX you seem to be so fond of could easily be classified as an AR-15 derivative.

It is but it also has no buffer tube, is gas operated and is compatible with folding stocks.

The MP7 and P90 were developed as PDWs with rounds that are closer to rifle rounds than pistol rounds.

Yes but they are short enough to fit into the magazine of a service pistol. Big difference between the 5.7 and the 5.56.

 

[USAF_Vet]

Is that why CZ totally redesigned the Scorpion, HK developed the MP7, FN developed the P90 and SIG developed the MPX???

These were developed with Police and Military contracts in mind. They are all select fire, just like the MP5 and every other sub machine gun that came before.

They were not designed or marketed with a limited civilian market in mind. That they are ALL title II NFA weapons in their original design format should say something.

The fact that some were modified with 16" barrels and semi auto only controls for sale to the civilian US market is just the manufacturers throwing us a bone in hopes to make a bit more money.

Don't get me wrong, I like PCCs, despite not currently owning any.

But, a Title I PCC is far less effective than a Title II pistol caliber machine gun. Single shot ballistics data compared to a burst of those same pistol rounds is night and day on the human body. Again, not saying pistol rounds from a rifle aren't effective, and have zero advantages over other long guns.

I'm not an operator. I can count all the unmounted patrols I took part in on a single hand, and not even use all the fingers. But during all the time I sent in Iraq, with either an M16A2, or an M4 and/ or M9, I never wanted to give up the rifle if I had it, and felt I didn't have enough gun with just the M9.

I flew out some special ops guys and some contractor types, and a lot of them had sub guns, but they were all select fire. In fact, aside from side arms and the rare bolt action DM rifles I saw, every gun in theater was select fire.

Pistol Caliber long guns are enjoyable, no doubt there. They can even be viable home defense guns, no doubt there either. They can be less expensive to purchase and feed, but with rifle caliber long guns ranging from $300 on the low end, the price gap is pretty nonexistent. Same with ammo. It's certainly cheap to feed a PCC steel cased FMJ, but about just as cheap to feed an SKS steel cased FMJ.

So, for home defense or any other situation, at this point (TO ME) the PCC serves no advantages.

For $300, I'll take an SKS loaded with steel cased 7.62x39 FMJ over a Hi Point loaded with the same in 9mm.

YMMV.

If ever a high capacity PCC hits the market for less than the Hi Point, and has equal or greater quality, I'll be a beta tester for it. But as long as higher powered center fire semi auto carbines are available, I just don't have a need for a pistol caliber carbine or rifle.

(Except for the Sterling I'm frankensteining together in the shop)

 

[captain awesome]

I will mention what a couple others have, there is a company called Mechtech systems, and for those who think there is no market for the OPs idea, that company is doing quite well. when I Ordered my 1911 upper unit there was a 2 month waiting list to even get the order in. let me say, that little CCU is loads of fun, accurate as can be and flawlessly reliable. mine is in 460 Rowland and it smacks steel with authority. they are simple to use, and simple to assemble, and very well made. I highly recommend one to any one who sees the value in a PCC.

 

[USAF_Vet]

I'm still waiting for Mech Tech to release a CCU for the S&W M&P. I saw they have one for the XD, not sure how new it is.

 

[jhb]

10mm version, id be all over it.


Heck id even be all over a keltec sub2000 at msrp if i could find one.