Glock "worse case scenario mods".

[possum]

And Type 3s are a pain. Generally caused by weak/broken extractors, and sometimes, broken ejectors.

and commonly bad magazines can cause this as well and a variation of the type 3.

Very well done.

Thank you

 

[Fluxeii]

I think the mods you've performed to your gun are certainly worthy of field testing, please let us know how they work out and if you would do it again. With that said, can you stop dropping little hints about being an ultra cool operator but not an operator who has lots of sway over glocks business practices? You aren't in a Tier-1 unit, no one who is would talk about it or drop hints about it on the internet. If someone asks you if you were concerned over voiding your warranty, why not just answer with "I'm not concerned about it"?

 

[possum]

please let us know how they work out and if you would do it again. With that said, can you stop dropping little hints about being an ultra cool operator but not an operator who has lots of sway over glocks business practices? You aren't in a Tier-1 unit, no one who is would talk about it or drop hints about it on the internet. If someone asks you if you were concerned over voiding your warranty, why not just answer with "I'm not concerned about it"?

1st) yes it works and I would do it again.
2nd) Pictures of the mods in use as requested to come.

3rd) First off, obviously you are new here, and should maybe read more than you post. I think it is funny that you are the only person that has brought this up, as if it were really an issue you would have many people posting similar. I don't know how much are reading into what I have posted, and what you think you have read, and what you think I am saying, however I think you are way off. I have been on this forum for a long time, and the "old timers" have followed me through my career in the Military and life in general. Many of them have done business with me and my holster company and many sent me care packages while I was in Iraq. I will tell you everything that I did, everywhere I was deployed, and I will send you a copy of my dd214 if you so like to see it. I am an honest person that is all there is too it, I have nothing to hide, and I have nothing to lie about. I know what I did in the Military and I know what I do in the civilian sector as far as the shooting/ training community is concerned. I am not, was not, and will never be an operator, as I have not attended the OTC. I was an infantryman for 8 years, and in that time spent 38 months in Iraq over 3 deployments. On the civilian training side, I have trained quite a bit, and continue to do so. I also own a holster company so I do custom work for multiple people in the training/ EP/ shooting industry and Govt Agencies etc. I have met and continue to meet new people all the time. Like I said it is a small world and if you get out there and do some training, attend courses, do some business with people in the industry, before you know it you will know a whole mess load of people, from all over. It is called a network.

When I said I am not average, I mean as the gun community is concerned. They say that 5% of gun owners attend professional training 5% is not average. How many of those do you think take more than a CCW course, or an NRA course? Not many at all. so lets say that leaves 3% even, that is not average. How many of that 3% attend training multiple times a year, and shoots 20-30rds a year? 2% maybe? Again that is not average. Not trying to brag or boost I am just trying to impart on you reality, and to show you that your thinking that I am trying to say that I am a operator is wrong.



Thank you that is all.

 

[dogtown tom]

If you fear difficulty in removing the magazine.....

Why go to the time and trouble of modifying your grip frame when you could have removed your aftermarket buttplug? I believe that is the purpose of that hollow space....to allow you to more easily grasp your magazine.

That or just use G17 mags.

 

[possum]

So, how DO you grip that sidearm to strip the magazine for your class three, between the knees? Seriously, can you show a pic or two, I'd like to know, might come in handy next time I do a high risk transport. The stippling specifically on only one side piques the curiosity, if you don't mind.

There are several schools that teach the between the knees method. Between the knees is normally not a good option because now you have lost your mobility, or if you do move with the gun between your knees you are going to loose the gun, as most people do not run with their knees pinched together. There are some situations that you might would be ok in using that technique, IE, there is time /distance and or cover to allow you to do so.

If I have to take off and run/ move or am in the process of running/ moving in a fight and need to fix the issue, I need a technique that allows me to do it on the move. If it is a strong hand manipulation the gun is going back into the holster, if it is a weak hand, it is going in the waistband. If I am trying to clear a type 3 with my reaction hand only I am not gonna stand around, I am gonna be doing the Nike retreat and getting the heck out of there. If I can fix it I will do so on the move.

 

[possum]

Why go to the time and trouble of modifying your grip frame when you could have removed your aftermarket buttplug? I believe that is the purpose of that hollow space....to allow you to more easily grasp your magazine.

That or just use G17 mags.

I do not use a butt plug that one is on there for the duration of the time that i was doing mods so that plastic bits and pieces would not get into the cavity anymore than they needed too.

Read the above posts before you post the same thing that has been discussed and answered already. I am not going to ccw a 17 mag in a 19, my spare reload is a 17 mag.

Maybe you are unfamiliar with removing a mag when there is a type 3 with one hand. that butt plug not being in there is not going to help you.

 

[rscalzo]

The worst case scenario is when the slide falls off. Two years ago (fortunately during a competitive event and not on the street) during a Steel Match the handgun was drawn from the holster to load. At that point, the slide fell to the ground.

One of the weak points in the Slide Lock and spring. For a few dollars the spring can be replaced at decent intervals in seconds. Another good addition is the slightly larger Lone Wold Slide Lock. Very cheap insurance.

We happened to have a photographer snapping high speed digital photos and one actually showed the handgun in use with no Slide Lock in place. No idea it it was the last shot but it was clear as day.

 

[possum]

The worst case scenario is when the slide falls off. Two years ago (fortunately during a competitive event and not on the street) during a Steel Match the handgun was drawn from the holster to load. At that point, the slide fell to the ground.

One of the weak points in the Slide Lock and spring. For a few dollars the spring can be replaced at decent intervals in seconds. Another good addition is the slightly larger Lone Wold Slide Lock. Very cheap insurance.

We happened to have a photographer snapping high speed digital photos and one actually showed the handgun in use with no Slide Lock in place. No idea it it was the last shot but it was clear as day.

Since everyone is coming up with their own version of "worse case scenario" I guess the real worst would be to be in a fight without a gun at all. Even with a gun with a slide that fell off, you still have a mean striking device.

 

[Jim K]

Hmmm. My Model 19 doesn't have that problem. Do those Glocks jam before or after they blow up?

Jim

 

[ForumSurfer]

Hmmm. My Model 19 doesn't have that problem. Do those Glocks jam before or after they blow up?

Stuff happens. Parts wear out. Parts break. Even quality made ammo can get a bad apple in the bunch resulting in ammo related malfunctions. No handgun is immune from it. It helps to train and be ready because if you get a malfunction, you need to be able to clear it without hesitation.

At that point, the slide fell to the ground.

Except for that situation, you better be ready force some force on force if that one happens.

 

[possum]

Visual aid to the use of the modifications.

By request I have taken these pics, and will do my best to show and explain the how and why behind these modifications.

Lets break this down one mod at a time.
Stippling
My main goal with stippling was to do so where I needed it, as well as keeping in mind that there needs to be some level of comfort for everyday carry. I carry my gun more than I draw and I shoot it, and though there is some level of comfort that I will forgo to have an advantage, rubbing my side raw from some stippling in an area that I don't need it at is just not smart in my book. As you can see from the pic below it is only on the side in which my support hand contacts the frame, and stops on that angle which is the angle of the body shield on my MMA holster ( This is a holster design that I make and sell). I do not need stippling anywhere else on the gun. Having in the area on the left as I have it, allows for better grip and purchase by the support hand. Obviously this has nothing to do with the "worst case scenario" however is something that i like on a gun.

here you can see the stippling on the side.


here you can see where my hand is when I have a 2 handed grip on the gun.


Under the trigger guard helps to really "lock in" your support hand into that good thumbs forward grip. If i could only stipple one area on a gun this is where it would be. from the pic you can see how it looks on the bottom side when I have the 2 handed grip.


Grip Tape
This is 3m outdoor step tape that can be found at wal mart by the roll. I have been using step tape for years on my guns, and have ran it on guns through many training courses over the years. It comes on a huge roll, and the one roll will probably last you a life time.

There is grip tape on the front of the slide for one main reason, but there are a couple benefits. The biggest one for me is the ability to conduct a press check easily and securely. Pic shows a press check.


The grip tape on the rear of the slide is to aid in the overhand racking of the slide when you have the use of 2 hands. when you have the use of only one hand it aids in the racking of the slide for one handed reloads, malfunction clearances etc. you can actually run the slide without using the sights at all which is the norm.( this is great for people that have novak type sights, which are sloped.) It is best if you have some rear sight with a 90 degree face to it, to allow you to rack the slide off of gear if the need arises (the need being one handed manipulations). There are no pics to show the overhand technique as I am sure everyone knows what that is, so I will not bore you with that.

Magwell treatment

This is what a type 3 looks like (aka a double feed) whatever we are calling it this month.


The technique that has been around forever and taught forever is to "lock/rip/rackx3/ replace/ rack. you don't have to lock the slide to the rear. There are a couple ways to clear a double feed without locking the slide to the rear, there is the inertia technique, which I will not get into here unless someone wants me to do so. If so just ask. Then there is ripping the mag out by using something (pocket, holster, mag pouch etc). With a factory glock this is not easily if at done. On the m&P's this is easy to do with a stock gun.

Ripping the Magazine out

With the use of 2 hands you simply depress the mag release and rip the mag out using obviously your hands. I did not take a pic of this as I am sure all of you know what I mean.

With a single hand only you are going to have to depress the mag release, catch the base plate on something on your body/ in your environment etc to rip it out.

The way that I do it.
With my dominate hand (right), I use my right hand thumb to depress the mag release button, and use my holster to rip the mag out.

here it is being done right hand only off the holster.


here it is being done with the right hand only off of a pocket.

With my left hand, I depress the mag release with my left trigger finger while using my mag pouch or belt.

Here it is being done off a mag pouch with the left hand only


Here it is being done off the belt left hand only


Once the mag is out


You would simply rack the slide until the gun is cleared, stow the gun either in the holster, or in the belt line(depending on the way you do it, and what hand you are using in the fight).

here is a left hand only rack


here is a right hand only rack




I hope this helps shed a little light, if anyone has any questions please ask. If you think this is crazy you should see one handed type clearance when using a carbine.

 

[possum]

Hmmm. My Model 19 doesn't have that problem. Do those Glocks jam before or after they blow up?

If the "model 19" you refer to is a S&W model 19 wheel gun, you have a good one there. That is the gun that I was raised on. I am hoping that I can have one for myself one day.

The world of wheel guns is a little different as far as malfunctions are concerned.

 

[Sam1911]

Possum, thanks very much for taking the time to do all this demonstration work. I am sure many here appreciate the visuals and detailed descriptions.

 

[possum]

Sam1911,

No problem sir, my pleasure.

 

[john wall]

[/IMG]

My "highly modified" Glocks used for demonstrating stoppage reductions, one and two handed.

Yours is a way, but there are several. Training, regardless of method, is the cardinal rule. "Failure to Train is Training to Fail".

At a recent Law Enforcement Instructor training class, I was the only person among 12 Instructors able to perform a one handed failure-to-extract reduction drill. I use a method picked up from Dennis Tueller at a LETC in LA a couple of years ago.

I do not use live arms in classrooms, mostly because some fat pompous local "trainer" has had TWO negligent discharges in a classroom environment. The first cost him a lot of business, the second cost him his left pinky finger.

I know, he should not be training, but since he was a cop a long time ago, TPTB are turning a blind eye, until he shoots a student.:banghead:

 

[possum]

John Wall,
Thank you for your post, and input. I don't really understand the angle that you are coming from and what if anything you are trying to infer. I do not have a red gun, though I do have blue guns which I use a lot to demo certain things. Even if I had a red gun, I would have had to do the same mods to that gun as well to allow me to be able to demo the stuff for this post in the context in which it was asked of me to clarify.

If there is any question to the safety involved in doing these demos above. I assure everyone reading that this was done totally safe, i checked, my wife the photographer checked that the gun was clear, and that the mag had 2 dummy rounds and no more ammo of any type in the magazine, and that there was no live ammo on my person or in the same room. Additionally I was always adhering to the firearm safety rules throughout the demo and picture taking process. This is no different than when I conduct dry fire.

In short this is the gun that I carry, it is the gun I shoot and train with and the gun that i do dry fire with.

 

[armoredman]

I was able to see the dummy rounds, and feel safe in assuming those were used in the rest of the photos, same type we use, but ours are beaten far worse.
Very interesting technique, not one I had considered. Thank you for the visuals.

 

[possum]

but ours are beaten far worse.
Very interesting technique, not one I had considered. Thank you for the visuals.

yeah you have to cycle them out every once in a while. This is a brand new bag that I bought for an upcoming course.

 

[Fluxeii]

1st) yes it works and I would do it again.
2nd) Pictures of the mods in use as requested to come.

3rd) First off, obviously you are new here, and should maybe read more than you post. I think it is funny that you are the only person that has brought this up, as if it were really an issue you would have many people posting similar. I don't know how much are reading into what I have posted, and what you think you have read, and what you think I am saying, however I think you are way off. I have been on this forum for a long time, and the "old timers" have followed me through my career in the Military and life in general. Many of them have done business with me and my holster company and many sent me care packages while I was in Iraq. I will tell you everything that I did, everywhere I was deployed, and I will send you a copy of my dd214 if you so like to see it. I am an honest person that is all there is too it, I have nothing to hide, and I have nothing to lie about. I know what I did in the Military and I know what I do in the civilian sector as far as the shooting/ training community is concerned. I am not, was not, and will never be an operator, as I have not attended the OTC. I was an infantryman for 8 years, and in that time spent 38 months in Iraq over 3 deployments. On the civilian training side, I have trained quite a bit, and continue to do so. I also own a holster company so I do custom work for multiple people in the training/ EP/ shooting industry and Govt Agencies etc. I have met and continue to meet new people all the time. Like I said it is a small world and if you get out there and do some training, attend courses, do some business with people in the industry, before you know it you will know a whole mess load of people, from all over. It is called a network.

When I said I am not average, I mean as the gun community is concerned. They say that 5% of gun owners attend professional training 5% is not average. How many of those do you think take more than a CCW course, or an NRA course? Not many at all. so lets say that leaves 3% even, that is not average. How many of that 3% attend training multiple times a year, and shoots 20-30rds a year? 2% maybe? Again that is not average. Not trying to brag or boost I am just trying to impart on you reality, and to show you that your thinking that I am trying to say that I am a operator is wrong.

Thank you that is all.

Obviously yes I'm relatively new here, with that being said I can assure you that since I've only posted a hand full of times, I've read much more than I post. I'm sorry if you were offended by what I said, and I stand by my statement that your previous posts had an aura of being a special someone. That's how I read it before and how I still do. With that being said we all know how internet conversations lack inflection and tone, so perhaps I'm missing something since we aren't face-to-face.

I can't thank you enough for what you've done for our country. I have great appreciation for those that have served. It takes a very brave man to write that check to the US Govt with the amount being up to and including ones life. Thank you.

 

[Sam1911]

[Just as an aside regarding the question of claims and credentials: THR has, and continues to, attract a noticeable percentage of folks who have been places and done things, and know people, and ARE people worth knowing. The shooting industry, the training community, and the rarefied assortment of personalities who's names are known for deeds of interest and positions of influence are probably more interconnected than many realize.

If you have questions about a member's implied experience or credentials, it may be a good idea to ask a Staff member for a read on that individual rather than calling them out on the public forum and then having to apologize awkwardly for your statements and tone.]

 

[possum]

Obviously yes I'm relatively new here, with that being said I can assure you that since I've only posted a hand full of times, I've read much more than I post. I'm sorry if you were offended by what I said, and I stand by my statement that your previous posts had an aura of being a special someone. That's how I read it before and how I still do. With that being said we all know how internet conversations lack inflection and tone, so perhaps I'm missing something since we aren't face-to-face.

I can't thank you enough for what you've done for our country. I have great appreciation for those that have served. It takes a very brave man to write that check to the US Govt with the amount being up to and including ones life. Thank you.

I am often guilty of not being very effective at written communication and getting my point across with written words. Iam sure that if our conversation was verbal say face to face or over the phone it would have been much different, and my words/ intent would not have been confused the way that they were. I am sorry that I did not articulate what I was trying to say as good as I should have.

as far as serving, no problem, thanks for the support.

 

[Six]

I would have had to do the same mods to that gun as well to allow me to be able to demo the stuff for this post in the context in which it was asked of me to clarify.

Not really, for my Glock I bought a yellow plastic training barrel for practicing manipulating the gun. Great cheap investment that makes it obvious that the gun is safe.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=527808

Edit to clarify:
It doesn't have a chamber, so you can't show a failure to extract or cycle rounds through it - but if you're doing things like switching hands, racking on the leg etc or just demonstrating the sights and controls to a newbie it's very useful.

 

[possum]

Not really, for my Glock I bought a yellow plastic training barrel for practicing manipulating the gun. Great cheap investment that makes it obvious that the gun is safe.

The above poster stated something about and posted a pic about having a "red gun" to do do demos with. If I had a red gun, had done the mods to my real 19, then I would have had to do the same modes to the red gun to be able to be "safe" and demo the drills with said red gun.

Having the yellow training barrel would be pointless in the context of this post. If I can not cycle rounds with it being installed, how I could I possibly demo via pictures how to do the techniques above?

can we keep the post on topic to aid those that might be interested in the mods, and the how and why behind them? May we please not have a thread dedicated to every piece of "safety' equipment that is on the market? This is not what this post is/ was or will be about.

Additionally it would be a great help to everyone involved if those that comment on this post first fully read the above posts.

 

[Jim K]

I love the scenarios where a half dozen improbable things have to happen so that someone can explain to the great unwashed how he, being superior in every respect, would deal with them.

Jim

 

[possum]

I love the scenarios where a half dozen improbable things have to happen so that someone can explain to the great unwashed how he, being superior in every respect, would deal with them.

Getting into a fight in the first place is "improbable". Does this mean that we just ignore it and not prepare for something that is plausible? Are you not a member of a gun forum? Do you not own guns and carry because you feel that it is necessary for the protection of yourself and others?

I love the fact that there are people on this forum and gun owners in general who think that they are so inclined to possibly get into a fight that they find it necessary to defend themselves by buying a gun, and carrying it, and stopping there. All while totally turning a blind eye to the possibilities of what may happen in the fight for their life. In a fight for your life you will never wish that you had less ammo or less training.

I am not and do not claim to be superior in anyway. I have a "way" to do it, that doesn't mean that it is "the way". I am simply trying to educate people through lessons learned from the real world and things I have been exposed to in the training industry. I have paid a lot of money and time to learn skills that I and apparently a very small amount of people believe is relevant. I am willing to and do share that with all that will listen because I believe that they are things that can possibly be life saving to you, and your loved ones. If you do not like the way that I do things don't do it, dismiss it, and that is fine. However people detracting from the thread, and the topic at hand is not something that is needed here or anywhere else. If I attend a course, and they (the school) presents some technique that I disagree with; I do it for the duration of the training (it is called having an open mind) and if I do not wish to keep it, I don't. If it is something that I think I would like to use and adopt then I screen it against many factors, and may or may not keep it. Additionally I may keep it but not in the exact context in which it was taught at the course.

I am sorry if anyone thinks that i am trying to be high and mighty, or trying to act like I am "highspeed" because I train for the worst case scenario. Shooting and training is not something I simply do, it is something that I am very passionate about in every regard. i look at each person that legally owns and carries as a brother or sister in arms, and I care about their welfare, and I care that they survive a fight. This is one of the only reasons that I continue to spend any amount of time on this forum, I would have been gone long ago because of people who are set in their ways and don't have an open mind at all. However I think that I may have the chance to help 1 person, and if I do that, it is worth all the headache that is brought by the various people that make up the largest majority of this forum and the gun owning community.

Please forgive me for wanting to be the best that I can be, and for wanting to be an asset and not a liability to society.