Glocks with lead bullets?

[PaisteMage]

I recently shot a ported 19C that my friend owns. I shot it better than any 9mm I have ever shot.

I used to think I didn't like glocks. I used to think that it was all hype. I learned to shoot better, practiced fundamentals with my revolvers, and my SR22, and tried to shoot a glock again.

One inch groups from 20 yards.

So this has got me thinking of buying a 19, seeing as how the 19c isn't available anymore. Unless I can find a good used one.

So the question:

Are glocks in general, or the 19 particularly, finicky when it comes to lead bullets? My friend has a casting business and I get lead bullets for cheap.

Thanks for positive comments.

 

[HOOfan_1]

Any gun with polygonal rifling supposedly will lead faster than normal rifling. That includes all factory Glock barrels, H&K barrels and I think some CZ handguns.

 

[zxcvbob]

There is no consensus about Glocks and lead bullets. The factory says not to use them... but it probably also says not to use reloaded ammo.

You'll have to try it -- carefully -- to find out. Or buy an aftermarket barrel.

 

[CountryUgly]

First off some will tell you not to shoot lead in a Glock because of their polygonal rifling. In fact Glock even urges against the practice in the user manual (which it and every other gun manufacturer also states not to use reloads in their firearms). However if you use a hardcast bullet such as a Falcon Bullet Company cast bullet and clean your barrel every 250-500 rounds leading isn't an issue. Shooting a few FMJ's after a day of shooting cast also helps keep leading in check. There is a product called Pb Blocker you can coat your barrel with that pretty much prevents leading all together. I own Several Glocks and shoot thousands of rounds of cast out of them a year without an issue simply because I clean my barrel when it needs it (all i use is Hoppes#9 and a nylon brush to remove any lead). Hope this helps.

 

[2wheels]

As others have noted, the polygonal barrel leading quicker than normally rifled barrels causes concern when shooting lead out of Glocks.

Some people go ahead and shoot lead in their stock Glock barrels, and generally they'll monitor the barrel for leading or won't shoot a whole lot before cleaning.

Others go ahead and buy aftermarket barrels with normal rifling.

Either way, you can shoot lead out of your Glock. Just decide which route you're gonna take.

 

[BSA1]

Shooting a few FMJ's after a day of shooting cast also helps keep leading in check.

Sorry but this is exactly the wrong thing to do. We (Department Armorer, a Officer and myself) carefully researched use of lead bullets. What we discovered was the polygonal barrels didn’t lead any worse than rifled barrels and in fact were easier to clean. We discussed this with Glock and their concern is Officers will not clean the lead out of the barrel before shooting jacketed rounds creating excessive pressures which could damage the gun. (Imagine that? Officers too lazy to clean their guns).

 

[LiveLife]

It's my opinion that Glock barrels have longer leade/very smooth start of rifling that allow the lead bullet to slide deeper into the start of rifling and allow more high pressure gas to leak around the bullet before chamber pressure builds to deform/expand the bullet base to seal the bullet with the barrel. This will result in more fouling build up along the rifling and decrease the groove-to-groove/bore size of the barrel. I usually inspect factory Glock barrels after 200-300 round when shooting lead loads and clean as necessary. Shooting lead bullets in Glock barrels was discussed in this thread - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8464678#post8464678

Picture below shows smooth rounded rifling and start of rifling with longer leade.

This is Glock 17 barrel with only 100 rounds of 125 gr lead loads shot through. While chamber end is starting to show loose flaky deposit, the muzzle end is definitely showing hard crusty deposit along the rifling.

Here's Sig 1911 barrel on the left with very quick start of rifling (almost no leade) and Glock barrel on the right with longer leade and very smooth start of rifling.

 

[RX-79G]

Glock's rifling profile is atypical of polygonal types, and has caused problems many times over the years, which Glock acknowledges.

HKs, Baby Eagles and several other pistols have been selling polygonal barreled guns for as long or longer than Glock, and do not object to the use of lead bullets.


I wouldn't in a Glock. Get some copper washed if you want to be cheap.

 

[5-SHOTS]

I discuss it with a competitive shooter which is also a Glock nut. He said he shoots lead bullets since he had a Glock in his hands and never a problem. I think it isn't 100% true. What I've experienced observing some Glocks is:
1) a loss of accuracy with .355 soft lead bullets;
2) the barrel collect lead very fast and badly with those bullets even if it's easy to clean (but expect lead chippings jumping everywhere).
As said some posts before, I'd use hard cast bullets to avoid premature barrel leading and/or a .357 bullet diameter instead of .355 (in that case take a look at the pressure)

 

[the.batman]

If you haven't already got the message- DONT FIRE CAST LEAD BULLETS IN A GLOCK! I have a buddy who blew his gun up doing that after a very short amount of cast bullets were put through the gun.

 

[45_auto]

I've only been firing cast lead through my Glocks (stock barrels, well over 100,000 documented rounds plus probably 3 or 4 times that many that I don't have receipts for) for a little over 25 years.

Are they all going to blow up tomorrow?

Just loaded up about 1000 180gr LFP over 8.8gr of Longshot for my Glock 20 yesterday. I've only been using that load for 10 years or so, it runs about 1250 FPS. Should I go pull them all apart?

 

[LiveLife]

Even in barrels with conventional square cut land/groove rifling, different lead bullets (alloy mix/hardness/sizing) with different powders and charges will lead or not lead in varying degrees. In my M&P40/45, Sig 1911 and KKM/Lone Wolf Glock barrels, I have tested loads that leaded the barrels and now have loads that won't lead the barrels even after several hundred rounds.

I think same applies to Glock barrels and lead loads. Depending on the bullet and powder/charge, you may experience different levels of fouling and/or leading build up.

The Missouri Bullet Company 9mm 125 gr lead RN bullet and W231/HP-38 load I tested in Glock 17 barrel did not lead the barrel rather just fouling build up that cleaned up easily with Hoppes #9 solvent and copper bore brush (see pictures in post #7).

The reason why I suggest inspecting Glock barrels after 200-300 rounds is not just to clean the barrel of any fouling/leading build up. For my MBC test load in Glock 17, accuracy was maintained up to the 200-300 round count but beyond it, the shot group size started to open up.

So, if you want to shoot lead loads in Glock barrels, test different bullets/powders that won't lead the barrel and take a mini cleaning kit to the range with you. Then after 200-300 rounds, inspect/clean the barrel as necessary while watching for accuracy trends. Depending on the bullet/powder/charge used, you may need to clean more often or less often.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Shooting a few FMJ's after a day of shooting cast also helps keep leading in check.

People PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop spreading this falsehood. FMJs following cast bullets do nothing good. If anything it irons the lead into the barrel making it even harder to clean. It doesn't size down like lead will in the barrel so it could spike pressure if the barrel heavily leaded.

And for personal experience, we've put a couple thousand cast lead bullets through a G22 with no ill effects or loss of accuracy.

 

[Nom de Forum]

Why not remove all doubt by removing the O.E. barrel and replace it with a conventionally rifled A.M. barrel? I have shot cast .400 180s (not particularly hard cast) in the O.E. barrel and noticed loss of accuracy and leading. The price of an A.M. barrel is cheap for gaining peace of mind.

 

[Nom de Forum]

People PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop spreading this falsehood. FMJs following cast bullets do nothing good. If anything it irons the lead into the barrel making it even harder to clean. It doesn't size down like lead will in the barrel so it could spike pressure if the barrel heavily leaded.

And for personal experience, we've put a couple thousand cast lead bullets through a G22 with no ill effects or loss of accuracy.

This one has been around of decades. The only thing that removes all the lead from barrels is appropriate cleaning technic. Same with copper fouling, black powder fouling, and corrosive primer fouling. I am, however, always hoping someone will invent a magic cleaning bullet because I have hated cleaning guns since being forced to used hot water and pine oil to clean M16s in Basic.

 

[the.batman]

A review of "The Glock in Competition," Dillon's Blue Press.

"As far as I’m concerned, the chapter on Glock blowups alone is worth the price of the book. Blowups, also known as Kabooms, KB malfunctions, etc., are analyzed in a methodical, easy-to-comprehend way. The short answer is: Don’t double charge, beware of out-of-battery firing and the resultant need to use correctly dimensioned ammunition, and NEVER NEVER EVER use lead bullets in a factory Glock barrel. Mark Passamanck goes to great detail into the design of Glock polygonal rifling. A design meant to optimize accuracy with jacketed bullets; the polygonal rifling swages the bullet into essentially an octagon shape. Copper withstands this swaging quite well, so that even jacketed bullets with inconsistencies perform very well. However, lead tends to tear away and is left as deposits in the barrel; therefore, firing as few as five rounds of lead ammunition will cause significant pressure increases in polygonal rifled barrels. Mark describes a Glock 19 barrel that KB’d after firing approximately 1500 rounds of commercial lead ammo. Because of excessive lead residue, the bore diameter at the front of the chamber was .323,” causing pressures of more than 60,000 PSI. The end result was a cracked frame and a split barrel."

Our agency was specifically told that the use of cast lead bullets voided Glock's warranty if a gun failed during use of cast lead bullets. YMMV

 

[GLOOB]

I've heard of people using a cordless drill to clean lead fouling out of their guns in between stages of competition!

Personally, I have experienced bad copper and lead fouling in a G21 while shooting factory TMJ ammunition right off the shelf at the Wmart.

Then, again, I have shot over a thousand MBC XD4 through same gun with zero fouling and laser accuracy.

I have also experienced bad leading and poor accuracy while shooting MBC Small Balls in a G19.

I have also used the "jacketed" ammo trick, and it worked incredibly well in my particular case, with my particular gun, shooting my particular ammo, and using my particular regimen - which was to load a plated Berry's bullet at the bottom of each mag, and one more in the middle of every mag. I went through the last thousand rounds of Small Ball without needing a single cleaning, and there wasn't a spot in the barrel by the end. This didn't fix the poor accuracy, though.

I have also cast my own 9mm bullets of softer alloy than MBC, and I've seen what really, really bad lead fouling looks like that nothing could help. I can see how someone could blow up a gun shooting a full mag of these - or even just one, followed by a jacketed pill. Fortunately, I don't take such things for granted, and I checked after the first shot.

Finally, I have learned to fully expand my 9mm cases to accept those same bullets without swaging them down, and I'm back to spotless barrels, but without the jacketed bullet trick and with excellent accuracy. I used to hoard copper Chore Boys, and now I couldn't even produce one if I wanted.

So lead bullets in Glock? Yes and no. If you go into it knowing that you have to initially examine the gun after every shot, and that it might have to sit on the sidelines for an entire range trip after firing only one shot, and you have the patience and faith that you'll sort it all out in the end, then yes. And in case you didn't notice, I never once slugged a bore or sized a bullet, but everyone will follow their own path. Just be safe.

 

[SDGlock23]

I had a 19 not too long back and I shot a good dose of Missouri 147gr subsonics through it with essentially no leading whatsoever. Same with some Glock .45's and .40's too, but you have to keep your eye on it because some bullets won't seal up the barrel quite right and you will get leading. Lead in Glocks certainly can work very well, or can be a mess, just depends on the bullet, mainly how it's sized.

An aftermarket barrel isn't a necessity, but I do find traditional rifling easier to clean the leading out of compared to a polygonal rifled barrel like a Glock uses, which is why if I plan on shooting lots of lead, I'll fork over the dough for a good KKM barrel.

 

[rcmodel]

The problems was never with leading if you used the proper hardness of alloy to keep them from stripping in the rifling.

The problem has always been, people believe you don't need to clean Glocks.

So they shoot them with lead bullets until the chamber headspace shoulder is packed full of lead shavings, bullet lube & powder fouling hard as the chamber.

And then they could fire out of battery.
My early one will fire out of battery as much as 3/32" inch, by design.

I have shot hard Linotype lead bullets in my early Glock 23 for 18 years.

But I clean the chamber thoroughly with a bronze bore brush & solvent every time I shoot it.

rc

 

[gunnutery]

I'm down to my last box of 50 out of 500 lead bullet remanufactured rounds. All of them have been shot through my G22 without issue. Most of the time I was only shooting 50-100 at a time. I typically clean after each session.

 

[RX-79G]

It only takes two rounds:

The one that leads up the barrel.

The next one that blows up the barrel.



I think it is a mistake to assume that leading is always gradual.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

It only takes two rounds:

The one that leads up the barrel.

The next one that blows up the barrel.

I've shot until the barrel of a handgun looked like a smoothbore. Accuracy sucked but it cycled and shot fine.
Another lead bullet going down the tube of a leaded barrel (within reason) won't cause a dangerous spike in pressure because the lead bullet will size down to whatever the bore is. It's soft.
The problem comes when you don't clean them as rcmodel said, and then start shooting jacketed bullets. They don't size down when going through the leaded barrel, thus causing the pressure spike.

If your gun blows up after 2 lead bullets, it wasn't the lead that caused the problem.

 

[rcmodel]

Very True.

Bore leading is not what blows up Glocks, or any other gun.

Chamber headspace shoulder leading and firing out of battery is.

And that does not happen after one shot either.

rc

 

[RX-79G]

Depends on the blow up.

Case head failures from out of battery firing due to leaded chambers (and other reasons) are one thing.

But some of the Glock leading problems lead to pressure spikes that blew the barrel. Let's not pretend there is only one type of Glock explosion that caught everyone's attention.


Either way, there is no reason from the evidence offered to say that Glock leading ONLY happens after X number of shots and followed by jacketed ammo. That's a wild guess.

I have a perfectly operating Ruger MkII that once leaded up in just a few shots. It was likely an ammo problem, but .22s are not prone to leading at all. It also never happened again.

IF leading can occur in a relatively small number of shots, and that leading can cause a blowout of some variety during that same shooting session and ammo, why shoot lead in a gun with a reputation for blowing up do to the increased risk of leading?

I hope it isn't because someone read on a gun forum that it only happens because a jacketed round was shot afterwards.

 

[Robert101]

I am always amazed by this topic. My experiences tell me that shooting lead in Glock guns is a safe practice. I operate my firearms with good fundamentals, reload with good practices, and clean my guns probably more than most. I guess this topic is more akin to not changing oil and over-revving the engine in a car on a regular basis, and then stating that most internal combustion engines will break in only 5,000 miles. Well, now (after my deductive reasoning) understand why Glock states "do not shoot lead."