glue/resin for glock frame

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Polar Express

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I am considering doing some shaping of the 'backstrap' area of a Glock 20. it's a Gen 4, and I want to do some dremel work, and then stipple some places.

I'm pretty sure I'd like to fill the void area aft of the mag well on the underside of the grip. The reason I think I'd like to do this, is so I can do my dremel work with less worry (but still very careful) about going too thin in any one spot back there.

Has anyone found a suitable resin to fill that void with?

PE
 
Acraglas and nothing else.

First of all don't dremel. The right way to do a grip reduction is by heat, then very lightly sanding out the rough spots. If you do it right, then there won't be much sanding. I would also recommend sanding off the finger grooves at this point, as well as undercutting the trigger guard if you want to (it makes a big difference). If you do the grip reduction by sanding alone, you will sand away the backstrap, leaving only the resin showing, which cannot be stippled. It will also be much weaker in the end.

What you do is get a heat gun and heat up the backstrap. Wearing gloves, roll the protrusion of the grip on a flat metal surface, like the tang of a vice. Once it's flat enough for you, sand the edges to blend them into the frame. The finished product should be a straight line, like on a 1911.

At this point, I like to take the wood burner and fill in the hole for the retention lanyard. You take one of the backstraps that came with the pistol, cut it into little pieces, then use the spade shaped bit from the wood burner to melt them into place, plugging that hole.

Next you drill a hole in the inside of the frame, so that the resin has a mechanical lock. Then go into the backstrap with a small rasp or pointed file and rough up the interior as much as possible.

Then fill with Acraglas from Brownell's. This is important because Acraglas is the only thing that will flex. That void in the backstrap acts as a recoil dampener, so you want something that can absorb that shock. Marine tex is too stiff and brittle. I've seen many examples of Marine tex cracking and falling off due to the recoil induced flex of the polymer frame. After the Acraglas is set up, I would give it two days, sand off the excess. You can bevel it or leave it flat. Personally, I like a bobtail cut because it prints less under a shirt.

I found out that this is how the custom shops do it, at least the ones doing it right. So that's their big secret. Heat instead of sand, and use Acraglas instead of Marine tex or JB Weld. Some claim to use some special filler in the Acraglas, but I don't see it as being necessary. It's plenty strong, and you need flexibility more than added strength.

Whatever you do, do not use a soldering iron to stipple. It will come out horrible. You need a variable temp wood burner with a needle point bit and a spade bit. When you go to do the stippling, start by flattening the existing texture with the spade bit, then sand it smooth. This way, you're not sanding away material. After you have a smooth surface, mark out the areas you want textured in masking tape, and stipple a border. I highly recommend staying away from the web and trigger guard areas. To do the actual stippling, use the needle point at high temp. It should make a sizzling sound immediately and put off smoke. You need that bubbling effect to raise the most texture from the least amount of polymer. It should only take a split second of contact to raise one stipple, and not require much pressure. If you do indexes for the trigger fingers, or texture high up on the grip, remember that those areas house the rails that the slide rides on. They're embedded into the polymer, and if you weaken those areas you could cause problems. It's a good idea to move around a lot, too, as the heat builds up fast. Work on one area for a minute, then move to another area to let that one cool down.

You'll want to wear a full respirator the entire time. The Acraglas puts off fumes while it's curing, the dust from sanding it is probably very unhealthy (nowhere in its original purpose was sanding involved), and the fumes from the stippling will give you quite the headache if you're not wearing a good respirator.

Remember two things. It's worth it, and Glock will send you a new frame for 100 bucks if you mess it up. So you have much to gain and very little to lose.:cool:

ETA: For your first time, it might be best to stipple before adding the Acraglas. That way if you get carried away and heat up the backstrap too much, you won't ruin the bond between the Acraglas and the frame.
 
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Grampajack,

Thank you so very much for such a detailed answer! That's EXACTLY the kind of help I was hoping to find.

Being new to Glocks, but NOT new to polymers/composites, I didn't realize the frame was SUPPOSED to flex, as part of the recoil absorption. I was considering adding some sort of rigid insert (think re-bar in a concrete casting) inside that void when I filled it with whatever resin I chose... but I think I like your approach better.

Seeing as how the polymer Glock uses is a 'thermocast' (you heat it up to form it, and let it cool to set), and the various epoxies are all (or almost all) 'thermoset' (they develop heat with the catalytic reaction, thus causing the molecule chains to solidify) I was pretty sure if I filled first, then ground, then stippled, I might have a bit of an issue getting an epoxy-based resin to stipple very well. Although I have seen plenty of examples where folks heated up a fiberglass laminated piece, and gently bent it, then cooled it. (hockey sticks) I am quite certain my teammates had no idea the fiberglass wasn't supposed to work like that, but.... it worked for them. ha ha

Thanks again!!

PE
 
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Grampajack,

Thank you so very much for such a detailed answer! That's EXACTLY the kind of help I was hoping to find.

Being new to Glocks, but NOT new to polymers/composites, I didn't realize the frame was SUPPOSED to flex, as part of the recoil absorption. I was considering adding some sort of rigid insert (think re-bar in a concrete casting) inside that void when I filled it with whatever resin I chose... but I think I like your approach better.

Seeing as how the polymer Glock uses is a 'thermocast' (you heat it up to form it, and let it cool to set), and the various epoxies are all (or almost all) 'thermoset' (they develop heat with the catalytic reaction, thus causing the molecule chains to solidify) I was pretty sure if I filled first, then ground, then stippled, I might have a bit of an issue getting an epoxy-based resin to stipple very well. Although I have seen plenty of examples where folks heated up a fiberglass laminated piece, and gently bent it, then cooled it. (hockey sticks) I am quite certain my teammates had no idea the fiberglass wasn't supposed to work like that, but.... it worked for them. ha ha

Thanks again!!

PE

None of the eopoxy or resin will stipple. It doesn't melt, it just burns. Doing the heat reduction will leave a completely uniform result that looks like a factory gun. It also doesn't require painting because the only resin showing will simply look like a grip plug.

There's still quite a bit I haven't told you, so if you go ahead with it, please don't hesitate to ask questions as you go. If you decide to do it, I might be able to provide you with some pictures or something.
 
Instead of chopping the gun up and hurting the resale value why not just sell it and buy one that fits you better.
 
Instead of chopping the gun up and hurting the resale value why not just sell it and buy one that fits you better.

The resale value of a Glock? Seriously, who cares? It's a Glock for crying out loud. But, if you want to argue that, even though it's a moot point to begin with...here goes.

There have been threads on other forums about this subject, and the conclusion has always been that a professional level grip reduction doesn't hurt the resale value, and if it's good will even enhance it. If you have to pay someone to do it, then you're not likely to get your money back, but that goes for any custom work.

I've never met one single person who didn't think a grip reduction felt magnitudes better than the factory grip. Honestly, if more people had the opportunity to shoot a proper grip reduction, it would be much more popular, probably to the point that Glock would finally wake up and admit that their grip design is terrible.

Besides, who really cares about the resale value of a Glock??? If we were talking about a Nighthawk or something, then I would see your point. But a Glock? It's a tool, nothing more. I don't think anyone in history has ever bought a Glock for collecting purposes. If it helps the user, and it doesn't hurt reliability, then I say go for it. And again, if you decide you don't like it, then a new frame is only 100 bucks. That's about the same price as a halfway decent holster, and a third the price of a light/laser module, so as far as investments into carry guns go, this is a relatively inexpensive one.
 
grampajack said:
I don't think anyone in history has ever bought a Glock for collecting purposes.

It would appear that the members of the Glock Collector's Association would disagree with you.

http://www.personaldefenseworld.com...f-the-glock-collectors-association/#glock-043

My hey, my grandfather said the same thing about Colt single actions back in the 1930's. :(

My father said the same thing about surplus 1911's back in the 1960's. :(

I said the same thing about a Hemi Roadrunner for $700 that I passed up in the early 1970's. :(
 
It would appear that the members of the Glock Collector's Association would disagree with you.

http://www.personaldefenseworld.com...f-the-glock-collectors-association/#glock-043

My hey, my grandfather said the same thing about Colt single actions back in the 1930's. :(

My father said the same thing about surplus 1911's back in the 1960's. :(

I said the same thing about a Hemi Roadrunner for $700 that I passed up in the early 1970's. :(

So we should take every gun and car we own and seal them in lucite just in case they're collectible someday? While I'm sure you can find someone collecting Glocks, there are also people who collect beanie babies, antique fuses, random animal figurines, halmark crap, and the list goes on and on. What I should have said is no serious gun collector ever bought a Glock for investment purposes. Will they be collectible in a hundred years? Yea, probably a little bit. Will any of us be alive to reap the benefits? Not unless they figure out how to reverse aging!:evil:

You buy a Glock to shoot the proverbial scheisse out of it, and when it stops working you go out and buy another one. It's a tool, it's meant to be used, and it's perfectly acceptable to modify it in any way that doesn't hurt the reliability. It's like cerakoting a Colt 6920; you wouldn't do it to a Colt SP1, but the 6920 is fair game. Now if we were talking about a Gen1 Glock with the Austrian proof marks, then you might have a point. Your great grandkids might make a few bucks on that someday.
 
My question to the OP was less about hurting the resale and more about why modify it to that extent in the first place?

Like you said its nothing more than a tool so why not get the right tool for the job to start with?
 
My question to the OP was less about hurting the resale and more about why modify it to that extent in the first place?

Like you said its nothing more than a tool so why not get the right tool for the job to start with?

For me there are several reasons. I'm not thrilled with the grips of other polymer striker fired guns either, at least the ones available at the time I made the switch to Glock. They either have a terrible hunchback, like the Walthers, or the grip angle is wrong, or both. There were some that were somewhat better than the Glock, but I rejected them based on reliability or features I didn't like.

After the grip reduction, a Glock feels very similar to a double stack 1911 with a Glock grip angle. It's a little thicker than I would like, but other than that it's perfect in my opinion. It's really just about getting rid of the pressure points so that your hand is making even contact with all the surface area. With me, and I'm assuming other people, that hunchback creates a huge pressure point on the heel of the hand, so you get less purchase everywhere else. It makes the gun more difficult to control. You constantly hear people complain about Glocks shooting to the left, or is it to the right?, and I'm pretty sure it's that danged hunchback grip causing it.

Another biggie was availability of accessories. I've been tempted for several years to switch to a Sphinx compact or CZ P07, but just finding a holster for it is next to impossible. Throw a light into the mix, and it's just not going to happen. With the Glock 19, though, there are about five companies who make kydex holsters for every light/laser and sight combo on the market. If I want a Glock 19 with a TLR, red dot, threaded barrel, and suppressor sights, then Raven has an off the shelf holster for it, in any carry configuration I want.

Lastly, availability of parts, and the price. If something wears out, it's cheap and easy to fix. If a sphinx part wore out, then I would probably end up paying five times as much and probably have to wait for it to arrive from Switzerland. That's not to even mention magazines. I can get Glock mags for 10 bucks a pop on sale. Then there's always the possibility of some kind of ban or panic. The Glock 19/17 is about the most ubiquitous pistol in the US right now, so if I had to rely on the used market for replacement parts, it's more likely I would be able to find them.

Plus, I still like the grip reduced Glock better than the Sphinx or CZ. Yes, it's a lot of work, and no I wouldn't do it to a gun I planned on selling, but I feel it's well worth it.
 
Modifying a Glock? Well it's your property, your dime, sounds like it can be done. Personally, I've been very happy with mine in its stock configuration. It does what it is supposed to do without issues.

I put this in the same vein as the Glock torture tests. They are interesting to read and no doubt are a testament to the firearm - but will I intentionally treat my gun that way???

I figure Glock engineers are paid exceptionally well to keep their products current and competitive on the market. I will leave mine alone.

As a parting note, please share your experiences and photos of the finished product.

I can get Glock mags for 10 bucks a pop on sale. - grampajack

Factory new mags? Please share next time you come across these. I've been happy paying twice that.
 
Modifying a Glock? Well it's your property, your dime, sounds like it can be done. Personally, I've been very happy with mine in its stock configuration. It does what it is supposed to do without issues.

I put this in the same vein as the Glock torture tests. They are interesting to read and no doubt are a testament to the firearm - but will I intentionally treat my gun that way???

I figure Glock engineers are paid exceptionally well to keep their products current and competitive on the market. I will leave mine alone.

As a parting note, please share your experiences and photos of the finished product.



Factory new mags? Please share next time you come across these. I've been happy paying twice that.

May be closer to 15 for the factory ones, on sale. Still a screaming good deal, though. Some of my other pistols, especially 1911s, can be 40 bucks each for mags.
 
I'd love to see some pics. Even the 20SF is chunky. I can shoot it and do.... but it could stand improvement.
 
Instead of chopping the gun up and hurting the resale value why not just sell it and buy one that fits you better.

ThompsonCustom: A host of reasons, I'm pretty meticulous when I make a plan, and in my judgment, this is my best plan- for ME. I don't give two-hoots about resale, it's a plastic gun for gosh sake!! The Glocks ergo's plain suck, but the 19 is the perfect CC size for how I wish to carry. Nothing else I found compared, and because it's plastic, it's easy to form to my preferred grip. The G20 is for woods carry, (critter defense) so I wanted a 10mm that worked identically to my CC piece, as both are carried for self-defense.

Modifying a Glock? Well it's your property, your dime, sounds like it can be done. Personally, I've been very happy with mine in its stock configuration. It does what it is supposed to do without issues.

PRM: I suspect my hands are shaped differently than yours, and I suspect that I have different shooting experiences than you do. Thus, my preferences for how a gun should feel in my hand will be different than yours. I've never been afraid to mod something if I can make it suit my needs better than factory designs. Remember, factory engineers design stuff for low cost mass production, and appeal to the largest % of market share they can. That means less consideration for individual variables in ergonomic preferences, and given that many Glock fans have limited (or no) experience shooting prior to their Glock products, many don't know what is available if they simply look, ask or try.

I'm not in a super hurry, but I'll be more than happy to follow up on this thread with images and reviews of my efforts.

PE
 
I suspect that I have different shooting experiences than you do Remember, factory engineers design stuff for low cost mass production, and appeal to the largest % of market share they can. That means less consideration for individual variables in ergonomic preferences, and given that many Glock fans have limited (or no) experience shooting prior to their Glock products, many don't know what is available if they simply look, ask or try.

I am sure there is always better. As I posted, it's your dime... And I would like to see pics of the finished product.

The short of it from my perspective, since experience seems to be an issue. I have been a full time Range Instructor at our State Police Academy since 1997 with the Basic Recruit Classes. We train most of the county and local officers in our state, along with a few of the state agencies. Glock currently holds a good 90% of those agencies represented as their issue gun. So, I can speak from some experience for the factory guns. They work.
 
I am sure there is always better. As I posted, it's your dime... And I would like to see pics of the finished product.

The short of it from my perspective, since experience seems to be an issue. I have been a full time Range Instructor at our State Police Academy since 1997 with the Basic Recruit Classes. We train most of the county and local officers in our state, along with a few of the state agencies. Glock currently holds a good 90% of those agencies represented as their issue gun. So, I can speak from some experience for the factory guns. They work.

If you did full grip reductions on all your service weapons, I would be willing to wager that marksmanship scores would improve, especially in terms of smaller shooters in your department. Obviously this isn't going to happen for logistical reasons, but I think you would be surprised how much better it feels for a small shooter. Like me, I'm 5,8 and it's an issue for me, so I can't imagine a 5,5 woman. I even have bigger hands for my size, so it would probably benefit most people up to 5,10 or so. Starting at six feet, you might see diminishing returns, I don't know. Regardless of size, though, I think a straight grip is always going to be preferred over a hunchback.
 
ThompsonCustom: A host of reasons, I'm pretty meticulous when I make a plan, and in my judgment, this is my best plan- for ME. I don't give two-hoots about resale, it's a plastic gun for gosh sake!! The Glocks ergo's plain suck, but the 19 is the perfect CC size for how I wish to carry. Nothing else I found compared, and because it's plastic, it's easy to form to my preferred grip. The G20 is for woods carry, (critter defense) so I wanted a 10mm that worked identically to my CC piece, as both are carried for self-defense.



PRM: I suspect my hands are shaped differently than yours, and I suspect that I have different shooting experiences than you do. Thus, my preferences for how a gun should feel in my hand will be different than yours. I've never been afraid to mod something if I can make it suit my needs better than factory designs. Remember, factory engineers design stuff for low cost mass production, and appeal to the largest % of market share they can. That means less consideration for individual variables in ergonomic preferences, and given that many Glock fans have limited (or no) experience shooting prior to their Glock products, many don't know what is available if they simply look, ask or try.

I'm not in a super hurry, but I'll be more than happy to follow up on this thread with images and reviews of my efforts.

PE

It sounds like you've made up your mind. Again, please stay in touch, and I can give you detailed information for each step. There's quite a bit that can go wrong, so it's not to be taken lightly. It also takes time. If you time the resin right, then you could probably get it done on a long weekend, assuming you did all the prep work fast enough.

When you're ready to pull the trigger, let me know and I'll send you a list of tools and supplies.
 
Update:

Today, when I went into my chosen store, I was fondling the G4G20 they had, when the guy behind the counter winked at me and asked if I want to see something really cool... (this always gets expensive)

I walked out, the proud new owner of a G40 MOS.... that extra barrel length means more energy out of those rounds, and since I was already considering an aftermarket longer barrel, the cost to upgrade to the G40 was less than an aftermarket barrel.

She's a touch more nose-heavy, but I'm plenty big and strong to handle that, so I decided not to whine about it, and just step up.

Since this is a G4, I won't have to mod that rear of the grip nearly as much as a G3 unit... So... double win.

PE
 
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Modifying for the sake of modifying is pretty goofy, though people can do what they want with their stuff. Modifying to achieve some personal level of fit and utility makes sense, and resale be damned. My XD is heavily stippled in the grip. I doubt I could sell it for what I paid for it. On the other hand, I have a dependable pistol with extremely positive traction that now does the job I demand of it better than it did stock. I could not have purchased a pistol that had this modification. I took a good, dependable gun and made it, for me, a better tool.
 
Another Glock about to be ruined.. I see these butchered Glocks for sale all the time. It's heartbreaking..Leave the damn gun alone and adjust to it. I've been shooting for 35 years and have never had to adjust a gun to fit me. If you know how to shoot there is no reason for this destructive fad.
 
I am a strong supporter of making one's tools work well for the owner. Some of the Glock mods I've seen are very aesthetically pleasing....but those who advise shooting first before jumping in are certainly giving good advice. Picking up my 20Sf in the house had me thinking" It sure would feel better slimmer and without finger grooves." I took it to the range today. It feels absolutely fine when actually shooting it.On target and controllable. Ha!
 
Another Glock about to be ruined.. I see these butchered Glocks for sale all the time. It's heartbreaking..Leave the damn gun alone and adjust to it. I've been shooting for 35 years and have never had to adjust a gun to fit me. If you know how to shoot there is no reason for this destructive fad.

There are so many things wrong with this, I don't even know where to begin. People modify firearms all the time, and doing so doesn't mean you "don't know how to shoot." In fact, if you look at the world's leading shooters in any category, you find a plethora of highly modified firearms. I guess they should heed your advice and just learn how to shoot, huh? In fact, a recent article discussed some of the country's top firearms instructors and competitive shooters in terms of what equipment they used and any modifications they made to their carry pieces. Some were stock, but many were heavily modified.

Furthermore, it's been recognized for ages that Glocks aren't comfortable for most people. Companies like Robar have been doing Glock modification for I don't even know how long, and some very well respected names have endorsed them. Lastly, a proper grip reduction is far more appropriate than some janky rubber sleeve, or even the backstraps that come with the Gen 4s. It's a very elegant solution to a nagging problem.

And lastly, who are you to tell someone else what to do with their own property, or to lecture them about it? The guy asks for help, and you take that as an invitation to put him down, along with everyone else who modifies their guns? Quite frankly, it's none of your business what we do with our guns, and your approval is neither needed nor is it wanted.
 
grampajack said:
While I'm sure you can find someone collecting Glocks, there are also people who collect beanie babies, antique fuses, random animal figurines, halmark crap, and the list goes on and on. What I should have said is no serious gun collector ever bought a Glock for investment purposes

Which brands do you deem collectible? Are the Colt, S&W, Sig, HK, CZ, H&R, Marlin, Remington, Winchester, etc, etc, etc collectors also "not serious" in your view?

grampajack said:
Quite frankly, it's none of your business what we do with our guns, and your approval is neither needed nor is it wanted.

Good advice. You should take it.
 
I am sure the OP appreciates grampajack's detailed answer to the OQ.

As to collectability, it depends on your starting point and your long term intentions.

Frex, I would investigate the resale value of my G17 Gen 1 before altering it. It has not even had the factory "upgrade." Best to leave it as is, there might be some collectability.

If you are a member of the Gun of the Month Club and went from Gen 1 to Gen 2, 3, 4, and are anxiously awaiting the chance to turn your Gen 4 in on a FBI M gun, best to leave it as is. Tradein value will be better.

If you are a regular shooter, have "learned how to shoot" and feel the equipment can be improved, have at it.

My FLKB (Friendly Local Kydex Bender) showed me his pet G20 last week. It has an aftermarket slide and barrel, bringing it up to the longest that will fit the IDPA Box.
But wait!
He worked the butt over by sanding off the finger grooves, reducing the circumference, and roughening the surfaces so he could coat it with truck bed liner(!) which he sanded to a smooth but grippy rubber texture. There was enough buildup to form a S&W-like palm swell on the right and a narrow ridge on the left which he says serves as an index for his left hand.
No doubt his grandchildren will miss out on the collector value, if any, decades down the road, but he is liking the way it handles and shoots.
 
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