ok I have been shooting and hunting since I was 9, as a 42 year old who will be attending the utah CCW class taught by a member of this fine forum , can any one with a ccw please advise me of questions that should be brought up during the class? I am not referring to the state laws but those little things that when you got home from the class you said dang I shoulda asked about that .
going to a CCW class what to ask?
- Thread starter flynlr
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Exmasonite
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Actually, i find that some of those state laws ARE the most important. Specifically, the places that are off limits to CCW. Our course had a legal specialist from the area and it was a great resource talking about university/school carry, laws about alcohol serving establishments, etc.
Aside from that, it's a lot of good, common sense but probably stuff you already know. (get a gun/caliber you can handle... don't take everything at face value. there'll be that story about a CCW-er who accidentally shot an undercover cop, etc.)
Aside from that, it's a lot of good, common sense but probably stuff you already know. (get a gun/caliber you can handle... don't take everything at face value. there'll be that story about a CCW-er who accidentally shot an undercover cop, etc.)
It is funny. My class in my state covered basic handgun safety, and that was about it. Of course, during breaks, you could ask, and generally get an answer. But there was very little about legal aspects, or the defensive use of a firearm.
In Maine, the law says that the NRA course is acceptable. The NRA basic handgun safety course does not cover any of this.
I also have to wonder how much one would want to believe an instructor who is not skilled in the law about what specific things are legal or not. I don't even think a police officer would be the person. I think that you would be better off to hire a lawyer and pay him for a couple of hours to tell you just what you need to know legally. After all, he is the one that you are going to depend upon to defend you if needed.
In Maine, the law says that the NRA course is acceptable. The NRA basic handgun safety course does not cover any of this.
I also have to wonder how much one would want to believe an instructor who is not skilled in the law about what specific things are legal or not. I don't even think a police officer would be the person. I think that you would be better off to hire a lawyer and pay him for a couple of hours to tell you just what you need to know legally. After all, he is the one that you are going to depend upon to defend you if needed.
40SW
Member
As an NRA certified firearms instructor, we are not qualified to instruct students on the legal aspects. Students have to remember that we are not attorneys. Firearms instructors are qualified to instruct in the safe and proper use of a firearm and shooting fundamentals. Some are also qualified to teach tactical aspects such as cover, concealment, weapon retention, mindset, etc, but its always important to keep in mind that most range facilities and similar environments have specific liability exclusions that allow them to pretty much only hand out a copy of the legal statute, internet links, etc, but certain aspects of liability insurance preclude instructors from commenting on legal aspects.
The number one thing that we are taught is not to comment on what is beyond our scope of training. Students are instructed to read the statutes carefully and are provided with the tools, but if a student asks for example?
" If someone comes at me with their fists, is it ok to respond with lethal force?"
Most statutes refer to "eminent threat to life and limb?", etc.
We cannot comment "yes, of course, Your life is danger!!"
With regret, we live in a very letigious society and alot of instructors get into trouble for saying things to students that they cannot back on the witness stand.
The number one thing that we are taught is not to comment on what is beyond our scope of training. Students are instructed to read the statutes carefully and are provided with the tools, but if a student asks for example?
" If someone comes at me with their fists, is it ok to respond with lethal force?"
Most statutes refer to "eminent threat to life and limb?", etc.
We cannot comment "yes, of course, Your life is danger!!"
With regret, we live in a very letigious society and alot of instructors get into trouble for saying things to students that they cannot back on the witness stand.
+1 to .40SW
I teach NRA pistol classes and the most in-depth I will get on laws is a copy of the statutes and a link to the state website. I urge all to talk to a retain a reputable self defense lawyer.
Our state requires an NRA class as one of the ways to get you CCW permit. We teach safe and responsible pistol handling, not legal apsects.
Tke any legal advice you get from a CCW teacher with a very large grain of salt (in fact, ignore it)
have fun!
I teach NRA pistol classes and the most in-depth I will get on laws is a copy of the statutes and a link to the state website. I urge all to talk to a retain a reputable self defense lawyer.
Our state requires an NRA class as one of the ways to get you CCW permit. We teach safe and responsible pistol handling, not legal apsects.
Tke any legal advice you get from a CCW teacher with a very large grain of salt (in fact, ignore it)
have fun!
My CCW instructor requires attendance at a question and answer session with the local deputy DA, even though it's not required by law.
It was a valuable session, and we're lucky to have a member of the DA's office who is both self-defense friendly AND willing to give up a couple of evenings a month for these sessions. Steve Feldman is his name.
It was a valuable session, and we're lucky to have a member of the DA's office who is both self-defense friendly AND willing to give up a couple of evenings a month for these sessions. Steve Feldman is his name.
Baba Louie
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Here's a couple of questions than come to mind...
If I am involved in a self defense shooting, will my class training be called into evidence (criminal and civil court) and if so, how should I best prepare info for my attornies use? (Is there a class syllabus? Handouts? Related reference material covered in class? Should I prepare a 3-ring binder? etc)
If I am... will you (trainer/instructor, etc) be called in as a witness in regards to my training?
There's classroom training, range training, what about post action training? (The old "what do I do after the shooting is over?" scenario)
Is there any difference, (or explain any difference), between self defense shooting scenarios at home vs, out and about, i.e. duty to retreat, cover, etc.
If I draw my weapon must I pull the trigger?
I could think of many more, as I am sure you could as well, and I think that most everything you or I could come up with in way of questions have been covered repeatedly in the S&T forum. You and I know there is no set, correct one answer fits all scenarios... but it does give you some questions to generate classroom discussion and/or to cover with your attorney.
(You DO have an attorney lined up I hope?)
If I am involved in a self defense shooting, will my class training be called into evidence (criminal and civil court) and if so, how should I best prepare info for my attornies use? (Is there a class syllabus? Handouts? Related reference material covered in class? Should I prepare a 3-ring binder? etc)
If I am... will you (trainer/instructor, etc) be called in as a witness in regards to my training?
There's classroom training, range training, what about post action training? (The old "what do I do after the shooting is over?" scenario)
Is there any difference, (or explain any difference), between self defense shooting scenarios at home vs, out and about, i.e. duty to retreat, cover, etc.
If I draw my weapon must I pull the trigger?
I could think of many more, as I am sure you could as well, and I think that most everything you or I could come up with in way of questions have been covered repeatedly in the S&T forum. You and I know there is no set, correct one answer fits all scenarios... but it does give you some questions to generate classroom discussion and/or to cover with your attorney.
(You DO have an attorney lined up I hope?)
zminer
Member
State laws seem like a good thing to ask about, or (as people have noted) a good thing to ask for sources on. Don't rely on legal advice from someone who is not a lawyer.
I'd ask if they know where you can take further courses, if you want them - home defense courses, for example. I'd ask about local ranges, and other local assets.
I guess just ask whatever comes to mind. For me, the best information to have is not whatever I can cram into a limited amount of time, but rather the information I need to get help in the future. For example, I'd ask if they'd be all right with me contacting them if I have a question after the class ends (in the case of an "oh, I forgot to ask...!" scenario).
I'd ask if they know where you can take further courses, if you want them - home defense courses, for example. I'd ask about local ranges, and other local assets.
I guess just ask whatever comes to mind. For me, the best information to have is not whatever I can cram into a limited amount of time, but rather the information I need to get help in the future. For example, I'd ask if they'd be all right with me contacting them if I have a question after the class ends (in the case of an "oh, I forgot to ask...!" scenario).
GBExpat
Member
IMO, probably the most important thing is the list of where you may not carry ... a list that is good to memorize ... and also to check online for any updates/modifications periodically (as I will do after I post this).
I'm glad this thread was here since it caused me to check my license ... I don't have to renew again until '09 ... I was thinking that it was '08, but it is the Notary license that is '08 ... haven't notarized anything in awhile ...
Some folks in this state (VA) have to take a course, but not all. One of the exemptions is if you have been licensed for CCW in the past.
I was licensed for several years in the latter half of the '70s and first half of the '80s (in different parts of VA).
[OT] During that period, I only came close to "clearing leather" twice ... once when a Plainclothes officer was approaching me aggressively (from a car that suddenly stopped ~40 yds away) at 3am on the boardwalk (I recognized him and called his name before he recognized me) and the other time as I was reaching for the doorknob, the perp a few feet on the other side of the door, started hacking at a padlock with the meat cleaver that he had taken from the kitchen upstairs ... I quietly backed away and called the 2nd precinct for assistance.
I am glad that I did not have to take a course, but I am happy to know both that some do and that such courses are available for all.
Kim
I'm glad this thread was here since it caused me to check my license ... I don't have to renew again until '09 ... I was thinking that it was '08, but it is the Notary license that is '08 ... haven't notarized anything in awhile ...
Some folks in this state (VA) have to take a course, but not all. One of the exemptions is if you have been licensed for CCW in the past.
I was licensed for several years in the latter half of the '70s and first half of the '80s (in different parts of VA).
[OT] During that period, I only came close to "clearing leather" twice ... once when a Plainclothes officer was approaching me aggressively (from a car that suddenly stopped ~40 yds away) at 3am on the boardwalk (I recognized him and called his name before he recognized me) and the other time as I was reaching for the doorknob, the perp a few feet on the other side of the door, started hacking at a padlock with the meat cleaver that he had taken from the kitchen upstairs ... I quietly backed away and called the 2nd precinct for assistance.
I am glad that I did not have to take a course, but I am happy to know both that some do and that such courses are available for all.
Kim
Linda
Member
As an instructor, at the beginning of every class, I tell them "if you have a guestion, ask! The only stupid guestion is the one that is never asked". So, if something comes to you throughout the course, ask!
As far as the legal, I ALWAYS have a gun rights attorney come in and talk to the class of the legalities of concealed carry. I could very easily instruct that part, but I think it has more impact coming from an attorney. I just wish more instructors were doing the same thing.
As far as the legal, I ALWAYS have a gun rights attorney come in and talk to the class of the legalities of concealed carry. I could very easily instruct that part, but I think it has more impact coming from an attorney. I just wish more instructors were doing the same thing.
Phydeaux642
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The guys that taught my CCW class are with the Sheriff's Department here in my county and most of what we discussed was the law. The question I should have asked after qualifying in the shooting portion of the class is why there isn't a required class that teaches folks how to handle a firearm. I tell you, there was some scary looking stuff happening at the range that night. Some of those folks could barely hit a man sized target at 7 yards with a .22.
_________________
"Phydeaux, bad dog....no biscuit!"
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"Phydeaux, bad dog....no biscuit!"
well the class was well attended and taught today by a fellow THR member.
All the Firearms basics were covered along with requirements specific to Carry permit holders. specific Laws and regulations covering the where how when you can carry along with force Justification and the State specific carry laws were well covered. I had a couple of questions that were answered and other members of the class had several more that added to getting a basic understanding of the responsibilities of carrying a concealed firearm. we had some interesting computer based simulation training that covered several scenarios which I think really added to the classroom training.
Overall it was very enlightening and is a good first step towards safely and comfortably carrying concealed. More training at least for myself is in the near future. I will use this time between taking the course and getting the permit
to get more hands on training.
Thanks for all your replies that last couple of days.
and kudos to Larry Correia for a great class. and what was that sim program we used?
All the Firearms basics were covered along with requirements specific to Carry permit holders. specific Laws and regulations covering the where how when you can carry along with force Justification and the State specific carry laws were well covered. I had a couple of questions that were answered and other members of the class had several more that added to getting a basic understanding of the responsibilities of carrying a concealed firearm. we had some interesting computer based simulation training that covered several scenarios which I think really added to the classroom training.
Overall it was very enlightening and is a good first step towards safely and comfortably carrying concealed. More training at least for myself is in the near future. I will use this time between taking the course and getting the permit
to get more hands on training.
Thanks for all your replies that last couple of days.
and kudos to Larry Correia for a great class. and what was that sim program we used?
MICHAEL T
Member
Is it time to shoot yet? Is it time to shoot yet. ? Thats the most important question. In Ky I advise my friends to take no doz along as it is a boreing class.
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
Yep. If it were up to me, there'd be an hour set aside after the class to sit around over soft drinks, questions, answers, and the like.
Thanks, flynlr. I think I put on a pretty good class, even though we were packed in there like cattle (my fault, overbooked, and everybody actually showed up) and I didn't have the air conditioner vent open for the first hour!
The simulator program is from Prism.
Michael, as for boring, that is one thing I've not been accused of. I had one fellow in the class who travelled a lot, and had taken the CCW class for 3 other states, and he said mine was by far the best. Compliments like that make my day.
The simulator program is from Prism.
Michael, as for boring, that is one thing I've not been accused of.
I had one fellow in the class who travelled a lot, and had taken the CCW class for 3 other states, and he said mine was by far the best. Compliments like that make my day.- Status
