Going to the dark side: First black gun - what to do?

[JumboJVT]

I have been long thinking about a 223 bolt gun to fill in my perceived gap between hot-loaded 22 Hornet and downloaded 270. At least that is the excuse I've been using to justify looking at new guns. I've never had a need or want of an AR before. Just personal preference I guess. But it has now come to the point that I can no longer stand the idea of the Left telling me what I can't have. So now I've decided that 223 will be black.

My intended use? I guess call it short/mid-range varmint and home defense. As most already seem to know, the options are bewildering. Since I have no experience with AR's not really sure what I want. I tend to be a "buy once, cry once" type, but that approach only really works when you know what you want. It will have an optic; got that covered. I do shoot game on the move and prefer a forward support hand position, so I want a long forearm. Lighter/shorter would be better, but not so much that follow-through is compromised. After doing a bunch of research, I've come to what I think are my must/should haves:

-16"-18" Wyle chamber 1:8 barrel (shoot broad range of weights well)
- Mid-length gas system (soft shooting/easy on the gun)
- Mil-spec receivers (for ease of upgrades)
- Mid-grade, name-brand receivers (for resale)
Beyond these items...well, ya just don't know what you don't know.

I'd prefer to start with something assembled-by-others. I'll have plenty of time to cipher on upgrades and screw up the gun later. I'm thinking $1000-$1200. Wallowing in my own ignorance, I've come up with two options that seem to reasonably assure a good starting point: A Springfield Saint Victor or complete Aero Precision Upper/Lower/BCG (I dare to assemble that much).

Mo better ideas? Thanks.

 

[Archie]

I'm not a fan of AR type rifles either. However, the .223 Remington is not a bad round for the purposes designed. A bolt gun seems to be the answer.
I did the same thing with 7.65x39mm; I have a CZ bolt gun in said caliber and enjoy it.

My problem is I have a passel of rifles I don't shoot much as it is. I do have a .22 Hornet, the next one up is .257 Roberts. Besides, I collect other types of arms. I've got most of the 'shooting' guns I need or want.

 

[entropy]

The Aero Precision option is your best entry option of what you listed.

 

[Demi-human]

Black? First thing, paint it.
A nice reliable brown, like a good pair of shoes.

I’d take an Aero over a Saint. Both are good, I feel Aero is more gooder. No, truthfully, just don’t like Springfield. They just put me off for some reason. Personal preference I guess.

In your shoes, I’d buy an Aero lower, done how you want, and order an Aero upper straight to my house. Pin together. Finished rifle. Install optic.

I really like the M4E1s. They are aesthetically pleasing and offer good upgrades. Their Gen2 mil-spec receivers are great quality as well.

Slim and lightweight is the new “Enhanced”.

 

[Demi-human]

These are 20% off today…
https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/m4e1-threaded-complete-upper-16in-223-wylde-fluted-atlas-s-one

And any lower would work, but why not match?
https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/m4e1-complete-lower-receiver-w-moe-grip-sl-s-carbine-stock

They can be had in FDE as well. And for these prices, you have cash left for Lancer AW5 magazines.


Gosh, now you’ve got ME shopping!
(For the kids! Yeah, that’s it!)

 

[hoardingthemanual]

I chose Battle Arms Development. Aero Precision is popular but not for everyone.

 

[Demi-human]

A BAD fan here, too, but their Workhorse base model just barely hits the top budget limit.

I really like those Authority receivers.
I’m looking around for the weight for a set of those. Probably not 2A Balios light, but they sure look good doing it!

Now definitely is the time for an AR purchase!
The Golden Age of tech, price, and even availability.

 

[mavracer]

Hard to beat a 16" AR with a good barrel, trigger and glass for what you want.
I've used a few Aero receivers and Ballistic Advantage barrels which Aero uses for their uppers good stuff.
My 16" general purpose carbine is Aero receivers with a White Oak barrel, I have a Larue MBT2 trigger and the rest is basic bargain mil spec. The Optic is a US Optic TS12x in an Aero lightweight mount, I absolutely love this set up.

 

[JDeere]

Can't go wrong with PSA. Get what you want and have plenty left over for ammo. Get a complete rifle or pick your lower and upper separately...

 

[JumboJVT]

These are 20% off today…
https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/m4e1-threaded-complete-upper-16in-223-wylde-fluted-atlas-s-one

And any lower would work, but why not match?
https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/m4e1-complete-lower-receiver-w-moe-grip-sl-s-carbine-stock

They can be had in FDE as well. And for these prices, you have cash left for Lancer AW5 magazines.


Gosh, now you’ve got ME shopping!
(For the kids! Yeah, that’s it!)

I was hoping for this kinda of reply. I'm still a bit peaved at Springfield and do dislike the trademark on the magwell. And yup, eye on the Aero sale!

 

[JumboJVT]

I chose Battle Arms Development. Aero Precision is popular but not for everyone.

I'll take a look. Thanks.

 

[jmr40]

While it may not meet all of your criteria, the Ruger MPR is a pretty good all-around choice for someone wanting to open a box, mount optics, and go shoot. Mine is as accurate as the bolt guns I've shot. The 18" barrel is a good compromise length and the trigger is better than most AR's. The price is reasonable

Ruger® AR-556® MPR Autoloading Rifle Model 8514

 

[lightman]

My last AR was a Springfield Saint. Its a mid level rifle and is fairly accurate and has proven reliable. I think its a 1-9 twist. But if you don't like Springfield ..............! My next choice was a Sig at twice the cost.

 

[Picher]

I have been long thinking about a 223 bolt gun to fill in my perceived gap between hot-loaded 22 Hornet and downloaded 270. At least that is the excuse I've been using to justify looking at new guns. I've never had a need or want of an AR before. Just personal preference I guess. But it has now come to the point that I can no longer stand the idea of the Left telling me what I can't have. So now I've decided that 223 will be black.

My intended use? I guess call it short/mid-range varmint and home defense. As most already seem to know, the options are bewildering. Since I have no experience with AR's not really sure what I want. I tend to be a "buy once, cry once" type, but that approach only really works when you know what you want. It will have an optic; got that covered. I do shoot game on the move and prefer a forward support hand position, so I want a long forearm. Lighter/shorter would be better, but not so much that follow-through is compromised. After doing a bunch of research, I've come to what I think are my must/should haves:

-16"-18" Wyle chamber 1:8 barrel (shoot broad range of weights well)
- Mid-length gas system (soft shooting/easy on the gun)
- Mil-spec receivers (for ease of upgrades)
- Mid-grade, name-brand receivers (for resale)
Beyond these items...well, ya just don't know what you don't know.

I'd prefer to start with something assembled-by-others. I'll have plenty of time to cipher on upgrades and screw up the gun later. I'm thinking $1000-$1200. Wallowing in my own ignorance, I've come up with two options that seem to reasonably assure a good starting point: A Springfield Saint Victor or complete Aero Precision Upper/Lower/BCG (I dare to assemble that much).

Mo better ideas? Thanks.

When a teen, my buddy and I used to hunt varmints with .30-06 bolt rifles, as practice for deer hunting. We then got more sophisticated about varmint hunting and got .22-250 Rem. bolt rifles. The .22-250 cartridge is really great out to about 300 yards or so, gaining a few hundred FPS over the .223 Rem, but cases tend to expand a bit much. Yet, it shoots flatter and hits harder than the .223 Rem and better for larger varmints like coyotes.
JP

 

[JumboJVT]

While it may not meet all of your criteria, the Ruger MPR is a pretty good all-around choice for someone wanting to open a box, mount optics, and go shoot. Mine is as accurate as the bolt guns I've shot. The 18" barrel is a good compromise length and the trigger is better than most AR's. The price is reasonable

Ruger® AR-556® MPR Autoloading Rifle Model 8514

Almost went just that way before I even asked here. Ruger is kinda my default "look-there-first" manufacturer. But the last two guns I bought had a lower quality assembly/finishing than I'd expected, and right now I read alot about QC issues. I know, its the interweb, and that they'll make it right in the end, but it's a PITA. But I will take another look. Thanks.

 

[dranrab]

I know that you said that you prefer something assembled by others. Consider buying a complete upper and a complete lower. You are going to be separating the upper and lower on whatever you buy to clean it, so having to use the two simple takedown pins to connect the complete upper and complete lower shouldn't be a deal breaker. Someone recommended this route to me, and I took it. I am glad that I did.

Wylde chamber and 18" stainless barrel.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...weight-m-lok-upper-with-bcg-ch-516445214.html

Available in an assortment of colors. The EPT (enhanced polished trigger) is worth spending a few extra bucks on. Trigger snobs will scoff at it, but it's quite a bit nicer than what you'll find in sub $1000 guns.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar15-complete-moe-ept-stealth-lower-black.html

At under $550 it will blow away anything else in the ready built sub-$1000 range. I took mine to the range for the first time last week. I got it sighted in then fired a few groups for accuracy. I had 2 different groups out of about 5 different loads that were 3/4"

 

[Demi-human]

I'll take a look. Thanks.

Aww, yeah…

Oh, wait. Varmints, too. Dang.
And not $2900. Got it.

I'm still a bit peaved at Springfield

I don’t know anything about that. Just my take on the marketing. But it’s hard to be Hard in the AR tacti-club. And like @lightman ’s experience, my sister’s husband likes his just fine.

It is very hard to go wrong wading in the quality AR ool. Heck, it’s even hard to go wrong in the budget AR pool, but it smells funny from all the, um, “matches”.

 

[MachIVshooter]

A decent upper and bolt carrier group with a good barrel in a free floated handguard, and a quality trigger. That's where the accuracy is. Everything else is personal preference stuff.

For triggers, many options out there, but I'm a big fan of the Hyperfires. Not cheap, but they're performers.

https://www.opticsplanet.com/hiperfire-hipertouch-24-trigger-assembly.html

 

[dranrab]

While it may not meet all of your criteria, the Ruger MPR is a pretty good all-around choice for someone wanting to open a box, mount optics, and go shoot. Mine is as accurate as the bolt guns I've shot. The 18" barrel is a good compromise length and the trigger is better than most AR's. The price is reasonable

Ruger® AR-556® MPR Autoloading Rifle Model 8514

I have one of these as well. It had to go back to Ruger, as is all too often the case with Ruger guns, because magazines wouldn't seat. I got it back, and it's a great gun. They are about $750 right now. I'd take the PSA for the same money. At $200 less, the PSA is a no-brainer.

The trigger has a lot of gritty travel. The PSA EPT is better. I found a load that my Ruger loves. 100 yards. Fired 3, adjusted up and right, fired 3 more.

 

[mavracer]

It is very hard to go wrong wading in the quality AR ool. Heck, it’s even hard to go wrong in the budget AR pool, but it smells funny from all the, um, “matches”.

Yep they all have service departments and put out a few oopses.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Welcome to the Dark Side!

I was a late adopter of the AR and .223 too, and now Im all in on the Black Lego rifles.

There really isnt a "bad" manufacturer out there. Even with PSA or Anderson, your chances of getting an out-of-spec part are tiny, so IMO, theres no reason to spend extra on a boutique recever set for your first, basic do-all gun. If you wanna splurge a bit, spend the extra $$ on a good barrel, extra mags and ammo, comfy stocks, and upgraded glass.

Just my 2c. Any way you slice it, ARs are fun and practical. Enjoy!

 

[Speedo66]

I felt the same a few years ago, bought an AR, very disappointed. Sold it, bought a Mini-14, very happy.

Buy a Mini with a synthetic stock if you still want a black rifle. If you haven't bought an AR by now, do you really want one?

 

[JumboJVT]

I felt the same a few years ago, bought an AR, very disappointed. Sold it, bought a Mini-14, very happy.

Buy a Mini with a synthetic stock if you still want a black rifle. If you haven't bought an AR by now, do you really want one?

May be my path as well. Makes even more sense here in VT limited to 10 rnd magazines. But I do like to tinker and have a hard time leaving anything stock, which is making me lean AR. And my mother always told be I needed to try something first before turning up my nose. Worst-case I loose a little money and end up with a Mini14. That is my primary concern when going name-brand, factory assembly: resale. And an AR will bother some people more...not that I'm that way...

But your comment does beg the question: will a new production Mini shoot well? MOA-ish? Can it be made to shoot well reasonably easily? It appears to be a straightforward (if not inexpensive) process to get an AR to shoot pretty well.

 

[Speedo66]

But your comment does beg the question: will a new production Mini shoot well? MOA-ish? Can it be made to shoot well reasonably easily? It appears to be a straightforward (if not inexpensive) process to get an AR to shoot pretty well.

I don't think a Mini will ever shoot as well as a dialed in AR, however, the poor accuracy reputation was earned by the older thin barreled Mini's.

The new Mini's probably still won't shoot MOA out of the box, but are noticeably better. For what I want it for, I'm okay with that.

Plus, having trained with a M-14, I have to admit I'm more of a wood and steel fan, so there's that.

 

[Varminterror]

I’ve built literally hundreds of AR’s for customers over the last 20yrs, and have come to offer the same advice to anyone seeking a “general use” AR. This list is based upon the customers both which came with factory 16” mil-spec rifles to have modified, or those which came back to have the 16” carbines they originally ordered from me to be modified, when they realized lacking utility:

• 18-20” barrel (mid-length gas for 18, rifle for 20”)
• 1:8” or 1:7” twist
• Free-float handguard
• mid-weight contour with .750” gas block and muzzle (DCM/NM contour is great)
• upgraded trigger
• carbine stock, not fixie
• flat top upper (less pertinent these days)
• low profile gas block, preferably adjustable

Everything else starts getting user or application specific, so for the general use rifle, sometimes fast, sometimes accurate, this hits pretty close to center mass.