My first (well second) evil black gun

[cmhellie]

I would like to get input from the forum on what platforms to consider for a future "evil black gun" purchase.

Here are a few criteria I would like to achieve.
1. Ability to customize in the future
2. Plenty of rail space
3. Flat top preferred
4. Heavy barrel preferred
5. Collapsible stock preferred
6. .308 preferred over .223

Any and all suggestions are appreciated.

My first AR was a Bushmaster and while it was fun to shoot, the problems I had with feeding and ability to customize negated the fun.

Additionally, could someone tell me how to determine if a weapon can fire both .223 and 5.56 or .308 and 7.62? I would like that flexibility as well.

I hope this isn't too juvenile to ask, but I really know very little about rifles in general and would like to purchase one soon.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[Tommygunn]

7.62 x 51 and .308 are interchangeable. Be careful when you mention 7.62, IIRC there is a 7.62 x 54 which is not the same.

If you get a AR marked as 5.56mm it will handle both that and .223. If it is marked .223 then do not put 5.56mm. through it.

5.56mm. operates at a slightly higher pressure than .223 and it is generally considered bad karma to run 5.56mm. though guns with .223 chambers.


As for flat top real estate, that depends on the gun. In september I bought a Colt M4A1 at Wal Mart; when looking through their selection there was one Colt that had a continuous rail along the top which would have offered as much space as possible. My needs being different, I chose another but if you could find that type it's as good as they get. Sorry I do not recall the model ### but they are out there and I'm sure Colt is not the only maker that sells guns like that.

 

[Onewolf]

5.56 vs 7.62 (223 vs 308) -- What do you plan to do with the rifle? Unless you _need_ 7.62 I would go with a 5.56.

5.56/223 costs a lot less to shoot.

AR-15/5.56 rifles are much more 'standard' in terms of mixing/matching components. With the AR-10/308 rifles the uppers/lowers are not usually compatible across different manufacturers.

 

[OpticsPlanet]

You can't go wrong with an AR-10.

Do you want something exotic?

Check out the Robinson Arms XCR-M:

http://xcr.robarm.com/xcrm.php

Tim G.

 

[Ar180shooter]

You can't go wrong with an AR-10.

Do you want something exotic?

Check out the Robinson Arms XCR-M:

http://xcr.robarm.com/xcrm.php

Tim G.

One thing that's also neat about the XCR is the stock folds and collapses, which is something most AR pattern rifles can't do.

 

[jason41987]

you said you had issues with an AR15.. AR10s arent much different and will still have a lot of the same flaws..

M1As are nice, but very expensive, not just in initial prices.. but price out the same style of "evil black" stock for the SKS and youll find anything for the M1A is about 4x more expensive

i really like HK91s and the PTR91s, but if you intend to reload these can cause issues due to fluted chambers as theyre a delayed blowback

FAL is PROBABLY the way id go if i wanted an "evil black rifle" of a larger caliber,

or if you know how to do the work, convert a saiga .308 into an actual AK platform.. maybe add a side folding trunnion and stock if thats what you want, or an ace modular rear trunnion which would allow you to add a left or right side folding adapter WITH an AR-15 type buffer tube to mount AR-15 stocks.. but the level of work needed to do it right is too much for most people..

so my suggestion would be an FAL.. and few guns ever made are more battle proven than that

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3413/3228999915_8bbb20dd49_z.jpg

 

[cmhellie]

I've read up on the FN FAL over the last few days. I've seen them at gun shops before and more or less passed them over. I do that also to the AK-47s. I can't really explain why I don't give those platforms the time of day, BUT in reading over the last few days on the web, it seems that the FN will suit my needs. It gets a little confusing for me, though, because there are so many producers of that platform.

Which producer is the best from this short list
Century
Imbel
DS Arms

If there are other better than the above, I would appreciate that input, too.

I found a really cool and partially tricked out DS Arms with a stainless receiver, scope rail and bipod for $1900.00. Too much?

Thanks again for thoughts and responses. I'm really excited about this next purchase.

 

[jason41987]

no matter what i do, i have a feeling i will never escape the AK platform, i know too much about it, im most comfortable with it and im the most familiar with it, so even if the FAL may have some features better on paper.. if it was me id probably end up with a saiga 308 converted one added benefit i forgot to mention is that AK design as well as the AR design (AR15/AR10) as well as the HK rifles (HK91/HK93) all offer different platforms of various sizes..

so if you wanted a long range 308, a shorter range .223, and a pistol carbine you could go AR, AK, or HK and only have to learn the ins and outs of just one platform, one design and thats something you cant do with FALs and not M1s either.. atleast not unless you consider the mini-14 and M1 carbine as part of that group

 

[DeMilled]

If you want to go the FAL route I suggest you look for a parts kit without a barrel, order an aftermarket barrel that is a heavy profile, buy an Israeli Heavy Barrel gas block, order either a DSA, or Dan Coonan receiver and send it all off to Arizona Response Systems.

You'll have the FAL reliability, high quality Heavy Barrel, ability to scope with modern optics, folding stock option and even after paying the gun smith it would still come in less than the average FAL for sale on GunBroker.

E-mail Arizona Response Systems with what I outlined and see what they say.

 

[Infidel4life11]

If you have to have a 308 http://www.cmmginc.com/category_s/1517.htm

Personally I'd do a 300blk (Blackout) if you just want the bigger bullet. http://www.advanced-armament.com/MPW_p_628.html

I don't have a use for an AR10 outside of shooting longer distances. If I'm doing that then I'm spending a dollar a round or more shooting quality ammo. 223/556 really takes care of all my needs. Bravo Company USA, Palmetto State Armory, daniel defense, Noveske all make outstanding rifles. Most of the time I building an AR for someone on the cheap you can catch great deals on PSA and put together and entire rifle for under $800.

 

[DeMilled]

Which producer is the best from this short list
Century
Imbel
DS Arms

Imbel
DS Arms
Century

You are really going to be way ahead of the ball game to send a quality receiver and kit to a reputable gun smith, you'll probably save yourself a few bucks too.

Ya know, they really are not hard to build yourself.
I've built five of them and it's not rocket surgery at all.

There are guys who will let you rent, or maybe borrow, the receiver wrench and barrel vise if you introduce yourself over on thefalfiles.com.

Keep doing your research with folks that build these rifles and you'll see what's what and decide if you want to build, or buy.

I wish you the best!