hawg
Member
To me the dark side is black powder.
Going to the dark side: First black gun - what to do?
- Thread starter JumboJVT
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adcoch1
Member
An AR-15 is still a better system than a mini 14. And I really like mini's. Parts are EVERYWHERE for ar pattern rifles, and cost half of what mini stuff costs. And mags. Just shop for a minute and my comment will make itself. I run 10 round mags in my lightweight AR, and it is a pleasure to use without the larger mag hanging out. Same with the mini, a smaller mag doesn't diminish the usefulness of the rifle.
I recommend either a PSA or aero machine assembled upper, 18", mid length gas, easy to find. And a matching lower. Aero will probably be easier to resell if you have to. I have a lot of PSA stuff, but the aero m4e1 stuff is nicer. And either lower can have a decent trigger dropped in.
I recommend either a PSA or aero machine assembled upper, 18", mid length gas, easy to find. And a matching lower. Aero will probably be easier to resell if you have to. I have a lot of PSA stuff, but the aero m4e1 stuff is nicer. And either lower can have a decent trigger dropped in.
CapnMac
Member
We live in fascinating times. Especially in the firearms community. Doubly so in the AR community. There's not a lot of difference between pieces-parts, and all-assembled-in-the-box. Other than the price tag, and the trademark. Ok, so, some of the makers pay higher wages to the people assembling the product (like Colt, Wyndham, et al), and that's reflected in the price. But, the parts are not all that much different (and might be the same) as in a lower-price example.
So, the only real distinction is price (and availability).
There are those who can make a cogent argument that spending less on the rifle allows for more budget for sights, mags, ammo, etc.
So, the only real distinction is price (and availability).
There are those who can make a cogent argument that spending less on the rifle allows for more budget for sights, mags, ammo, etc.
Thanks for the input. Not many resources around here that have your experience. I thought I might stay at 16" in case I want to add a suppressor, to limit the OAL. I guess 2" isn't a big deal. 4 would be I think.
Already there then.
That would be the "Holy Black".......... Which reminds me, I need to refill my powder horn.
Varminterror
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- 14,963
I forgot to mention - get a 1:8” or 1:7” twist barrel (added to my original post). If you’re going 16”, get 1:7” to give you more options.
Gas length, balance, and handling, and action cycling/recoil impulse are reasons why I suggest 18”-20” over 16” carbines. 16’s just don’t ride as steady when firing from supports, especially when coupled with short carbine length gas systems. Shorter barrels simply push you farther towards one end of the spectrum of use opportunities - they’re slower and less stable, so the focus shifts more towards shorter ranges and larger target opportunities. That’s fine if it’s aligned with your priorities for the rifle.
Total length with a can isn’t so different in handling between 16-18, or really even 20”. You’re putting 3/4-1lb+ out on the end of the lever arm, so the balance shifts considerably, and torque on target with it.
Naturally, one option with AR’s is to have multiple uppers. I’ve built a lot of “multi-upper” AR’s for customers over the years, pretty commonly combining a short, light-ish upper with a longer, heavier upper, often in stuff like 6.5 Grendel to gain even greater reach. But this is obviously not a “generalist” approach, but rather acknowledgement of duality of specialties.
Thanks again VT. If only I had an honest priority for the gun. Right now its pretty much just to have one that works all the time, every time...I guess. Any varmint use around here would most likely be limited to 150-200 yds between topography and vegetation, so my inclination is to lean toward the short and quick for home defense and a truck gun. I like the multi-upper idea assuming AR's are something I can embrace. And the Grendel is something I've been eyeing for years. So, this is how it starts...
InTheSwamp
Member
Welcome to the dark side!
PSA and Aero are great. Once you built your first upper, or rifle, you'll want to start another one
PSA and Aero are great. Once you built your first upper, or rifle, you'll want to start another one
FL-NC
Member
Don't overlook the offerings by PSA. And triggers by Larue. They aren't that hard to install- a youtube video, or you could probably get a "gun friend" to do it, or someone cheap at a friendly LGS.
redneck2
Member
I’ve only built one upper, but personally I thought it was quite a bit easier than building a lower. Pop in the barrel, screw on and tighten the nut, slide the gas tube in place, screw on the fore end. Took me maybe ten minutes tops, but I was at a LGS that assembled a lot of AR’s so everything was in place.
I’ve got a maybe 30 Y.O. Varminter that has a Wilson air gauged match barrel that is amazingly accurate. I put an 18” one on my newest AR. It is light, handy. Combination house gun and varmint getter. Guys get all wrapped around the axle about 2” of barrel length. Meh....
I’d suggest you go back and read Varminterror’s post #25. It is exactly what I did. Not every AR has to be built to do a 30 round mag dump by wanna be operators
I’ve got a maybe 30 Y.O. Varminter that has a Wilson air gauged match barrel that is amazingly accurate. I put an 18” one on my newest AR. It is light, handy. Combination house gun and varmint getter. Guys get all wrapped around the axle about 2” of barrel length. Meh....
I’d suggest you go back and read Varminterror’s post #25. It is exactly what I did. Not every AR has to be built to do a 30 round mag dump by wanna be operators
I've replied to VT's post #25 with thanks. Means I read it
But I still reserve the right to screwup my purchase as I see fit. That is truly the American way! And who said anything about 30 rnd mag dumps?Ignition Override
Member
Black or dark green furniture.
Just a crazy idea here, which probably doesn't fit the OP's planned uses. And it's in the .308 chambering.
If you Don't Need good ergos, and can employ iron sights with only a few settings, it might be worth considering.
A number of typical models have factory-welded rails, which allow much easier mounting of scopes than the "Classic GI" model seen in these videos. These need pricey claw mounts, plus a cheek riser.
Each of my PTR-91s has used 700-800 rounds. Fun is my only priority, as if I were only to have a few months left in this life.
(262) PTR 91 Battle rifle, H&K G3 clone - YouTube
(262) G3 - HK91 - PTR91 to 500yds: Practical Accuracy - YouTube Caution: the first part has some Violence (!) from the drive-in movie scene in "Heat". Val Kilmer at 2:03, 2:09, 2:26 uses the original HK-91. The PTR-91 is a clone, which first used German HK tooling from Portugal, then CNC. The more recent production mag releases are typical 'paddles'.
Just a crazy idea here, which probably doesn't fit the OP's planned uses. And it's in the .308 chambering.
If you Don't Need good ergos, and can employ iron sights with only a few settings, it might be worth considering.
A number of typical models have factory-welded rails, which allow much easier mounting of scopes than the "Classic GI" model seen in these videos. These need pricey claw mounts, plus a cheek riser.
Each of my PTR-91s has used 700-800 rounds. Fun is my only priority, as if I were only to have a few months left in this life.
(262) PTR 91 Battle rifle, H&K G3 clone - YouTube
(262) G3 - HK91 - PTR91 to 500yds: Practical Accuracy - YouTube Caution: the first part has some Violence (!) from the drive-in movie scene in "Heat". Val Kilmer at 2:03, 2:09, 2:26 uses the original HK-91. The PTR-91 is a clone, which first used German HK tooling from Portugal, then CNC. The more recent production mag releases are typical 'paddles'.
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mgmorden
Member
For a first its hard to beat an AR. Ubiquitous, cheap, reliable - just overall a great design.
Once you have an AR or two if you want I'd look at something different. EG, my next EBR will likely be a Springfield Hellion.
Once you have an AR or two if you want I'd look at something different. EG, my next EBR will likely be a Springfield Hellion.
Omaha-BeenGlockin
Member
No real AR fan here either, yet somehow, I now own 4 of the darn things-----they are sterile and lifeless to me but there's no denying the utility of them.
silicosys4
Member
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- Jun 29, 2012
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- 3,692
I'd build a rifle because its too easy to get everything exactly how you want it for a better price than compromising on an off the shelf rifle or having an off the shelf rifle customized. You can save where more money doesn't get you much more utility, like in the upper and lower receivers, and spend where it does, like the LPK, the bolt/carrier, and the barrel. When I say "build" I mean 1/2 hour of light assembly work on the lower.
I'd start with this.
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar-15-blem-stealth-stripped-lower-receiver.html
I'd put this into it
https://danieldefense.com/lower-receiver-parts-kit-semi-auto.html
Stick this stock/tube/buffer/spring kit behind it
https://www.vltor.com/shop/ar/stocks/imod-improved-modular-stock/
Then stick this on top of it. It doesn't get much better for a general purpose utility rifle than a cold hammer forged chrome lined barrel by FN..
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...htweight-m-lok-upper-no-bcg-ch-516444448.html
Slap these this into it:
https://palmettostatearmory.com/pal...remium-full-auto-bolt-carrier-group-8779.html
https://palmettostatearmory.com/strike-industries-charging-handle-w-extended-latch-si-arch-el.html
$900 or so total, call it $1k total if you want to go with a BCM bolt and carrier.
Add your optic of choice.
Thats essentially the rifle I built with a few minor differences, and it has worked very well for me.
You can research and fiddle with different combinations to suit your liking but IMO something similar to the listed combo saves where you can save while still using all premium components internally. You end up with a higher quality rifle than anything I've seen off the shelf in that price range. I have another AR I spent double your budget building and didn't end up with anything fundamentally better in that gun than the one I just described. It's just got a bunch of expensive logos etched onto everything.
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CapnMac
Member
Oh, and as it's germane here, KE is running a special on lowers right now.
Brownell's was/is running deals on uppers, but they only last as long as the stock does, so things can be out-of-stock with little warning.
Brownell's was/is running deals on uppers, but they only last as long as the stock does, so things can be out-of-stock with little warning.
Ignition Override
Member
My products are more reliable when Not produced for the Bottom Retail dollar.
Thats why i avoid most semi-autos designed by Century. Quality is seldom a priority.
Thats why i avoid most semi-autos designed by Century. Quality is seldom a priority.
Decision made, right or wrong. Aero complete upper (18") and lower, BCG and CH. Between the 20% off sale they've got going and the 10% off first-time orders, $780 + VT tax (6%) and free shipping. Price and quality works for me. Now we'll see if I really want an AR.
adcoch1
Member
Well, if you don't like that setup the AR-15 probably isn't for you.
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