Golden Sabre serious lack of quality control Updated!

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Tech Ninja

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Notice anything odd here?

attachment.php


Yep, that's a .357 cartridge loaded with .38 Special brass. And no I didn't take it out of the .38 Special box. It came out of the .357 box. And I bet you could load it into a .38 Special revolver and blow it up. I've never been impressed with their ammo but this is ridiculous.

I guess you could argue that it's really just a .38 Special that got put into a .357 box, but it's longer than the .38 Specials and I would assume it's loaded to .357 specs.

I'm not going to contact Remington about getting it replaced or anything. I just not going to buy anymore of their ammo.

Update:

I pulled one of each round:

.357 = 7.3 grains
mystery = 5.9 grains
.38 = 5.6 grains

The mystery round was head stamped .38 +P.

I not sure what that means but the mystery round is no longer around.:)
 

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And I bet you could load it into a .38 Special revolver and blow it up.
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I'd be pretty shocked if the bullet made it past the forcing cone on a .38 spec, and lined up to be fired, bit anything is possible.

Looks like they got some brass mixed up. Contact them and see what they say.
 
At the very least you should let them know so's they can look into it. It's highly likely that it was a one-off situation, but you never know.

Edited to add: Or I could just say "do what Sam Cade said while I was typing this up."
 
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I guess you could argue that it's really just a .38 Special that got put into a .357 box
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I would say that's the most likely possibility, don't get me wrong I wouldn't risk it.
 
Or, some yahoo pulled one out of each box to compare the two and put 'em back in the wrong box. Happened more than once when I worked in gunstores. Still, I'd contact Remington, just to be safe, and alert them to a problem.
 
A potent reminder that you should visually inspect every round that you load.

I learned when my Sig had a failure to chamber incident. Pulled the round and discovered the casing was egg shaped instead of round!

All kinds of mistakes get past qc when your punching out millions of pieces at an extremely rapid rate.
 
Yet people will still claim that factory-made ammo is always better and safer than handloads. Don't you DARE to carry handloads in your CCW weapon!
 
"Or, some yahoo pulled one out of each box to compare the two and put 'em back in the wrong box."

Naw, it was loaded to .357 LOA.

I'm not positive yet, but I think I may have loaded a .380 in my Kahr CW-9 (9mm) and it fired sort of normally.

These were from a commercial reloader whose quality I have been pleased with in the past.

Didn't notice anything until I picked up my brass and there was a .380 case with nobody else around. Needs further investigation to see if indeed a .380 can be fed and fired in that gun, and inspection of other ammo in the same box. Just haven't got around to it yet, and haven't been to the range since then to actually test it out.
 
What's the case headstamp say? If you're ambitious pull one of each and compare charge weights. Might give some idea. Thanks for posting this. It could prevent a bad foul-up.
 
Let Remington know about it. They may decide they had a problem with one or more production lots, or, it may have been one of those seldom occurring glitches when automated equipment churns out ammo 24-hours a day.

I've had a few improperly/overly long trimmed cases in LE contract ammo runs from 2 different major ammo companies over the years, and I was called about a couple of others that were encountered when I wasn't at the range.

In those different instances the improperly trimmed cases weren't easily seen by the naked eye at casual glance (looking at the rounds in the boxes, or as being handled and loaded into mags), but when the slightly-too-long trimmed cases prevented the pistols from going into battery, and I suspected the problem, it was easy enough to see when comparing them to other rounds.

More often it's been mangled case mouths or bullets, badly dented cases (couldn't chamber a .38 Spl once due to a badly dented case that was just on the wrong side to see as handling the loose rounds), inert/bad primers, short loads (low powder), no flash holes, etc.

When you're talking about those experiences over the course of seeing many, many tens of thousands of rounds and pallet loads of duty ammo, though, it doesn't sound so bad (or as likely to happen to any one person).

2 of those overly long .40 rounds I tried to use came from a single 50-rd box of duty ammo, though. The rest of the case was fine. I remember at the time that I had both those rounds fail-to-fully-chamber when I was shooting on the range, I happened to read a gun magazine article where the author had encountered the same thing with a different brand of premium ammo, in .45 ACP, and chuckled about the coincidence. What are the chances, right?

Seeing these sort of things infrequently happen with different brands of ammo is probably why some LE contracts include language stating a maximum number of QC issues that could occur that would allow the return of a case/shipment of ammo for replacement.

These sort of things may not often make the news for private/commercial customers to learn about them, but they happen in LE/Gov circles often enough so that it's not exactly shocking when it happens. Doesn't mean they may not be potentially dangerous or capable of causing injury to the shooter or damage to the equipment (gun) ... but it's not like we're talking about a situation where each and every round is lovingly hand-crafted and inspected by a craftsman.

Automated equipment that churns out maybe a million rounds over a 24-hour period can have an occasional hiccup.

I'd not be surprised if the company offers to replace the box of ammo for your trouble, and tells you how to return it (or just dispose of it).
 
Just out of curiosity if it is a 38 special case loaded to .357 "power" would their be any safety hazards shooting it out of a .357 gun?
 
vamo said:
Just out of curiosity if it is a 38 special case loaded to .357 "power" would their be any safety hazards shooting it out of a .357 gun?
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Pressure curve could go exponential in the reduced case capacity.
 
vamo said:
Just out of curiosity if it is a 38 special case loaded to .357 "power" would their be any safety hazards shooting it out of a .357 gun?
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Not really, although it would generate more pressure out of the smaller case. I would think it would be similar to a .357 +P (if there even is such a thing). That said, I still wouldn't shoot it.
 
Vamo; If the 38 special is loaded to 38 overall length, yeah. Reduced case capacity = higher pressure.
 
I figured the headspace might change things, but I don't handload so wasn't sure.
 
It does change it, but is it safe? I certainly can't answer the question and as I said, I also wouldn't risk it.
 
OP says it's longer than the .38. It looks shorter than the .357 to me, but I can't really be sure from the photo -- is it? If it's the same OAL, it ought to be the same pressure.
 
Length of cartridges:

.357 = 1.562

mystery load = 1.540

.38 = 1.529

And no, I am not going to shoot it.
 
You owe it to the guy that doesn't see it, loads it, and gets injured. Contact Remington and let them know!
 
Tech Ninja said:
I'm not going to contact Remington about getting it replaced or anything. I just not going to buy anymore of their ammo.
Click to expand...

Then you shouldn't buy any factory ammunition from the major manufactures since they all make mistakes. Did you ask yourself why the charge weight was much less? It was possibly a .38 Spl from the set up for a run for .38 Spl that ended up in a buggy of .357 Mag. It should have been caught at packing but there's a lot of pressure to get product out. This happens when you make millions of rounds a day.
 
Posting about the situation on an internet forum without contacting the manufacturer really does none of us in the firearms community any favors.

In my experience, the ammunition manufacturers will certainly listen to valid complaints about their products from the consumer (and end-users). The major brands have been fairly good about recalling suspect lots.

I understand that there are those out there who do not inspect factory ammo prior to loading and shooting, but I believe one's responsibility to the firearms community goes a bit beyond just posting a photo on the internet. Call Remington. Please.

(Allegedly, most of you contact the manufacturer of your firearms if you detect problems -- why would someone not call the manufacturer of the ammo?)
 
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