Ruger Police Service Six, .38 SPL- loading up 38/44 spec. loads

[Palladan44]

Disclaimer- DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. This is for informational purposes only.
Do not fire 38/44 load specifications unless the gun is labeled 357 magnum. This 38/44 load could destroy certain revolvers designed for the 38 special only.
Have a 1980s Ruger Police Service Six, however chambered in .38 special only. From all of my research, the only difference is the depth of boring between this gun and his 357 magnum brothers of the same make and model.
With this knowlege, ive determined that this will handle .38 loads loaded up to almost 357 pressures. (Exceeds .38+p by quite a bit)
The name of this package is called 38/44.
Elmer Kieth utilized this as a stepping stone to invent the 357 magnum from the 38 special.

Using a 38 special case, i am able to work up to a full case of 2400 powder (is around 12 grains i believe) followed by a hard cast 158 grain LSWC.

I believe the true "Kieth load" was a 38 special case, with around 14 grains of 2400, with the 158grain LSWC crimped in the rear grease groove. This i am not going to do, but the length of the cylinder in this 357 modified by ruger to be a 38, will allow for that to occur. Its a 4" gun, and recoil and boom is hot enough with 12 grain standard seated loads.

Disclaimer- DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. This is for informational purposes only.
Do not fire 38/44 load specifications unless the gun is labeled 357 magnum. This 38/44 load could destroy certain revolvers designed for the 38 special only. The only reason i attempted is the rare case of having a platform that was designed for 357 magnum, and was made as .38 special only by the manufacturer for some reason. If you do manufacture 38/44 loads, make certain you keep separated from your standard 38 special loads so that they are never fired in a 38 only by you or anyone who may come across the ammo in the future.

I would expect accidentally using these in a model 60, 36 or similar "ultra light" or airweight .38 could mean trouble in a few possible ways.

 

[RKRCPA]

The Oct/Nov 2016 issue of Handloader Magazine has a good article about heavy 38 special and 38/44 loads.Well worth reading for anyone looking to load heavy.

 

[Ru4real]

Have a 1980s Ruger Police Service Six, however chambered in .38 special only. From all of my research, the only difference is the depth of boring between this gun and his 357 magnum brothers of the same make and model.
With this knowlege, ive determined that this will handle .38 loads loaded up to almost 357 pressures. (Exceeds .38+p by quite a bit)
The name of this package is called 38/44.
Elmer Kieth utilized this as a stepping stone to invent the 357 magnum from the 38 special.

Using a 38 special case, i am able to work up to a full case of 2400 powder (is around 12 grains i believe) followed by a hard cast 158 grain LSWC.

I believe the true "Kieth load" was a 38 special case, with around 14 grains of 2400, with the 158grain LSWC crimped in the rear grease groove. This i am not going to do, but the length of the cylinder in this 357 modified by ruger to be a 38, will allow for that to occur. Its a 4" gun, and recoil and boom is hot enough with 12 grain standard seated loads.

Disclaimer- DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. This is for informational purposes only.
Do not fire 38/44 load specifications unless the gun is labeled 357 magnum. This 38/44 load could destroy certain revolvers designed for the 38 special only. The only reason i attempted is the rare case of having a platform that was designed for 357 magnum, and was made as .38 special only by the manufacturer for some reason. If you do manufacture 38/44 loads, make certain you keep separated from your standard 38 special loads so that they are never fired in a 38 only by you or anyone who may come across the ammo in the future.

I would expect accidentally using these in a model 60, 36 or similar "ultra light" or airweight .38 could mean trouble in a few possible ways.

Seems legit. Without experimentation, I probably would have lost interest in handloading years ago. I do similar things with 38.

 

[Palladan44]

Ive even seen evidence that a Ruger Security Six or Service/speed six crane/cylinder assy. will drop into this frame and then only the rollmark on the barrel saying ".38 special cal." would differentiate this gun from the 357 calibers. Really a weird reason Ruger chambered these in .38 only. as the Police/Security/Speed Rugers were designed on the 357.
Its stamped CCH meaning Cook County Hospital. It was a security gun and maybe someone deemed 357 magnum to be excessive or un necessary. Im not sure.

 

[Jim Watson]

I agree that the Ruger is strong enough to take any .38 Special load.

But you have funny ideas about the .38-44 and Elmer Keith.
The .38-44 was a specific factory load, a 158 gr lead roundnose about 1100 fps.
Mr Keith had his own ideas based on his own design of semiwadcutter which he loaded with a heavy powder charge and crimped properly.
The .357 Magnum reduced interest in heavy .38s and Mr Keith preferred bigger calibers anyhow, concentrating on .44 Special.

Skeeter Skelton revived the concept with the Thompson design bullet, a semiwadcutter with gas check and two crimp grooves. He crimped in the bottom groove for more powder space in heavy .38 loads, in the upper groove for standard loads and for use in Magnum cases.

 

[Walkalong]

IMHO: Just don’t do it, plenty of small light .357 Mag revolvers out there.

Y’all be careful out there

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Palladan44: post #4: "... Really a weird reason Ruger chambered these in .38 only. ...

What I read "back in the day" when it was released was that many urban police departments would not issue "magnums" to city officers because of public relations: too much gun for the city streets. So Ruger made the Service Six (.38 Spl only) usually with fixed sights for such departments.

I noticed a mindset back in 1981 when I bought my first Security Six that the Ruger Security Six (.357 Mag/.38 Spl) with adjustable sights was considered a highway patrolman's sidearm for officers who might need to engage desperados inside cars at long range, not a sidearm for city police. I saw it as a .38 Spl revolver standard equiped with the features considered extra in a target revolver (heavier frame and barrel, adjustable sights, substantial grips) with the added ability to shoot .357 and .38 +P.

 

[Palladan44]

Palladan44: post #4: "... Really a weird reason Ruger chambered these in .38 only. ...

What I read "back in the day" when it was released was that many urban police departments would not issue "magnums" to city officers because of public relations: too much gun for the city streets. So Ruger made the Service Six (.38 Spl only) usually with fixed sights for such departments.

I noticed a mindset back in 1981 when I bought my first Security Six that the Ruger Security Six (.357 Mag/.38 Spl) with adjustable sights was considered a highway patrolman's sidearm for officers who might need to engage desperados inside cars at long range, not a sidearm for city police. I saw it as a .38 Spl revolver standard equiped with the features considered extra in a target revolver (heavier frame and barrel, adjustable sights, substantial grips) with the added ability to shoot .357 and .38 +P.

This makes perfect sense to me

 

[RKRCPA]

I agree that the Ruger is strong enough to take any .38 Special load.

But you have funny ideas about the .38-44 and Elmer Keith.
The .38-44 was a specific factory load, a 158 gr lead roundnose about 1100 fps.
Mr Keith had his own ideas based on his own design of semiwadcutter which he loaded with a heavy powder charge and crimped properly.
The .357 Magnum reduced interest in heavy .38s and Mr Keith preferred bigger calibers anyhow, concentrating on .44 Special.

Skeeter Skelton revived the concept with the Thompson design bullet, a semiwadcutter with gas check and two crimp grooves. He crimped in the bottom groove for more powder space in heavy .38 loads, in the upper groove for standard loads and for use in Magnum cases.

Elmer's "heavy" load is reported to be a 173gr. SWC pushed to 1400fps. Skeeter's load is pushing a 160gr. SWC @ 1300fps.

Those loads will get your attention for sure.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

"IMHO: Just don’t do it, plenty of small light .357 Mag revolvers out there."

For most police service revolvers in .38 Spl, I would say No to .38/44 loads myself. But. The .38 Spl Ruger Service Six is actually a .357 Mag Ruger Security Six with a magnum length cylinder short chambered for .38 Spl only. (I have handled a modern small light .357 Mag revolver and I cringe at the thought of shooting .357, .38 +P, or .38/44 in one of those.)

I would warn the opening poster to keep the .38/44 loads in clearly marked boxes labeled ".38/44 loads Not .38 spl revolver" and NEVER let them get mixed up.

 

[Palladan44]

"IMHO: Just don’t do it, plenty of small light .357 Mag revolvers out there."

For most police service revolvers in .38 Spl, I would say No to .38/44 loads myself. But. The .38 Spl Ruger Service Six is actually a .357 Mag Ruger Security Six with a magnum length cylinder short chambered for .38 Spl only. (I have handled a modern small light .357 Mag revolver and I cringe at the thought of shooting .357, .38 +P, or .38/44 in one of those.)

I would warn the opening poster to keep the .38/44 loads in clearly marked boxes labeled ".38/44 loads Not .38 spl revolver" and NEVER let them get mixed up.

All of my thoughts exactly.

 

[AJC1]

This is where hand loads and reloads differ imo. Sami spec and manuals are setup to support reloading to spec and a reasonable amount of included safety. Hand loaders spend a lot of time off the reservation and should have a very strong knowledge of the arms they are using and the loads they are modifying. Telling a hand loader to be safe and isolate ammo is redundant, but reoccurring. Competition shooters modify the spec to their application and having great notes is the best one can reasonably be.

 

[mdi]

I don't pay any attention to "Celebrity Loads" and if I experiment I'll start with published data. I have used 357 Magnum data in 38 Special brass, being careful to remember the 38 has less capacity than a 357. My heaviest load was a Blue Dot 357 Magnum charge w/158 gr SWC, but in a 357 Magnum handgun. I soon tired of the experiment as for all intents and purposes my 38 Special +P loads were enough...

Also agree with Walkalong, if you want heavy, extra powerful shooting, go to the correct caliber/gun combination...

 

[PapaG]

Skeeter had nothing to do with developing the 38/44 or 357. Unless he was in diapers. he did a lot of loading and shooting for and with it. Phil Sharpe was involved in the development. IIRC, the original factory 357 used a Sharpe swc. Keith played with everything and designed bullets that were much better than Sharpes. Thompson did also. 38/44 was designed for the New Service, SAA, and other large framed revolvers. 357 was the child of it. By the way, the first 357s used large pistol primers. I don't believe Keith "invented" the 357. He did play a big part in the development of the 44 mag.

 

[PapaG]

Lots of 357 revolvers were made in 38 special for city police departments. I recently bought a GP100 marked 38 special.
I did shoot a few 38/44 loads from it.

 

[Walkalong]

I would warn the opening poster to keep the .38/44 loads in clearly marked boxes labeled ".38/44 loads Not .38 spl revolver" and NEVER let them get mixed up

Agree emphatically.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Let me offer a suggestion -- I powder coat my cast bullets. In .45, I powder coat some green, and load those to about 14.000 PSI, SAAMI standard, and use them in Colt SAA. I powder coat some yellow, and load them to 21,000 PSI and snoot them in my Colt New Service. And some I coat red, load them to 32,000 PSI and shoot them in my Ruger Blackhawk.

This way, I never worry about getting the wrong load into the wrong gun. If I was loading some .38 Specials to .38/44 levels, I'd use the same system.