Good/Bad Areas and What to Carry

[.308 Norma]

Ever since I started carrying a gun I have been looking for the perfect carry pistol.

That's part of the fun!
I'm 75 now, and over the years, I too have changed my mind a few times about what will be the "perfect" carry pistol. The fact is, I'm probably going to head into town later on today because a few days ago I actually held a little Kahr 9mm in my hand (for the first time in my life), dry fired it, and decided it would be "better" for concealed carry in my bible cover than the Springfield XDS 9mm I have been carrying in my bible cover for a few years. So, I'm going to put the Springfield on consignment and buy my first Kahr.
And no, I didn't get the idea of carrying a gun in my bible cover from Shawshank. I just figure that if the day comes when I need a gun in church, the one in the cover on my bible (which is sitting on my lap) might be easier to get to than the one I have tucked behind my right hip.
BTW, I've looked around, and I know that at least 25% of the people in our church are carrying on Sunday mornings. That's not saying much though - because there's only about 12 or 14 people in the congregation in our church on a good day.

 

[hk940]

The worst thing a Knight in the middle ages could say is "I am only going down to the corner. I don't need to put on my armor"

 

[Kleanbore]

I've been places where I'm ok carrying a .22 and places where that .22 was a third gun to a full-sized 9mm and 4" S&W M19.

Why do you think the places would make a difference?

 

[luzyfuerza]

Self defense is about a lot more than shooting, but once shooting becomes necessary, the defender should stive to be able to draw very quickly from a holster while moving off line, and hit two upper-chest-sized targets a few feet apart a total of, say, six times in less than three seconds within a range of three to five yards, and have some ammunition left in the gun.

For me, this is a good list of core defensive handgun skills. For completeness' sake, I only have two minor tweaks:

1) The draw from the holster should be from concealment, and
2) The firearm should be chambered in a service cartridge.

For more depth on the rationale behind these recommendations, I suggest reading chapter 12 of Tom Givens' excellent book "Concealed Carry Class, The ABCs of Self-Defense Tools and Tactics."

Amazon.com

 

[fastbolt]

...
It's about software, not hardware.

Indeed. While the ability to quickly, accurately and effectively physically run the hardware needs to occasionally and realistically be assessed, it's the software that may not be updated ... or may go out-of-date ... and which may also require some periodic reassessment.

From my own experience and perspective, since I'm still able to run my small, mid and full-size weapons within the same general envelope of speed, controllability and accuracy, the factors governing my daily retirement choices typically run more toward what matches my daily clothing choices (and comfort does factor in), and how many rounds can I put on-target before having to reload. It's that simple.

I've acquired my own sense of assessing potential threat environments and risks. both over the 34+ years of me having worn a badge of one sort or another, and having kept my finger on the pulse of current events viewed through the filter of not only having been a working cop, but a LE firearms instructor for a fair number of years (both before and post-retirement). I still chew the fat with active cops and working instructors, trying to keep abreast of the things they're dealing with and looking at them against the backdrop of my own time in harness.

Jugging? Well, unless someone is going to wait for me outside one of the supermarkets where I shop (which is the only place I get pocket cash added to my transaction), I doubt my once or twice a year pilgrimage to my credit union - which sits across the street from the county Hall of Justice, other county buildings and the SO headquarters for that county - is going to be more of a threat to me than it's been since I became a member back in '82.

Yes, Bad Things can happen anywhere. The world isn't a safe place, especially when you add the factor of Bad People who desire to do Bad Things to other people. That's the history of people, though, so it's not like it's that new.

I've come to draw my own line of being able to fire 5-6 rounds before having to reload. That's not that much less than the 7+1 rounds I was able to fire before reloading from my issued compact .45 I was carrying when I retired. I also started in the 6rd service revolver days, and then carried some assorted higher capacity duty pistols in the 'middle years' (8, 9, 12, 14 & 15rds), and then didn't lose any sleep when I carried that 7+1/.45 toward the end of my regular career.

Unless your employer (or a local law) controls your range of choices, I always thought folks ought to be able to choose for themselves. I never pushed my personal beliefs on anyone I served as a firearms instructor when it came to (mostly) LE and private persons (CCW). I was helping them with their skillset and mindset, not their gear choices, although I was constrained to remind the working guys & gals at my agency to stay within the prevailing policies governing such things, of course. I'd explain the reasons for mine, if they asked (and some always did), but I also took care to remind them that my choices may not necessarily meet the needs, as they saw them, of their lives and activities.

Freedom of choice is wonderful thing. It always comes the potential for possibly having to bear the consequences of those choices, though. TANSTAAFL.

 

[The Night Rider]

This Is Going To Be A Long Post.



First, my "load out" is dependent on what I'm doing.

With the obvious Caveat "Unless forbidden by law."


The items on the left are what I have with me anytime I'm out of the house in "real" clothes.


The items on the Right are what I have with me at the gym.


Mindset


I'm not looking for a religious debate but I believe we're living in "The End Times." This is relevant to me because The Bible says that people in "The End Times" will be lawless, brutal and despisers of good".


You know, the kind of people that would run over a retiree on a bicycle just for the hell of it and laugh when they found out he was dead.


Even when I was a security guard, I didn't have a "Duty to respond" but I had an obligation to act in the best interest of the property owner. I had more than one instance where I would ask somebody to simply leave the property and have them lose their minds and attempt to attack me.


If I have a criminal encounter today I go into it with the mindset that that's what I'm up against because nine times out of 10 that's what I'm up against.


Another thing that I learned as a Security Guard is that there are no good neighborhoods, at least not in Colorado Springs.


So as @CDW4ME so often says I don't carry a pocket pistol in a "good" neighborhood I also don't leave my house without a plan.


I avoid known trouble spots, that includes gas stations and convenience stores and Walmart after dark.

^This Is True^


You could be attacked by 97 ninjas armed with atomic bombs and screaming their intent to kill you and if you shoot one of them in self-defense somebody's going to sue you.


I haven't really had a criminal encounter since I retired but if I do my main goal is Deescalate, Evade and Escape.


I don't leave home without OC spray. I've had use for OC far more times than I've had use for a gun.


I'm not going to throw out my CV but I've been very blessed to have had a lot of quality training paid for by either my employer or my church.


I said all that to say that within reasonable limits and carries a long largest gun I can easily conceal. I limit myself to a Glock 19 rather than a Glock 17 or something similar because if I can only carry 15 rounds anyway why do I need the Glock 17?

I'm not sure why everything I wrote was underlined

 

[JR24]

Self defense is about a lot more than shooting, but once shooting becomes necessary, the defender should stive to be able to draw very quickly from a holster while moving off line, and hit two upper-chest-sized targets a few feet apart a total of, say, six times in less than three seconds within a range of three to five yards, and have some ammunition left in the gun.

Agree, I do a variation of this pretty often at the range. Number of rounds/targets/distance changes by my whim as I’m putting up targets.

Goal is to put all the rounds on target (usually 8” circles) as fast as I can with no misses.

As for “load out” as I age I’ve been getting more lazy, so to speak. I still prefer a belt gun, usually around Glock 19 size. Spare mag in my pocket with my wallet, keys, flashlight and a knife.

Far cry from 4 pockets full of stuff plus a few spare mags on the belt and all that.

Heck these days since I can’t carry even a knife at work (other than a leather man) my pistol and spare mag mostly stay in the car and my good knife hasn’t left my nightstand in weeks.

 

[LimaCharlie]

We live at the edge of a city with urban development to the north us and farms, ranches, and tree farms to our south. I am as likely to encounter a black bear or mountain lion as I am bad guys. A mountain lion killed some goats less than a mile south of our home.

My normal carry is a five-inch 1911 in either 45 ACP or 10mm with a spare magazine. Today, I am carrying a 4.25 inch Colt Python 357 magnum with two speed loaders.

Around the house while wearing swim trunks in the summer or sweatpants in the winter, I often pocket carry an NAA 22 magnum revolver or a Seecamp 380 since they don't pull my pants down. Other guns are available. While at the gym, I usually have a Sig P938 9mm in my cargo short's pocket.

My wife's family came to Oregon in 1847 on a wagon train and homesteaded in the Portland area. She still has elderly relatives living in Portland who we visit. We try to go around 10 am and get out of Portland by 2 pm. I usually carry my FNH FNX-45 Tactical or Glock G40 MOS 10mm with two spare fifteen round magazines.

If I am going to remote rural areas or the woods, I often carry a 44 magnum revolver with two spare speed loaders.

 

[luzyfuerza]

Just for fun, I went out to my range this afternoon and shot a few iterations of Kleanbore's self-defense standard.

At 5 yards, I drew from a concealed holster, and put three shots in the body of each of two Front Sight silhouette targets. Targets were about six feet apart. Took lateral steps while shooting.

Gun was my M&P9 compact EDC with iron sights. Holster was a Kydex IWB rig.

Results:

With concealment, average time for eight iterations was 3.07 seconds, with one miss in 48 total shots.
Without concealment, average time for eight iterations was 2.69 seconds, with no misses.

Obviously, I'm not lighting fast. But I pretty much met the three second goal.



Maybe I'll go out Monday and shoot the same exercise with a six-shot snubbie in .38 special. It'll be interesting to see what those results might be.

As asked in the OP, I wonder if this testing will tell me whether I should be as comfortable with a snubbie on my belt as I am with the M&P9 compact...

 

[herrwalther]

I don't decide my carry based on neighborhood, I decide based on my warddrobe. There are neighborhoods I visit where I would rather have an AR and a plate carrier. But, society considers that scary. So I go with a fullsize double stacked firearm, and a spare magazine under a loose shirt. Other days my warddrobe determines the best I can carry is a pocket 9mm.

 

[Joshua M. Smith]

Why do you think the places would make a difference?

For the same reason that in some places and circumstances I'd carry a trauma kit instead of a few bandaids.

A walk down to the corner store during the afternoon isn't as risky as a walk through the red light district at midnight.

 

[Kleanbore]

A walk down to the corner store during the afternoon isn't as risky as a walk through the red light district at midnight.

Joshua, you need to rethink that.

The expected likelihood of trouble should influence your decisions on where to go, but when the balloon goes up, how likely the occurrence had been thought will not define shat you need in terms of mindset, skillset, and t oolset.

That's a basic tenet of risk management.

 

[Rexster]

We live mid-way between two Jewish houses of worship, one 0.7 miles to the north, one 0.7 miles to the south. Many of my neighbors are Jewish. Though I live in a small city that is statistically “safe,” it is surrounded by the huge, sprawling Houston, and, to the west, outside our city, is a huge enclave with a significant Muslim population. My wife is actively campaigning for a city council candidate with a very Jewish name. So, like it or not, living in my neighborhood is now “Living In Interesting Times,” and, no, we are not going to be moving.

So, have I upped my carry equipment? Well, yes, I have. I would rather not elaborate further.

 

[luzyfuerza]

Maybe I'll go out Monday and shoot the same exercise with a six-shot snubbie in .38 special. It'll be interesting to see what those results might be.

As asked in the OP, I wonder if this testing will tell me whether I should be as comfortable with a snubbie on my belt as I am with the M&P9 compact...

Today, I shot this same drill with a six-shot .38 special snubbie (a bobbed S&W 64-6 2"). Same distance, same targets, same time of day, same concealment, same shooter. The only difference, other than gun and ammo, was that I shot the revolver from an OWB kydex holster. I don't own an IWB holster for this gun.

Regardless of the drill, I generally shoot the 2" 64-6 faster than any of the other snubbies that I own, including the 442 that I sometimes carry as a BUG. Also, the 5-shot 442 is a poor fit for a six-shot drill.


The results were indeed interesting.

I shot this exercise with the snubbie 10 times for a total of 60 rounds. My average time for these 10 drills was 3.70 seconds, with one miss outside the thoracic zone. As a reminder, my average time with the M&P9c was 3.07 seconds, with one miss out of 48 shots.

In general, I found that my times to first shot were about the same for the revolver and the M&P, while my splits, on average, were about 0.10 seconds slower with the revolver.

Previous testing has shown that, for me, regardless of the platform, drawing from a pocket holster (if the gun hand is NOT on the gun when the drill begins) and drawing from an ankle holster are both significantly slower than drawing from a strong-side position.

Again, there are lots of shooters faster with revolvers than me. The purpose of this exercise is to see whether I am faster with my autoloader or my snubbie revolver.


Things I learned:

1) The 2" snubbie was significantly slower than the autoloading M&P9c, for me, in this exercise. The reduction in speed was primarily caused by longer splits between shots.
2) Accuracy between the two platforms was similar.

There are those who claim that they shoot revolvers faster than autoloaders in self-defense-related drills. That's fine.

But I'm pretty sure that this is not true for me.

 

[herrwalther]

We live mid-way between two Jewish houses of worship, one 0.7 miles to the north, one 0.7 miles to the south. Many of my neighbors are Jewish. Though I live in a small city that is statistically “safe,” it is surrounded by the huge, sprawling Houston, and, to the west, outside our city, is a huge enclave with a significant Muslim population. My wife is actively campaigning for a city council candidate with a very Jewish name. So, like it or not, living in my neighborhood is now “Living In Interesting Times,” and, no, we are not going to be moving.

So, have I upped my carry equipment? Well, yes, I have. I would rather not elaborate further.

My household attended Jewish services just prior to Covid but have not returned for other reasons. The irony was not lost on the Rabbi at the time that I was carrying a Walther 9mm. The current Rabbi does not take community security seriously and has even gone as far as saying "armed Jews are not real Jews."