Good/Bad Areas and What to Carry

[jstert]

i really appreciate tallball’s well-reasoned and thoughtful posts here, which got me thinking…

my particular main location is just below the middle in middle class and so far luckily quite safe, but the future is opaque. the paradox of being in a safer locale is one cannot help but to lower one’s guard and carry a more casual ccw, while the predator is just as dangerous as in a dangerous locale. a rattlesnake’s venom doesn’t change between the desert and your backyard.

my ccw must be deeply concealed for social, not legal, reasons and thus whatever ccw i choose must be compact. regardless of where i may encounter a rattlesnake, my ccw is what it is. i am retired, socially-distanced by nature, home after dark, and simply have no need or desire to enter sketchy spots.

so my usual ccw here is small and snag-free: keltec p32 or s&w 642 j frame snubbie. so far my few service pistols only leave the safe for the shooting range. ive put enough rounds through both favorite ccws to confidently know shooting them, but i really need to focus more on drawing and then shooting. sadly one can only practice such at wide open, outdoors, shooting venues, which are few and far between these days.

 

[nettlle]

There is no perfect carry gun for everyone but after years I have found the perfect carry gun for me.

1) Must be accurate for me to shoot
2) Must be easy to carry
3) Must be reliable.

To get all of these features in one gun is a series of compromises.

1) My carry gun may not be the most accurate gun ever made on earth.
2) My carry gun may not be the easiest to carry
3) My carry gun (although very reliable) may not be the most reliable ever made.

Once I found my perfect carry gun I sure am not going to let the places I travel to change those choices. Why would I?

 

[The Night Rider]

I live within a half mile of one of the busiest intersections in Colorado Springs. EVERYONE in town goes through that intersection sooner or later.

This is relevant because the people who populate "Bad Neighborhoods" can move and they're not stupid. They know the good stuff is in the good neighborhoods.

So functionally, there are no "good neighborhoods"

Having said all that, I like keeping things simple. If I can conceal a Glock 19 that's what I carry. If I can't I carry a Glock 26.

I also practice what I've been trained on and what I've actually seen happen in real life.

Mindset
Skill Set
Tool Set

In. That. Order.

 

[Boom Vang]

Everything in an intelligent life consists of a considered judgment of risk, rewards and trade-offs. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous.

Who trailers a boat around every day in case the 1000 year flood hits while you are out and about? Who has life insurance, and who doesn't? Who replaces their roof every 10 years, regardless? Or packs a short M4 carbine and 3 spare mags in a backpack everywhere, just in case a muhajadeen squad hit the chinese restaurant you're eating at? The list goes on and on...

15-shot autoloader and 3 spares? Yes, back in my LE career. Now, unless it's TEOTWAWKI, not a chance. That's no longer my part of town. If it's yours, well, do what you gotta do! Funny how when I started in LE, 6 rounds in the revolver and 12 spare rounds was plenty. Retired, it's still plenty. Assuming you can shoot.

But as always, you do you.

 

[Charlie98]

It might be situational, but in my case moving to a "bad" area did not mean I needed to start carrying a larger, higher-capacity pistol and extra magazines. YMMV.

To be honest, if I was in the situation you were in, I might start carrying two pistols. You have that Kahr PM9, maybe grab something that's interchangeable... a CW9. The M will take the 1rd larger (or more) 7rd W magazine, they take the same holster, and have the same manual of arms. Just a thought.

 

[Tallball]

TY for all of the kind comments. If I'm out in the neighborhood, I carry a handgun, a knife, and pepper spray. The pepper spray is due to previous advice from board members. Thank you for that good advice. It has come in handy for aggressive stray dogs.

I have had to change my habits somewhat, learning to do what's necessary to be safe, paying attention to what the long-term residents do: lock everything all the time, have a large dog that barks, be extremely alert if anyone tries to get physically close to you, have a weapon on or near you that you're proficient with, don't go outside at night.

In my old neighborhood I could walk my dog at 3:00am or whenever if I had insomnia. He's a doberman/pit mix who weighs 100 pounds plus. No sane person wants to tangle with him. In this neighborhood it's NOT okay to walk him when it's dark outside. I did that twice, and both times dudes who were really wasted almost made a bad decision. Now we only walk in broad daylight. That's been the second biggest change; being way more aware of my surroundings has been the most important. I also keep a 12 gauge accessible and loaded in the house now.

 

[MikeInOr]

I have only carried a full sized pistol once, then decided "screw that"!

I carry small guns which is one of the reasons I always have a gun on me when I am out of the house. I will let the cops carry the full sized pistols, I will stick with my compacts, subcompacts and mouse guns.

I don't know if I can say that I shoot my subcompacts better than my full sized pistols but I shoot them plenty well enough to defend myself at any distance that makes sense to be shooting at some one in a self defense situation. I definitely agree with the OP that I can draw a smaller pistol quicker than a full sized pistol which means it will be on target quicker.

The CZ-75D compact was too big to carry so I gave it to me GF for home protection. The DB9 is my most carried gun. I don't carry my CM9 at all, I get the same fire power in a smaller package with the DB9. I wish I had purchased a CM40 instead of the CM9. The XDs in .45 acp is what I carry when I go to the big city. I like my LCP for when I go out for a quick errand and don't want to change my dress to accommodate a bigger gun. I used to carry my P32 everyday at work where flashing or printing wasn't an option.

Where I used to live many years ago a hospital worker on the early morning shift was jumped by two street scum walking from the parking lot to the hospital in the early morning. He was not able to get to his glock under his heavy winter coat but was able to get the the .22 in his coat pocket which stopped the attack. The one he hit in the thigh with the 22 went into the emergence room at the very same hospital where the cops arrested him. Of course he immediately gave the cops the name of his cohort after being arrested.

 

[shafter]

A person can live in a "bad" area their whole life with no problem and then go bowling and have someone walk in with a 308 battle rifle and open fire. A Glock 19 with a red dot gives me a far better chance than something so small it disappears in my pocket.

 

[FL-NC]

Its best to plan for a worst case scenario, within reason. You never know where your travels may unexpectedly take you. "Good" areas remain good until that one outlier incident happens, or you are "just passing through" a "not good" area, and you experience car trouble or even a wreck. Now you are stuck in that area. I normally carry a shield 9 on my body- a good 9mm that is easy to conceal here in Fl where "summer wear" is pretty much year-round wear. When I am going to/from the gym, that shield 9 is replaced by a LCP, because I am doing that trip wearing MMA shorts and a sleeveless T shirt usually- the LCP fits in the pockets on my shorts that is meant for a mouth guard. Each of my trucks has a Glock 19 loaded with extra mags in lockboxes, in case something makes me feel like I need to "upgrade" to something with more ammo on board- along with each truck having a 870 riot gun clone available for emergency use, secured out of sight.

 

[The Night Rider]

There's a poster here who goes by the name of GEM. He frequently says that all the posts stating that most Shooters will probably never need more than 10 rounds to defend themselves anyway will one day be used against us.

I don't think he's wrong but I can't ignore the fact that statistically it is true that the overwhelming majority of Citizen involved self-defense shootings are over in less than 10 rounds.

 

[Charlie98]

politicians are going to start quoting us when they advocate for their magazine bans.

That's a bit of a specious argument... politicians, and particularly the ones who are diametrically opposed to firearms holding ANY number of cartridges... will use whatever they can to argue their case, the list is nearly endless. We all can't walk around strapped with a G19 and a drum magazine just to keep antigunners from pointing fingers at us for round count... and at the end of the day, it works both directions.

 

[The Night Rider]

That's a bit of a specious argument... politicians, and particularly the ones who are diametrically opposed to firearms holding ANY number of cartridges... will use whatever they can to argue their case, the list is nearly endless. We all can't walk around strapped with a G19 and a drum magazine just to keep antigunners from pointing fingers at us for round count... and at the end of the day, it works both directions.

I mean, both points of view are accurate.

 

[fastbolt]

If I have to defend myself, where makes no difference, the goal of stopping threat(s) ASAP hopefully before they can inflict serious or lethal injury to me is the same everywhere.
Threats are not perceived as easier or harder to stop based on location.
...

This is one of the basic tenets to keep in mind.

Outside or inside the home. No matter where your home is located, or your travels outside your home. Doesn't mean some risk assessment based on known current events and conditions wouldn't still be handy, though.

Some folks may choose gear that isn't optimal to their needs in one set of circumstances or another, or which makes their lawful carrying more difficult, or makes their ability to deploy and use their handgun more difficult. Selection and acceptance of any compromises needs to be approached in a prudent, thoughtful manner. TANSTAAFL.

 

[fastbolt]

Person 1: In my nice mostly crime-free neighborhood I carry a little revolver or something. If I'm going somewhere sketchy, I carry a full-sized service pistol.

Person 2: I always carry what I'd want to have with me if something bad happened, so I always carry a full-sized service pistol.

This summer I moved from an upper middle-class neighborhood with no street crime to a working-class neighborhood where people get mugged/assaulted with some regularity.

The "what to carry in what kind of neighborhood" question became very relevant to me. Unless I run an errand in a nicer part of town, I'm pretty much always in a "bad" area with homeless guys wandering around, sketchy characters driving old vehicles around slowly to steal things off of porches, young hoodlum guys waking up at noon to walk over and get a 40 oz, etc.

I don't have to wonder how I'm most likely to be assaulted. One or two guys will try to quickly jump me, beat me, and take my possessions. I see them walking around every day. That's what they do when they're not busy stealing lawn mowers or looking for houses to break into or whatever.

So I carry what I would want to have with me if I get jumped. I want something that I can draw and use very fast if someone is right on me, like if they were in bushes or behind a car and jumped out at me.

I can draw a small semiauto or revolver much faster than a full-sized service pistol, so that's what I carry. It has to be carried where I can get to it quickly. That varies with the weather: an easy to reach shorts pocket, OWB under a t-shirt, coat pocket, etc. I prefer a revolver due contact shooting, not getting knocked out of battery, usefulness as a bludgeon, etc. Sometimes a semiauto is quicker, like an LCP in the breast pocket of a coat.

What about accuracy? I noticed something interesting about that on a recent range trip with a friend. We were shooting quickly at paper targets and steel targets at ranges of about 7-10 yards. We shot his LCR and my Taurus snub, his S&W EZ and my Springfield XDS, and his customized Ruger 85 (true story) and my 9mm 1911. He said out of the blue, "I'll be darned if I don't shoot your XDS just as well as my P85..." We started looking at the used targets more closely. We had been just as accurate with the smaller semiautos as the larger ones... and to our surprise, about the same with the snubs as well. Both of us shot every handgun into a roughly fist-sized group, with an occasional flier. We both tried the various handguns on the steel targets, too, and basically hit every time except for fliers. (Note: We're both in our 50's and have been shooting snub revolvers DA for decades.)

The handgun that I myself can carry the most easily and draw the quickest is a small revolver or small semiauto, carried as accessibly as possible. Apparently at SD ranges I shoot those about as well as I shoot anything else. So that's what I carry.

YMMV. Lots of people had decades and decades of training with a certain carry method and handgun type. Doubtless that's what works best for them.
...

Some good thoughts and introspection, OP.

Sometimes a little comparative live-fire can provide feedback which reinforces long-standing experience and opinions ... or allows someone to 'update' their opinions based upon re-examination of experience and consideration of new conditions.

Mindset and skillset, properly established & ingrained, ought to (hopefully) allow us to acclimate to changes that come along in our lives. Everything from a change of location, to increased 'probable' threats (meaning not just perceptions of 'possible' threats) .. as well as how our normal aging may need to be taken into consideration. Like, in other words.

 

[JR24]

I carry what I like and what I’ve been shooting most recently. I don’t like really small guns I can’t shoot well, so I never carry those.

So typically just going with what I like to shoot, I’m a “carry what you’d want in hand in a gunfight” kinda guy, but not really on purpose.

 

[wayneinFL]

"Plan for the worst" means worst of plausible scenarios, not off-the-wall SHTF, TEOTWAWKI, Walter Mitty fantasies.

Plausible scenarios like a guy with a rifle shooting up a Walmart, grocery store, bar, or bowling alley? I'm not going to go grocery shopping with a plate carrier and rifle, so I guess I'm not planning for the worst of plausible scenarios.

I'm carrying a pistol and compromising like everyone else is. If someone wants to compromise by carrying a full size pistol and 2 spare mags, or compromise by carrying a compact pistol, I don't care. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.

 

[fastbolt]

The Art of Compromise regarding lawfully carrying a concealed weapon probably ought not consider the development and maintenance of skillset.

While choosing a larger handgun can provide some advantages for some folks, choosing bigger just to try and offset lack of attention and interest in developing and refining better skills may not work out as well as some might hope. Many of us have likely seen examples of that on the firing line at local ranges, in training classes or during quals.

If someone 'can fight' a smaller gun better than others can fight their larger guns, that may make the choice of a smaller gun for that person a reasonable (enough) choice. Draw the line for yourself and be prepared to shoulder the consequences should it ever become an unavoidable and necessary event.

This thread topic is timely, in a sense. In my retirement I've usually defaulted to more commonly than not carrying one of my J's or LCP's as retirement weapons. Yes, clothing choices and planned activities have been a factor in my choices. On the other hand, many years of having worn belt-scabbarded revolvers and pistols is still a habit that was ingrained over a few decades. Sometimes because of a shift in current events, and sometimes just because I may feel like it.

Bottom line, though, is that it's more than not one of my compact or subcompact options that gets the nod. I spent more than enough years carrying full-size weapons on and off-duty. The compact and subcompact choices can yield advantages - for me - without giving up virtually any of the practical speed and accuracy of the larger guns. Sometimes the cycling (slide travel distance) and more rearward-in-the-hand balance can even offer an advantage over a larger, similar model gun.

As the OP mentioned, it's not a rare thing for some folks who own and use different sized pistols and revolvers to experience a smaller gun being just as accurate as a larger one in practical shooting conditions, or even more so. Sure, smarter people than me have opined on the faster cycling and quicker lock-up sometimes being responsible for surprising accuracy someone can wring out of smaller gun, but I also feel it's the weighty/balance being positioned more rearward in the hand that can help contribute to achieving surprising accuracy out of the short guns.

Case in point ...

Today I was about to grab my squat and chunky-gripped G26 or G27 to belt on, when I decided to instead belt on my well-used CS9 (S&W 3rd gen 9mm, with a 3" barrel and 7rd mags). As much as I like my 3913 and 3913TSW, and really liked my issued 5903's and 6906's over the years, that stubby little CS9 felt like the engineers created it around my hand and shooting technique. It gives up nothing in practical accuracy at any range where I've used it, and the cycling is controlled and abrupt, putting the front sight back on target faster than my eyes can track. Seems quicker in that regard than my 3.5" single stack 9's or .40's, or my 3.75" single stack 4513TSW.

So, today, once again, my CS9 gets scabbarded in my oldest Hume H726 Semi-open Breakfront, which makes drawing and presentation quick, easier on the shoulder/elbow ... and faster. Faster used to be an important factor in my plainclothes years, which is why I owned different Hume H726's for various duty pistols I carried in that role. Also, while not a critical deal-breaker, the fact the CS9 can be 7+1 (and I often use 8rd 3913 mags as spares) offers a very slight advantage in capacity for some situations.

Even though it's been at least 20 years since I ordered this CS9 and started using it, each time I run it through a range drill session or qual, I ask myself why it's not the only small 9 I carry.




Simply put, it won't fit in all of my front pants pockets as well as the snub J's.

 

[fastbolt]

Plausible scenarios like a guy with a rifle shooting up a Walmart, grocery store, bar, or bowling alley? I'm not going to go grocery shopping with a plate carrier and rifle, so I guess I'm not planning for the worst of plausible scenarios.

I'm carrying a pistol and compromising like everyone else is. If someone wants to compromise by carrying a full size pistol and 2 spare mags, or compromise by carrying a compact pistol, I don't care. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.

Kinda depends on what you consider to be 'plausible'.

One of our members (passed) used to work in a court house, and he gave attention to the longest hallway in which he might have to encounter an active shooter, which, if I recall right, was approx 75yds. He said he commonly included making aimed, effective hits on threat target at that distance with his duty weapon.

I can appreciate that, as I did much the same thing when adding some extra drills to whatever the usual qual scenarios and drills were each time I worked our range. I commonly pushed my snubs out to 35-50yds+, and took my guns with "SA-ish" triggers out to 75-100yds from time to time. Hell, I even used a couple of issued .40 & .45 compacts I carried at different times and ran them through our Patrol Rifle Qual courses-of-fire a few times, if only to show the guys & gals attending the quals that someone with a handgun can still make intentional hits on some at those distances. Naturally, I had to reload magazines a lot more frequently than the rifle shooters using 30rd mags.

Anyone who can lawfully possess and own a firearm can choose and buy a full-size handgun. The arguably more critical question, though, may become whether they can fight the gun. And do so in the most difficult and demanding conditions that may occur. Sometimes Murphy runs the show, and Luck decides to skip an appearance.

 

[.38 Special]

Plausible scenarios like a guy with a rifle shooting up a Walmart, grocery store, bar, or bowling alley? I'm not going to go grocery shopping with a plate carrier and rifle, so I guess I'm not planning for the worst of plausible scenarios.

I'm carrying a pistol and compromising like everyone else is. If someone wants to compromise by carrying a full size pistol and 2 spare mags, or compromise by carrying a compact pistol, I don't care. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.

I live in one of the safest areas in the entire country, but for some reason we've had three mass shootings, of the type that make national headlines, in the past few years. The most recent one was in a bar that is less than a mile from my home. So the latest addition to my CCW permit is a handgun intended to be capable of head shots at 50 yards, and COM hits at 100. Now, I certainly wouldn't argue that everyone else needs to base their decisions on my criteria (and I sure as hell hope not to get into a firefight against a rifleman!) but as I mentioned, I'm a firm believer in analyzing your own circumstances and then addressing those circumstances as you see fit. And just as you and Mr. Jefferson note, that kind of process should be free for each individual to follow.

 

[shafter]

There's many levels of scenarios that are quite possible although some more likely than others. A robbery attempt by one assailant outside of an ATM is something I feel I can handle with a snubnose revolver. A hold up in a store with multiple assailants or an active shooter situation? Not as likely statistically but they're certainly possible and a tiny pistol isn't going to cut it.

 

[drobs]

I only carry guns I can hit a 25yd target repeatedly with.
No more "get off me" guns for me.

 

[bdickens]

Plausible scenarios like a guy with a rifle shooting up a Walmart, grocery store, bar, or bowling alley? I'm not going to go grocery shopping with a plate carrier and rifle, so I guess I'm not planning for the worst of plausible scenarios.

Bless your heart.

 

[wayneinFL]

Bless your heart.

Okay, I probably deserved that. I was kinda snarky.

But am I really the only person that sees even a full size handgun as a compromise here? There are a lot of plausible situations in which a handgun is deficient against an attacker, more and more often armed with a long gun.

Most people in the worst case scenario, even with a full size handgun, are better off to leave. Just go home and watch it unfold on the news. I'm under no illusion that I'm going to shoot it out with a firearms instructor with a rifle from the other end of a bowling alley. A full size pistol and 2 15 round mags of ammo are just more to weigh me down as I beat feet out a fire exit.

 

[wayneinFL]

I can appreciate that, as I did much the same thing when adding some extra drills to whatever the usual qual scenarios and drills were each time I worked our range. I commonly pushed my snubs out to 35-50yds+, and took my guns with "SA-ish" triggers out to 75-100yds from time to time. Hell, I even used a couple of issued .40 & .45 compacts I carried at different times and ran them through our Patrol Rifle Qual courses-of-fire a few times, if only to show the guys & gals attending the quals that someone with a handgun can still make intentional hits on some at those distances. Naturally, I had to reload magazines a lot more frequently than the rifle shooters using 30rd mags.

A little off topic, but I was at our local indoor range a couple of weeks ago and there was a young woman who wanted to return an airweight 38. After she left I mentioned to the old man behind the counter that I didn't think that's a great gun for a new shooter, because they're difficult to shoot well.

He corrected me. They are not meant to be shot. They're not meant to be aimed, they're belly guns, he's carried one for the last 20 years, he's never shot it, because the only thing they're good for is putting the gun in someone's belly and pulling the trigger.

Why did S&W spend the money to cut rifling into the barrel and put that little pointy thing on the end of the gun, if you're not supposed to point it at a target and shoot once in a while? I've been doing it wrong this whole time.

I'm an almost average pistol shooter on my best day, and even I can hit center of mass on a silhouette sitting still with a snubby at 25 yards. It's definitely not natural skill. Everybody else's target retrieval system must be broke, because the other 9 lanes seem to get stuck inside of 10 yards. I think I just happen to get the one lane that will let you run the target all the way back, and if I paid for the whole lane I'm going to use the whole lane.

 

[ECVMatt]

I would break my carry into two categories, urban and rural carry.

When I am in the city, regardless of the neighborhood, I carry a Glock 19 about 90% of the time. I'm fairly large and it carries well. I feel very confident with the 19 and can't think of many scenarios where I would not be well armed.

When I go to the mountains or the deserts I switch to a Glock 17 with an X300 light. I shoot the full sized guns the best and really enjoy the evenings and night time in those settings. The X300 gives me plenty of light to see what is going on around me and the 17 gives me confidence to shoot at further distances if necessary. I have actually popped a few coyotes with my 17 just by hanging out, being still, and listening.

I have found that paying attention to the surroundings prevents most trouble from interfering with the daily course of my life regardless of the setting.