Skylerbone
Member
Another, PSA upper and lower. Pin, pin, red dot, done.
Good gosh. Hard to resist. $299 parts kits, PSA
- Thread starter Tallbald
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armoredman
Member
I got my Cav Arms lowers, so stripped they came without buttplates! Was told slip on recoil pads will work since GWACS doesn't list them and isn't answering emails. I watched the video on how to assemble a lower parts kit and thought - "That's it? that's all there is to it?" Pretty cool.
Hokie_PhD
Member
My second AR was buying a PSA complete lower, then an upper.
To me it’s the gateway drug I recommend to getting hooked on the AR addiction and builds.
Next step is stripped lowers and building them. Then an upper build. Then is full on being an addicti.
Tallbald
Member
I want to take a moment to thank everyone here who took time from their life to offer insight, suggestions and cautions to me. This is wonderful reading. I did though change my plan and buy an AR pistol kit from PSA for the Labor Day Sale price of $279. It arrives in a few days. I working to find the best price on a lower that interests me too. Great deals online for certain but there's the $25 FFL fee here to have one received. The only local lowers I've found is an Anderson for $50 at Cabela's, and an Anderson for $70 at a local shop. The best deal regionally in stock is KY Gun Company, but they are 85 miles up the road.
I did chose the upgrade to the nitrided barrel and dark flat earth furniture. It's a 10.5 inch barrel:
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...ve-pistol-kit-flat-dark-earth-5165449194.html
It's become quite a learning experience and that's what I had hoped for.
Oh. Uh..... I'm already thinking "300AAC would be fairly easy to cast for and load. All I need are dies really. And a mold.Hmmm"
Thanks again everyone. Don.
I did chose the upgrade to the nitrided barrel and dark flat earth furniture. It's a 10.5 inch barrel:
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...ve-pistol-kit-flat-dark-earth-5165449194.html
It's become quite a learning experience and that's what I had hoped for.
Oh. Uh..... I'm already thinking "300AAC would be fairly easy to cast for and load. All I need are dies really. And a mold.Hmmm"
Thanks again everyone. Don.
Skylerbone
Member
The PSA was a wedding gift to my new bride and she loves it (because she picked it out). Still have my Rock River, nearly 10 years old now and I’m working on my second build (dedicated pistol) from a stripped Aero lower. I cheated and purchased a complete Aero upper which should arrive tomorrow along with a ToolCraft NiB BCG scheduled for Monday. Next will be the SBA3 and RDS, but giving my checkbook a rest after picking up a .44 mag rifle this week (later today).
I didn’t want to scare the OP off, I’m sure not everyone gets build happy; it took me a decade. Still have 4 stripped Anderson lowers on the shelf and whatever the 6 kids (we each had 3) want to order for their rifles.
Something for everyone!
We all have .22s
PSA, RRA, Anderson lower
Aero in progress.
This guy proofs my work and approves!
Elkins45
Member
Other than a 22 LR conversion there is no more economical way to get trigger time with an AR than cast bullets in the 300 Blackout. My two rifles probably have 10K cast bullets through them over the last five years. Brass is easy to make or buy and all you need is a barrel.
I have bought a ton of 30 caliber molds to feed the experiment, but one of the best has been the plain old Lee design in its 170-200 grain variations. You can buy a two cavity Lee mold for less than $30, and 2400 pistol powder cycles both my carbine length and pistol length guns just fine.
Ya shoulda got a PSA lower when you got the PSA pistol kit.
Tallbald
Member
I didn't have enough money to buy a lower and pay $25 to a local FFL to receive it. I had about $285. Insulin, blood pressure meds and electricity to pay for. Won't touch our emergency fund. Not for a lower receiver, because that's not an emergency. Don.
armoredman
Member
That's me, generally not quite enough to get by, so fun stuff takes time to get.
entropy
Member
Same here; I'm working on an A2 clone, one part every paycheck, though it was interrupted by Trap season this summer.
One thing you should know about configuring a lower with a pistol build if the barrel in the kit is less than 16 inches--putting a stock on it results in an illegal Short Barrelled Rifle (SBR) without the ATF's agreement and tax stamp payment. If the barrel is longer than 16 inches, then that part could be built into either a rifle or a pistol (you might have some issues with gas system length though-depending on the barrel).
The FFL will note that lower as OTHER (not a rifle nor pistol) in their bound volume whenever they transfer it to you. On your pistol build, depending on your state--this may have some other consequences depending on your state's handgun laws--such as mag capacity, registration, features allowed or disallowed, etc. Where it gets sticky is if you assemble the upper and have other AR rifle lowers set up. Theoretically, law enforcement could argue that you had intent to make an illegal SBR. In this case, definitely wait to assemble the parts before you get the lower and assemble it.
The AR serialized lower receiver once completed as an AR pistol CANNOT ever be built into a rifle AFAIK --thus, it can never have a buttstock etc. It is not required, but might be useful to note that it is a pistol on the receiver especially if you plan to get other AR's. A lot of misunderstandings occur when someone is using something out of the norm at the range and they call in something to LEOs. Official looking markings, maintaining documentation about the build like copies of the ATF letter on the arm braces, etc. can all be helpful in these cases. Some folks go as far as to semi-permanently attach the short barrelled pistol upper to the lower just in case. Generally speaking, once a lower receiver is built into a pistol, then it is always a pistol to the ATF.
Some useful links that discuss some of the legal issues. You can also find this information elsewhere on the web.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/7/14/building-ar-15-pistols-at-home/
https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/can-i-make-an-ar-15-type-pisto/
I am also sure that there are some THR threads dealing with this or you could post it in the legal forum.
This is incorrect. A pistol may be reconfigured as a rifle, then again as a pistol as long as in doing so, it's never in a configuration prohibited by law. We have been over this subject thousands of times. It's even covered in the American Rifleman article you linked to.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/7/14/building-ar-15-pistols-at-home/
In reality, this happens rarely. In all the years I've been shooting, it's never happened to me, nor have I ever witnessed it first hand. I have never met anyone it's happened to or met anyone who has witnessed such an incident first hand.
Having PISTOL marked on a lower is useless. If one were to take a PISTOL marked lower and assemble it originally as a rifle first, by law it becomes a rifle, must stay a rifle and would be illegal to assemble as a pistol.
This too makes no difference.
Do your own research. Look up the actual ATF rulings and letters yourself. Research the case Thompson brought against the ATF.
One correction to the content of the second link- It is once again legal to shoulder an arm brace.
https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/can-i-make-an-ar-15-type-pisto/
I can appreciate your position. I've been there a time or three myself.
In my neck of the woods, it's been cheaper to buy an AR lower online and pay for shipping and FFL fees. Locally available receivers are almost always $100 and up. I usually wait until PSA has a sale on lowers, like this one. It's $40 and free shipping.
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-stealth-lower.html
Add the $25 fee for your friendly neighborhood FFL and it's comes to a total of $65. If you don't have the money now, no problem. Keep an eye on PSA sales until it comes around again. They'll be having another around Thanksgiving. They constantly have Daily Deals and Weekend Specials. When you can find one you can afford, don't hesitate! They can sell out fast!
Skylerbone
Member
Nope nope. If first a pistol, it may be reconfigured to rifle and back again so long as it is never an SBR (Short Barrel Rifle) while doing so (never have the Rifle buttstock and Pistol barrel together at the same time; for ease of use, remove both upper and any stock/brace before adding parts from the opposite firearm).
If at first you assemble a lower build to a rifle length upper, it is forever a rifle. You could, depending on your State’s laws, apply for an SBR for it, but it would cost you $200 and an acceptance letter to do so. Since you first purchased a pistol lower build kit and you have no other (rifle length) upper in your possession, you need not worry that ATF will arrest you for having an illegal SBR.
This very topic was the reason I purchased a pistol upper last week. @Varminterror answered my questions concerning this topic and also suggested documentation.
MistWolf beat me to it and with better clarity.
In in order to justify the transfer fee you really need to buy multiple stripped lowers. Buying 1 $30 PSA lower and paying $20 for an FFL transfer doesn't seem worth it to me. I can search around and find a dealer with a $50 to $60 lower in stock. Most FFL's will do multiple guns / lowers for 1 transfer fee.
Anderson makes good lowers, I'd have no problem going with them.
Anderson makes good lowers, I'd have no problem going with them.
Mosin Bubba
Member
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$50 for a receiver locally? I'd just get that, wouldn't even bother with online.
I didn't look too hard for them, but when I was building an AR, my LGS wanted $80 for some Anderson or Aero lower and the local Sportsman's Warehouse had Ruger lowers for I think $100. When I found a Ruger lower for $49 on Bud's, I jumped on it. Even then, I didn't save that much after transfer ($25 FFL fee per gun with the pawn shop up the street).
For $50 at Cabela's, you aren't saving any time or money with the internet.
I didn't look too hard for them, but when I was building an AR, my LGS wanted $80 for some Anderson or Aero lower and the local Sportsman's Warehouse had Ruger lowers for I think $100. When I found a Ruger lower for $49 on Bud's, I jumped on it. Even then, I didn't save that much after transfer ($25 FFL fee per gun with the pawn shop up the street).
For $50 at Cabela's, you aren't saving any time or money with the internet.
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My mistake. Got it in reverse when glancing back over the links. Senior moment.
BTW, Mistwolf, look up the fate of Sgt. Olafson in Wisconsin, it does happen
https://totalrecoil.wordpress.com/2008/08/08/malfunctioning-ar15-becomes-a-machine-gun/ Reported to ATF by leos present at the range.
BTW, Mistwolf, look up the fate of Sgt. Olafson in Wisconsin, it does happen
https://totalrecoil.wordpress.com/2008/08/08/malfunctioning-ar15-becomes-a-machine-gun/ Reported to ATF by leos present at the range.
Tallbald
Member
Thought provoking replies and I thank you all! I appreciate and read each one. I recently sold some un-needed tools from a previous life and am using the proceeds to fund this first build. Some tools sold since my PSA purchase and freed up more money than I thought i would have, so today I purchased two M4E1 Aero lowers from KYGUNCO at $65 each. That way, I have a lower for a future build without having to travel 200 miles round trip again. My wife and I had a wonderful day together on the trip to boot. She is my reason for joyfully waking up each morning I should add.
KYGUNCO did transfer the lowers as "other" so I believe I'm good to go. KY is an extremely easy state to live in as a gun person, so I filled out the 4473, showed them my CCW and driver license, paid them by check and away we went.
I already have the fever friends, and now want to build some day a 300 AAC Blackout. I could enjoy casting for subsonic rounds also.
My best to each of you.
Don
KYGUNCO did transfer the lowers as "other" so I believe I'm good to go. KY is an extremely easy state to live in as a gun person, so I filled out the 4473, showed them my CCW and driver license, paid them by check and away we went.
I already have the fever friends, and now want to build some day a 300 AAC Blackout. I could enjoy casting for subsonic rounds also.
My best to each of you.
Don
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As I said, it rarely happens. Even this occurrence is an anomaly. The moral of this story is, if you know your AR has a malfunction that fires more than one round per operation of the trigger, stop shooting it until you get it repaired.
BSA1
member
You are waaaay overthinking this thing.
Build your pistol, do NOT put a vertical handgrip on the handguard or add a buttstock, shoot and be happy.
I think that with the potential political change in November a couple of extra lowers is a wise decision,
There is a gun show coming up next month. I am hoping to get lucky and find some $40 - $50 stripped lowers.
I feel your pain, Tallbald. After snorting at the stubby AR pistols for years, PSA's $299 300 AAC kit hit me at a moment of weakness, and should be here shortly. I have a receiver waiting for it (locally sourced $80 Aero) and am now looking for 300 blackout to feed it. BRD (black rifle disease) is real and we are living proof.
Tallbald
Member
300 AAC is next. I fear the kits may become an endangered species in the next few years, but i could be wrong too. Yes a few lowers in reserve is a good idea. Yesterday I would have bought 4 had I had the money. Don.
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