Good waterfowl shotgun

[351 WINCHESTER]

I don't have much experience with shotguns, but my 18 year old son wants to go duck hunting with my oldest son. As always money is a factor, but I want to get him a good gun.

Any sugguestions?

 

[Kansas Bound]

I do not know if you could do any better than an remington 870 wingmaster. I would shy away from any 3 1/2 gun as I feel they are unnecessary.

 

[Zip7]

The cheapest model Remington 870 (Express?) will serve you well for years and years. I have one that has been a workhorse, and has ridden home from a hunt disassembled in a bucket in the back of the truck a number of times - has never let me down.

If he's going in salt/brackish water marsh, no matter what you get it's going to look the worse for wear after a season, so don't spend extra just for that.

I would agree that the 3.5" models are unnecessary.

 

[chas08]

IMHO buy a Remington Express Super-Mag Synthetic. While I agree that the 3.5's are not needed in most cases. It's nice to have the capability if the need ever arises. The cost difference is minimal between the super-mag and the standard magnum. And since it's a pump, you don't have the feed issues that sometimes come with semi-autos. My wife and I each have one for our "Duck" gun. Both have performed flawlesly, mine for ten years hers for about four. We mostly shoot 2 3/4" steel shot ammo at duck. But Its nice when hunting where geese are known to roam to have a few 3.5 T-shot shotshells in your bag. It makes it almost a 10 ga. Not quite, but almost.

 

[Zip7]

where geese are known to roam...

I was going to say that the 3 1/2 should only be considered when you specifically go after geese a lot.

I've hunted ducks & geese most all of my life in the lower MS flyway - in the delta and in farm country, on big water, and in the woods. Most of the hunting I have done has been for puddle ducks (Mallards, Pintails, Gadwall, Teal etc.) over decoys with calls, and amongst the people I've hunted with the most, pass shooting ducks is about as sporting as running down armadillos with a sportscar. There are some species of ducks and some locations where pass shooting is all there will ever be, but most of my cronies would usually pass on those in favor of hunting over decoys for proper decoying ducks that respond to the call. As such, almost all of our shooting is at closer ranges, and the only long range shots ever taken are to try and bring down an obviously wounded duck.

We use mostly 2 3/4 shells, and it's common to load a pump gun with 2 x 2 3/4 and a 3" for the third shot, because shooting a flaring mallard in the hind end requires a little more oomph. When there are two load weights in shell length - e.g. 1 1/4 oz vs. 1 3/8 oz loads in 3", we always shoot the lighter weight load on the assumption that it might be faster and knock down better. No scientific proof. Typically we shoot #2s or even BB's at ducks, depending on what kind of place we are going to.

As to geese, in some of the places I have hunted it's not uncommon to see far more geese in a day than ducks. Very common to see geese in the tens of thousands in a day of hunting. Most geese are out of shotgun range no matter what gun you have, and stay that way, although depending on the weather or good luck, you may get some decent shots at them some days. We've killed as many as 25 to 35 in one morning, although toting that many geese any distance isn't fun - and neither is plucking them. Most of the people who opt for the 3.5" 12 or the 10 ga. down here hunt in the Delta where they commonly see thousands of geese every day, and have shot at many geese out of range with no success. I guess the 3.5 extends your range somewhat, but it has never seemed worth it to me. Geese can be pretty hard to bring down with steel shot, even if they are in range, and in the old days, people sometimes shot at them with 3" mag #4 lead buckshot. I've seen my best friend pop one that I wouldn't have shot at with a 870 with a cut down 20' barrel and 3" #2 shot - so it's partly a matter of good shooting and partly hitting them in the head.

Anyway, in many years of duck hunting, I've never really felt much need for the 3.5, and they never even had it for most of my years... It has a longer receiver, and a longer stroke, and I guess is a bit heavier too, all of which are undesirable to me. So unless I was a dedicated full time goose hunter, I would pass on it.

As for type of shotgun, whatever you get will require a lot of care and cleaning, because proper duck hunting is hard on a gun. Plenty of water and mud. Mine has been underwater numerous times, and covered in mud, dirt, etc... cleaned with a waterhose on occasion. Most of my hunting has been done with an 870 Express that I paid $175 new for, and my best buddy has the same gun, although he paid $50 bucks for his because it had a blown up barrel which he cut to 20" and had the chokes reinstalled. They have served us well. Some of the guys I hunt with are Browning Auto-5 ists (that's a religion), and they spend more time cleaning and tinkering with theirs than you would with a cheap pump gun, naturally. One of my friends has a BPS, which I dearly love to shoot, but it malfunctions more often than the 870's. Another of my friends has a well used Beretta Auto - which is absolutely a Cadillac of a gun and has proven itself time and again, is a joy to shoot and easy to hit with, but also costs lots of $$. I know people that have the Benelli as well, but don't have personal experience with them. I have an older field grade Citori which I carry occasionally on fair weather days, and I like it, but they are even more $$ now.

 

[cota]

For a new gun Baikal mp153 /remington 453 spartan

 

[chas08]

For Clarification Only

Anyway, in many years of duck hunting, I've never really felt much need for the 3.5, and they never even had it for most of my years... It has a longer receiver, and a longer stroke, and I guess is a bit heavier too, all of which are undesirable to me. So unless I was a dedicated full time goose hunter, I would pass on it.

The 870 Magnum and the Super-Magnum weigh the same in respective barrel lengths and have the same pump stroke length, for a mere $47 more on the MSRP (even less in the stores). As you said money was somewhat of an issue, perhaps a Mossberg 500 synthetic would be in order. They are even lower in price and accomodate 3" shells and have a top tang safety which is really nice if your a lefty.

 

[younganddumb]

I got a moss 535 ATS no problems with it at all picked it up for 275 new great gun even use it for some trap now and then super light to recoil in my opinion is less then a 870

 

[adam_oz]

I would have to say my choice would be the benili Nova. I have one and have had it for about 5 years and i have never had a prob. I wish i could say that about my 870. Not to say an 870 wont work just fine.

A nova will shoot 3 1\2 in shells and is a synthetic material that i think is more durable then the 870. In the gun store i work in, we have sold about 1,000 of the novas over the years and we have only had to return 2, one the guy ran over it with his ATV and the other melted in a fire. They are about the same price as a 870 maybe just a lil more. They also have a button that alows you to cycle the shell out of the barrel and not put a shell from the mag. back into the barrel, a handy feature that i have used a few times. And they are a lot easyer the clean and take apart. Now that i have my nova, i havent shot my 870 once.

 

[T-Ray]

Go with a rem. 870 Express if you can't spend the extra on the wingmaster. Get synthetic since he's going duck hunting. Benelli novas are good too, but for more money than an 870 express. The expresses aren't quite as, i don't want to say good, but smooth as the wingmasters, but either will last many many years

 

[627PCFan]

+1 on the Nova, reliable and takes any 12 gauge ammo made.

You don't always need a 3 1/2 inch chamber, but just in case you would you have it.

 

[ArmedBear]

a synthetic material that i think is more durable then the 870

LOL

No doubt a plastic receiver doesn't rust as easily as steel, but it's probably not more durable.

WRT the Super Magnum, you do sacrifice some of the bulletproof simplicity of the standard 870 AFAIK. I don't think that it's necessarily the best idea to get a 3.5" gun unless you plan to use it with 3.5" shells.

Frankly, if someone has little experience with shotguns, he will probably be just wasting really expensive ammo, trying to hit faraway geese. 3" will work fine for now, and Hevi-Shot or similar 3" will work for an occasional long shot. Throwing more steel shot into the air doesn't help much with range; throwing heavier-than-lead shot can -- if and only if the shooter has built and practiced the skills necessary to hit a faraway, fast-moving target.

Personally, I'd get the cheapest serviceable pump gun that fits the shooter and works with steel shot.

I have a few shotguns, but the 870 Express shoots as well as any of them and it's not a horrible tragedy if it gets covered in mud.

 

[240SX]

Dude Remington 870, I have 2 - 1 for bird hunting and 1 for duck hunting! I LOVE TO DUCK HUNT, and I just happen to live in one of the best duck hunting areas in Alabama (SHIBBY). I have the Remington 870 Express Super Magum Waterfoul Camo (with duck blind Mossy Oak finish). I've out shot guys with their fancy Benelli's with that gun. I've even dropped it in the mud, swhished in through the water in the blind and it kept shooting the rest of the day, like a CHAMP! That's my suggestion. Can't go wrong with the Remington 870. If you don't want the camo finsih...the 870 Express is a great gun too, if your want something that looks more traditional.

(I use the 870 Express Super Magnum Camo (Mossy Oak finish) for bird hunting.)

 

[ctgmi]

It will get scratched and dirty!

This is what I think are the most important criteria for your son’s needs.
The gun should fit him. If price is an issue stick with a pump action.
Don’t purchase anything that either you or you son will be afraid to scratch/get dirty; duck hunting is hard on guns. If you take a look at our camp during duck opener you would see some nice doubles along with some beat up Rem 870’s, Winchester 12, and Browning A5’s. The pretty one’s are for grouse in the afternoon and of course the eyesore’s make the mourning trip to the swamp for the ducks. Also I have never found a need for the 3 ½” shells.

 

[cjanak]

I have a Beretta Xtrema2. Even with the optional "kick-off" recoil reducer and the advantages of a semi-auto with respect to felt recoil, you can still feel those 3.5" turkey loads. Granted, the 3.5" duck loads do feel pretty light with my gun. But I can only imagine big 3.5" loads would pack quite a wallop in a standard pump. You're more man than I (or more something in any case ) if you're willing to deal with that.

So for somebody like me that's not a big fan of recoil I might not bother to have a 3.5" capability unless I was going go with a semi-auto. And heck, I shot more ducks using my grandfather's 20 gauge Remington 1100 two years ago than I did last year using my Xtrema2. Then again, if it's only an extra $40 or so than maybe it's worth it to have the 3.5" option just in case.

I think it's tough to argue against the Rem 870, as I feel it has an excellent rep of being a reliable, affordable duck gun. Mossberg makes some solid guns, the Browning BPS is solid, and I'm sure there are plenty of other reasonable options. Must buddy bought a Charles Daily pump for $250 and shot better last season that he ever did with his 870. I suppose the shooter does most of the work eh, so as long he takes good care of it your son will probably be just fine with most of the pumps produced by major manufacturers these days.

And ctgmi is right on... probably fit is the most important thing anyway... don't stress too much about brand... if it fits well and it's a company you've heard of, probably you'll be fine (if you're looking at pumps, anyway).

 

[chas08]

Armed Bear Educate Me

WRT the Super Magnum, you do sacrifice some of the bulletproof simplicity of the standard 870

How is simplicity sacrificed? I'm curious to know. I've owned both and don't see the sacrifice. For the record I'm not that big a fan of 3.5 12's. If I'm going to use that much gun I'd rather use a 10.

 

[ArmedBear]

Isn't the bolt of the Super Magnum more complex, instead of being a simple block of metal, so that it can cycle 3.5" shells in the same action length?

 

[chas08]

It's essentially the same. I don't know if the inner parts will interchange. But with the exception of a little extra machine work to accomodate the dust shield on the back of the bolt they look the same to me. I like the way Remington integrated the 3.5 in chambering into the 870 because they didn't add any weight, receiver length, or pump stroke length. I rarely shoot a 3.5 in. shell but I like knowing my duck gun will digest anything I feed it.

 

[publiuss]

Any iteration of the Remington 870 you wish. The 870 fits most people well and is unbeleivebly tough. Those that have heard my 870 story before, please bear with me. 10 years ago or so a buddy of mine and me were hunting in the floodwaters of the MS. river in Washington Co. MS. The river was 23ft. above floodstage. We shot our limit quickly, nothingm but Wigeons, I mean they were pouring in. We had my little 14' jon boat tied to a tree w/absolutely no camo and maybe 2 dozen dekes. When we got ready to leave, I reached back to pull the burlap off the outboard (okay I lied about the camo, but the only camo was over the motor). Sorry, I digress, I reached back to pull the burlap off and I heard a plop of something hitting the water. Yep, the old 870 was sitting on the burlap. So we tied a decoy to the tree so we could go back and get it when the river fell. (Yeah right). Three weeks later we decided we would go look for it since the river had fallen some. Got to the spot and the deke was way up in the tree so I got out and started feeling around in the 2.5 ft. water. Found it. No rust, parkerizing appeared to have worn in spots. Took it back to the shop, removed the wood and put it in the oven on low and sprayed diesel all on the metal. Wiped away exces diesel and reinstalled wood after dry. Hunted w/it that afyternoon and still hunt w/it till this day. Sorry for the bandwidth usage but I love that story about the most useful hunting shotgun made.

 

[Zip7]

Publiuss - I do a lot of hunting just south of there in Issaquena County.

 

[Frog48]

For the money, both the Remington 870 Express and Mossberg 500 are good choices.

My duck gun is a Mossberg 835... its a great gun, but I've never needed the 3.5" capability. My backup is a Mossberg Maverick, and its a good gun, and I replaced the synthetic with wood, essentially making it very similar to the 500.

 

[MCgunner]

I do not know if you could do any better than an remington 870 wingmaster. I would shy away from any 3 1/2 gun as I feel they are unnecessary.

Prefer my Mossberg. I've hunted ducks for 41 years now and had an 870, sold it. I don't like the crossbolt safety, awkward as I have to reach under the trigger guard to turn it off. I put up with that on my Winchester 1400 cause I like the gun, but I'm not in love with 870s. Too, the expresses will rust before your eyes in the salt marsh, junk. My camo mossberg resists rust a lot better and even after 20 years in the salt marsh, it's a little scared up, but not rusty.

I am thinkin' about getting a 3.5" capable gas gun for geese, though. Hevishot is getting ridiculous and T shot is best out of a 3.5" gun. If I get a 3.5" gun, it'll be a gas gun, probably a 935 Mossberg cause of the tang safety and in camo for the rust resistance. It'll also shoot 3" steel on ducks. This year for geese (don't hunt geese as much as ducks), I think I'll try some 3" Remington hevi steel in BB. It's more affordable. If I like the way it patterns and brings 'em down, I might just stick with the old Mossy for a while longer.

A 2 3/4" or 3" gun is all you'll need on ducks, but if geese are on the menu, you might think about an 835 Ultimag or something. I mean, it'll still shoot 2 3/4 and 3" loads and has the versatility. It's heavy and the skeet snobs wouldn't like it, but hey, it's a WATERFOWL gun, right? You don't need a 6 lb gun in the duck marsh. In fact, your shoulder doesn't WANT a 6 lb gun in the duck marsh!

 

[Ash]

My duck gun is a Mossberg 500. It replaced a perfectly good Remington 870 express (the 500 has the same safety as my Savage 333, so it's easier to use them both). They both make great duck guns.

Ash

 

[EHCRain10]

if your going to be near salt the mossberg would be my suggestion, the aluminum receiver will resist the salt much better
never hunted with anything more than 3inch and it works for me

 

[romeo212000]

A 3.5 inch shell is completely unnecessary for waterfowl hunting. The physics of efficiency involving shot size and pattern show a 2 3/4 inch shell or even a 3 inch shell will throw a much better pattern than a 3.5 inch shell