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GOP Will Let Assault Weapon Ban Expire...(multiple threads)

Discussion in 'Legal' started by cuchulainn, May 13, 2003.

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  1. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Member

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    USA: "Delay: House Will Not Extend Assault Weapons Ban"

    from the Washington Post

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50358-2003May13.html
     
  2. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    He'd @#$%^&! well better be right!
     
  3. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Man, I just love Ron Paul. He's alright, for a Libertarian.:D
     
  4. Blackcloud6

    Blackcloud6 Member

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    Ugh, the AK-47 is a full auto weapon.
     
  5. Waitone

    Waitone Member

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    I lost my rose colored glasses a while back.

    --Republicans want gun manufacturer liability limitation.

    --Republicans do not want AWB extended

    --Democrats do not want liability limitations

    --Democrats do want the AWB extended.

    --Today democrats announce they will filibuster the liability limitation legislation.

    Since we know how effectives the republicans are in battling a filibuster, I see the threat here as a way for democrats to exert pressure on republicans to get something out of the anti-gun agenda.

    I smell a deal whereby democrats do not filibuster liability limitation if republicans vote to extend the AWB.
     
  6. tyme

    tyme Member

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    Thoughts on strategy...

    What about pushing the left to complain about bush's weak stance in calling for congressional support of the issue? Would it backfire? My impression is that if the heat were turned up enough, Bush would realize he has more to lose by supporting it and would rescind his promise not to veto it. That would just kill the bills.

    Too risky?
     
  7. Shooter 2.5

    Shooter 2.5 Member

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    Too risky.

    We can't continue to have a us vs. them situation. Hopefully the dems will do what they always do but the assault weapons bill will sunset.

    At the next election which is two months after the sunset, the dems will lose even more seats and maybe they'll finally wake up to the fact that gun control is a loser. That's when the Republicans should keep pushing for gun rights. The more the dems fight for gun control, the more they should lose.

    Of course, the whole scenario depends on all of us working together.

    Fat chance that happening.
     
  8. KarlG

    KarlG Member

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    This would be a major victory for freedom and would establish that our democratic republic is functioning to protect the intent of our constitution. The author gets too interested in the politics and forgets the practical. It seems to be prevailent where people overlook the bigger picture to chalk up a win for their team. I see this sort of thing a lot in American business where individuals worry about "their budet" and don't look at the bigger picture of their corporation's financial situation.
     
  9. Shaggy

    Shaggy Member

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    Well, that might work if it were just up to the Senate. But since the house has a say, the Senate can make all the deals they want. The bill still won't pass the house according to Delay.

    We need to keep writting and faxing folks. The pressure must be kept on. Write early and write often as it were.

    We need to write on this other thing about suing gun makers to. That's a crock.
     
  10. Billll

    Billll Member

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    ----------------------
    Sens. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) and Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) recently introduced legislation that would extend the Clinton gun ban with only minor modifications.:what:
    ----------------------

    It depends on your definition of the word "minor".
     
  11. WonderNine

    WonderNine member

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    I hope you're wrong :uhoh: , but that's an excellent analysis....
     
  12. WilderBill

    WilderBill Member

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    I think that DeLay is correct (and right ;) ).
    The best possible outcome would be for it to never leave commitee.
    Still we need to keep up the pressure.
    Even those that will be for us could use some pressure. If they sense enough voter concern, it will be time for us to go on the offensive and get some positive changes made.
    Can't happen?
    Pols usually go with the flow to get votes. If they see a major shift, they won't want to be left out!
     
  13. fallingblock

    fallingblock Member

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    Now's the time, folks.....

    We need to phone, fax, write and even email everyone of the congresscritters...as often as it takes to let them know there is serious support for a sunset.

    If I can manage the above from the middle of Australia...well, let's just try hard on this one, O.K.?:D
     
  14. echo3mike

    echo3mike Member

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    GOP Will Let Gun Ban Expire...

    GOP Will Let Gun Ban Expire
    House Won't Act on Assault Weapons
    advertisement



    Majority Leader Tom DeLay: "The votes in the House are not there." (Ray Lustig -- The Washington Post)


    By Jim VandeHei
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Wednesday, May 14, 2003; Page A01


    The Republican-controlled House will not renew the federal ban on Uzis and other semiautomatic weapons, a key leader said yesterday, dealing a significant blow to the campaign to clamp down on gun sales nationwide.

    House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Tex.) said most House members are willing to let the ban expire next year. "The votes in the House are not there" to continue the ban, he told reporters.

    His spokesman, Stuart Roy, said, "We have no intention of bringing it up" for a vote.

    As majority leader, DeLay decides which bills are voted on in the House. Because the 1994 assault weapons ban expires next year, the House and Senate must pass legislation to renew it by Sept. 13, 2004. If Congress does not act, the AK-47 and 18 other types of semiautomatic weapons that were outlawed a decade ago by President Clinton and a Democratic-controlled Congress would be legal again, handing a major victory to the National Rifle Association and other gun rights groups.

    Past votes and an NRA survey of lawmakers before the 2002 elections suggest that a majority of House members oppose renewing the ban, GOP officials said. But several Republicans, who requested anonymity, said some pro-gun GOP leaders worry that if members are forced to into a roll call vote, they might switch under pressure from gun control advocates.

    President Bush, whose support of the assault weapons ban dates to his 2000 campaign, has drawn rebukes from NRA members and some GOP lawmakers. But several Republicans close to the White House said Bush has no plans to lobby lawmakers aggressively to extend the ban. That would allow him to officially oppose the NRA without completely turning against the powerful gun lobby by fighting to maintain a ban on semiautomatic weapons.

    "The White House seems to think that the bill will never reach the President's desk," said a recent alert sent to members of the Gun Owners of America, a gun rights group with close ties to Republicans. "At least that is what top officials are counting on. In pursuing this strategy, they are trying to please both sides and are playing a very dangerous game."

    Congressional Republicans said Congress will renew the ban only if Bush publicly and firmly insists. "If the president demands we pass it, that would change the dynamics considerably," a House GOP leadership aide said. "The White House does not want us" to vote.

    In a letter to Bush, Rep. Ron Paul (R-Tex.) said: "It is now time for us to stand up against the unconstitutional gun-grabbing and help our nation in this time of great need by allowing law-abiding citizens to use the weapon of their choice."

    It is unclear how much pressure Bush and congressional Republicans will be under to bring up the volatile gun issue, especially in the 2004 election year. While many leading Senate and House Democrats are pushing legislation to renew the ban, the issue is not sharply partisan.

    Many rural and southern Democrats, including a few who voted for the ban in 1994, oppose its renewal and reflect a notable shift in the politics of guns over the past decade. An aide to a Senate Democrat who voted for the ban in 1994 and faces reelection next year said many Democrats "hope it never comes up."

    The reason for the turnabout is rooted, in part, in the fallout of the 1994 vote and Vice President Al Gore's 2000 presidential campaign loss.

    In 1994, the Democratic-controlled House and Senate narrowly passed the ban on the sale and possession of 19 semiautomatic rapid-fire guns and ammunition clips holding more than 10 rounds. Proponents of the ban said those weapons and copycat versions that do not fall under the ban are frequently used in violent crimes, including the deaths of scores of law enforcement officials. Opponents said the ban violates the constitutional right to bear arms.

    In May 1994, the Democratic-controlled House passed the Clinton-backed gun ban by two votes. A few months later, House Speaker Thomas Foley (Wash.), Judiciary Committee Chairman Jack Brooks (Tex.) and several other Democrats who supported the ban were voted out of office after the NRA and other gun activists targeted them in a political campaign.

    The NRA's power ebbed and flowed throughout the rest of the 1990s, hitting a high-water mark after Gore's narrow loss in 2000. Gore lost gun rights bastions such as Arkansas, West Virginia and his home state of Tennessee, in part, some Democratic analysts believe, because he was seen as hostile to gun owners. In this year's first debate among Democratic presidential hopefuls, only Al Sharpton vigorously endorsed the registration and licensing of handguns.

    Most congressional Democratic leaders and presidential candidates strongly support the assault weapons ban and appear ready to wage a public fight over an issue they believe may pack a political punch with independents and women, in particular. Sens. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) and Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) recently introduced legislation that would extend the Clinton gun ban with only minor modifications. If the House rejects the renewal, however, Senate action will not matter.

    In the House, Reps. John Conyers Jr. (D-Mich.) and Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.) introduced a tougher bill last week that would ban a larger number of guns. "I don't want to put my members in any trouble. But if we actually face this, the American people [will support] keeping assault weapons from going back on the street," McCarthy said.


    © 2003 The Washington Post Company
     
  15. Chris Rhines

    Chris Rhines Member

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  16. Chris Rhines

    Chris Rhines Member

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    Ack...there's already a thread in progress. Mods, please delete or merge this one.

    - Chris
     
  17. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    Well, it is a good sign; but this fight is far from over. The WaPo loves the AW ban and is just trying to rally the grabbers because we have been a lot more active on this issue lately.

    Strange how those sorry SOBs can find a dozen quotes from GOA or NRA or KABA to explain how the Republicans are never going to pass this and Bush doesn't really support it; but they can't ever seem to find one clear explanation of what a semi-automatic weapon is for the readers or explain what a real Uzi and AK47 is.

    Also strange that they neglected to mention how McCarthy's bill bans duck guns and all kinds of weapons that aren't even vaguely "assault weapons".
     
  18. srschick

    srschick Member

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  19. Yanus

    Yanus Member

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    See, I told you so...........:D
    Tom DeLay is a good guy and he runs the show in the House. There really isn't a lot of pressure that can be brought to bear against him because he is in a very safe district in Houston. The grabbers can pi$$ and moan, but that is about all they can do.

    Be of good cheer..........

    Yanus
     
  20. TarpleyG

    TarpleyG Member

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    SHOW ME! I don't believe it.

    :what:
    From what I read the modifications were very significant!

    GT
     
  21. David Roberson

    David Roberson Member

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    Boy, I sure hope that this is right. I agree with Bartholomew Roberts that the Post is reporting this in an effort to rouse the forces of evil, but perhaps it will also help encourage those who see that this loathsome bit of legislation could possibly go away.

    While I'm writing my congressfolk, I may drop a line to Delay as well.
     
  22. Russ

    Russ Member

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    Most of the House seats are pretty safe for the incumbents. The House voted to repeal this dog in the 96 already but it went nowhere. I think the House is just as conservative now as it was in 96. Alot of Dems are afraid of this one too.

    The AWB would pass in the Senate with all the stinking RINOS. Actually, one of the lead people behind getting the House to vote against it was Sonny Bono. His wife has held his seat since his death and she is almost as conservative as he was.
     
  23. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    As well it should.:)
     
  24. Waitone

    Waitone Member

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    Bbrring, bbrring.

    "Hello, Danny Hasert here"

    "Hey, Danny! Dubya here. How's it goin'?"

    "What can I do for you, Dubya?"

    "I got a problem on my hands here and I need you help. Fact is you are the only one that can help me."

    "Me? I'm the only one? You must really be in a crack. What's you prob?"

    "Look Danny. Here's the sit rep. Democrats are threatening to filibuster in the senate the gun manufacturers liability limitiation bill that I want and most of the congress wants. Why with that one bill we can shut down a lot of the harassing lawsuits. Problem is the democrats have refined this filibuster thingy to an art form. Combine that with the senate's inability to engage in political fighting and I've got a problem. Danny, I want that legislation."

    "So Dubya, how can I fix a problem with the senate. I'm a whup in the house."

    "Lookie here Danny. All I need is for you guys to roll over on the pesky AWB sunset think. Look I know its worthless legislation. I know it is designed to harass everyone but the criminals. I know all that stuff. Good news is democrats believe it all and they want it really bad."

    "Dubya, you want republicans in the house to roll over and let the senate win?"

    "Danny, you guys are experienced in being shagged by the senate. Remember Clinton's impeachment fiasco? Looik, just consider my request to be a political maneuver designed to achieve a larger objective. Besides, those that oppose the AWB are few and far between; noisey but small in number. So I think we can stick it to 'em with little loss in votes. Besides, who they gonna vote for, Hillary? Not likely."

    'OK Dubya. I set the fix. I'm not gonna explain this to the gun nuts. You figure a way to do it. I'll rig it so the AWB can be extended with a midnight vote with little if any coverage. You figure out a way to make sure the democrats don't slip us the weenie. You get them to vote for liability limitation and get it passed before we vote on AWB. We have plenty of time to hold up our end of a bargain. "

    "Danny, you're a gentleman and a scholar. I owe you, bub."
     
  25. 2dogs

    2dogs Member

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    The Republican-controlled House will not renew the federal ban on Uzis

    "There will be carnage in the streets as roving bands of soulless evil doers, armed with UZIS and bayonet lugged semi -AUTOMATIC weapons sweep the streets of the living, your children and mine, leaving behind bloody masses of broken flesh."

    And when they report this on CBSNBCABCCNN I want to see Tom Delay explain his position on how we must protect the right of citizens to have these weapons.

    It's all about PR and we will (unfortunately) lose. Somehow. Like arming pilots. Get it?
     
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