Got a lemon (H&R topbreak)

[Ash_J_Williams]

I had purchased an H&R topbreak .22 revolver from GunBroker. The seller didn't specify it's functionality, but I asked plenty of questions and made sure that he told me it worked properly, had no issues, and chambered .22lr safely.

I went to my FFL to pick it up today and he warned me that it had issues. I checked it out myself. The ejector doesn't return to the cylinder, it has to be pushed back in every time. That's not the biggest issue. The cylinder has a LOT of play counter to the direction of the revolving. It would be very unsafe to fire.

I contacted the seller and I'll be contacting GunBroker. I'd prefer the seller pay to have it repaired because I really wanted a functional one, but... I feel like he might fight it. It'd also be a pain to have to ship it back to him, because I'd probably be out for all shipping and transfers.

Anyway, just wanted to post this. Thanks guys.

 

[proven]

i recently purchased a rifle from a dealer on gunbroker. not made anymore, hard to come by at a reasonable cost, etc. when it arrived i noticed a small crack in the stock at the tang. closer inspection revealed two more cracks all in the same general area. i could have broken it in two with little force.

i called the dealer and spoke with the owner who refunded my winning bid, shipping to me, the cost of the transfer and shipping back with no problem.

there are some good eggs out there. hope it works out well for you.

 

[Ash_J_Williams]

I'm hoping this guy ends up being honest, but considering he said this was functional when it would actually be quite dangerous to shoot... I'm not betting on it.

 

[Ash_J_Williams]

Posted on GunBroker, but they locked the thread and told me to read the info there.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/SellerProblem.aspx

Please keep in mind that GunBroker.com is only a listing service - much like the classified ads in a newspaper. We are in no way affiliated with the sellers that list items here. We are not a court or a law enforcement agency and we cannot force the seller to issue you a refund.

The absolute best way for you to get a refund is to ask the seller politely. Go to our Resolving Problems with the Seller page and request the seller's contact info. This will give you the seller's name and telephone contact information. Please call or fax the seller using this information, and politely request a refund. If you want your money, be nice to the seller - even if you think that they are in the wrong. If you act like a jerk, you dramatically reduce your chances of getting your money back.

If you cannot get your money back from the seller, your next best avenue is your credit card company (if you used a credit card). If you feel you have been defrauded and sent payment via US Mail, you can file a claim with the US Post Office for mail fraud. And you always have the option of filing suit in small claims court.

If the item arrived damaged, you will most likely need to file an insurance claim with the shipper instead of getting your money back from the seller.

Past experience has shown that sellers tend to be honest in their dealings. In most cases when the buyer expected something different than what they got, it was because the buyer failed to do his homework before bidding on and purchasing the item. If the seller leaves out a detail and the buyer makes an assumption, that is not misrepresentation. For example, if the seller does not mention the item's condition the buyer should not assume that the item is brand new. If the seller claims the item is something that it is not, that is misrepresentation.

If you feel that the seller has made a serious misrepresentation of the item and you sent payment by US Mail, you may be able to file a mail fraud claim with the US Post Office for mail fraud. Contact your local Post Office and ask for the number of the local Postal Inspector. The Postal Inspector will send you the necessary claim forms. You may also be able to file a complaint with the US Federal Trade Commission (FTC). Click here to visit the FTC web site.

Make sure to use our My GunBroker Feedback page to submit a comment on the transaction if there is a problem. Users who accumulate excessive negative feedback have their accounts suspended or terminated. Do not send user complaints to the site administrator via email - complaints must be posted through the feedback system.

We are sorry but as per our User Agreement we cannot resolve this problem for you.

Boy, how helpful.

 

[BCRider]

Look at it this way. Can you imagine how much more it would cost to use Gunbroker if they were to take on such a monumental task and hire the staff needed to resolve such issues? At that point no one could afford to use the services.

It's also no different than what they claim to be. An online alternative to newspaper classifieds. And the newspapers were never expected to resolve such issues so why should a service such as Gunbroker?

 

[madcratebuilder]

You bought a 100 year old economy revolver and it has wear issues, now you want Gunbroker to make it right. Are you posting this with your Iphone from a down town park?

Seriously, a NEW H&R top break probably has some cylinder rotation. Keep in mind that people selling on Gunbroker are not necessarily fire arms experts, and certainly most gun stores are far from fire arms experts.

If I have any doubts about a gun I'm thinking about bidding on, I ask if there is a 3 day return. If not I don't bid. It's buyer beware.

 

[PabloJ]

The H&R revolver was the worst handgun I have ever owned.

 

[45_auto]

If you purchased a used car through a newspaper or Craig's List ad that wasn't what you expected, would you expect the newspaper or Craig's List to take care of it for you?

As for shipping the gun back and getting your money back, my expectation would be as you described, that you will be eating all the shipping and FFL costs. Hard to see where it would be worth it on something as cheap as an H&R .22.

 

[Ash_J_Williams]

Look at it this way. Can you imagine how much more it would cost to use Gunbroker if they were to take on such a monumental task and hire the staff needed to resolve such issues? At that point no one could afford to use the services.

It's also no different than what they claim to be. An online alternative to newspaper classifieds. And the newspapers were never expected to resolve such issues so why should a service such as Gunbroker?

Uh, Ebay has a pretty huge support team, and their fees aren't much higher than GunBroker. Ebay's level of participation in the actual sale is exactly the same as GB's, as well.

 

[Ash_J_Williams]

You bought a 100 year old economy revolver and it has wear issues, now you want Gunbroker to make it right. Are you posting this with your Iphone from a down town park?

Seriously, a NEW H&R top break probably has some cylinder rotation. Keep in mind that people selling on Gunbroker are not necessarily fire arms experts, and certainly most gun stores are far from fire arms experts.

If I have any doubts about a gun I'm thinking about bidding on, I ask if there is a 3 day return. If not I don't bid. It's buyer beware.

My FFL is a gunsmith, as well. He told me ask soon as I noticed the amount of counter-directional play that it would be unsafe to fire.

The seller told me he "Just test fired it, worked fine, lit them off just like it should." Were that the case, he would have probably hurt himself.

If you purchased a used car through a newspaper or Craig's List ad that wasn't what you expected, would you expect the newspaper or Craig's List to take care of it for you?

As for shipping the gun back and getting your money back, my expectation would be as you described, that you will be eating all the shipping and FFL costs. Hard to see where it would be worth it on something as cheap as an H&R .22.

Maybe try using another auction site as your comparison, like Ebay?

There's a vast difference between Craigslist and any given auction site. Craigslist has zero involvement, only deletes ads that are reported to them as being inappropriate, and the listings are free. Craigslist is also known for being a little shady at times, and the variety of solicitation, illegal activity, and even murders related to Craigslist have been well publicized. Since they have no real moderation and no involvement in transactions, that's to be expected, and they're not liable.

An auction site moderates what is posted, actively engages in parts of sales if needed, and again, they take a fee. In Ebay's case, that fee pays for a pretty high level of buyer's protection. An auction site has a reputation to care for. If Ebay had been around as long as it had and let sellers pawn of their junk as functional when it wasn't, Ebay wouldn't be around anymore.

 

[drsfmd]

At best, work towards getting a refund. He doesn't owe you, nor should you expect, the cost of repairs to be covered.

 

[Ash_J_Williams]

At best, work towards getting a refund. He doesn't owe you, nor should you expect, the cost of repairs to be covered.

I understand that, thank you. I just expected, and paid for, a functional item. I expect something functional or my money back, and my FFL suggested I give him that option.

 

[vanfunk]

Have you asked the seller to take it back yet? If so, what was the reply? If not, what are you waiting for?

 

[45_auto]

Maybe try using another auction site as your comparison, like Ebay?

Okay. It sounds like you expect Ebay type services from an auction site that charges significantly lower fees.

Ebay charges an insertion fee on EVERY item ranging from $0.10 for items below $1.00 to $2.00 for items over $200.00, doesn't matter if they sell or not.

Gunbroker charges NO insertion fee.

Ebay takes from 7% to 13% (depending on the item) of the first $50 for every completed auction, 5% to 8% of the amount between $50 and $1000, and 2% of the amount over $1000.

Gunbroker takes 5% of the first $25 for every completed auction, 2.5% of the amount between $50 and $1000, and 1.25% of the amount over $1000.

If you feel that there's a business opportunity running a gun auction site that provides services similar to Ebay with Ebay fees, go for it! My bet would be that most sellers and buyers will stick with the significantly lower costs of a Gunbroker type site without all the "protection".

 

[32 Magnum]

What model H&R .22 top break is your gun? Is it a SPORTSMAN?

 

[Ash_J_Williams]

Okay. It sounds like you expect Ebay type services from an auction site that charges significantly lower fees.

Ebay charges an insertion fee on EVERY item ranging from $0.10 for items below $1.00 to $2.00 for items over $200.00, doesn't matter if they sell or not.

Gunbroker charges NO insertion fee.

Ebay takes from 7% to 13% (depending on the item) of the first $50 for every completed auction, 5% to 8% of the amount between $50 and $1000, and 2% of the amount over $1000.

Gunbroker takes 5% of the first $25 for every completed auction, 2.5% of the amount between $50 and $1000, and 1.25% of the amount over $1000.

If you feel that there's a business opportunity running a gun auction site that provides services similar to Ebay with Ebay fees, go for it! My bet would be that most sellers and buyers will stick with the significantly lower costs of a Gunbroker type site without all the "protection".

Ebay also offers a few dozen free insertion fees a month per account. To the casual seller, you will sell few listing fees.

Ebay has also been around for years. Ebay would have it's driver's license by now. They introduce any seller to a literally millions of customers they wouldn't otherwise have selling locally or on their own site. GunBroker pales in comparison to their duration of time running this type of service and user volume.

Regardless of the amount of the fees, the only person that the fees effect are the seller (you can argue that the seller will need to charge more to account for them, but the often exorbitant prices on GunBroker versus the prices that make you question how a seller can profit at all on Ebay don't support that theory very well).

The discuss here is about BUYERS. BUYERS shouldn't have to suffer from GunBroker offering SELLERS lower fees than other auction sites. It's that simple.

Again, if GunBroker can't protect their buyers, they shouldn't be doing what they do, and if other auction upstarts are any indication, poor customer treatment will quickly catch up with them.

What model H&R .22 top break is your gun? Is it a SPORTSMAN?

It's a Premiere.

 

[45_auto]

Ebay has also been around for years. Ebay would have it's driver's license by now. They introduce any seller to a literally millions of customers they wouldn't otherwise have selling locally or on their own site. GunBroker pales in comparison to their duration of time running this type of service and user volume.

11 years for Gunbroker vs 16 years for Ebay. Not a real significant difference there unless you're an early internet history buff. Gunbroker also has millions of customers, and they're ALL looking for firearm related items. I would personally say that Ebay pales in comparison to Gunbroker in every category imaginable when it concerns firearms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GunBroker.com

Gunbroker.com is an Atlanta, Georgia United States based auction website specializing in the sale of firearms. It was founded in 1999 by Steven F. Urvan, who serves as the CEO and Chief Technology Officer. When eBay has changed its policies to prohibit the auction of firearms and firearm parts (such as barrels, magazines and trigger assemblies, essentially any part involved in the firing of a gun), thousands of gun and part auctions migrated to GunBroker.com. An Inc. Top 5000 company, GunBroker.com is ranked by Hitwise as a top 3 site in the Auction format and is in the top 1000 of all websites as rated by Quantcast. It is the Web's largest hunting and sport shooting auction site . The site currently averages more than 230,000 auction listings for firearms, parts and accessories each month. The site attracts more than two million unique visitors each month and boasts over 1.25 million registered users.

Again, if GunBroker can't protect their buyers, they shouldn't be doing what they do, and if other auction upstarts are any indication, poor customer treatment will quickly catch up with them.

Your opinion, you're welcome to it. Check back in another 11 years and see if they're still there, I bet they will be.

I don't expect them to babysit me, I'm a big boy and can take care of myself. Apparently a lot of other firearm buyers feel the same way I do.

Sorry about your problems with your gun, but trying to find anyone but yourself to blame it on is a waste of time.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I have bought exactly one gun online, and it was with GB. However, I didn't win the auction on GB; I contacted the seller directly (well, the shop that the gun was consigned with, anyway), and dealt with them through email and telephone. Smooth, flawless, and I was very happy (H&H Sports in FL).

I feel your pain, but as others have said, try to remember that it's the seller's fault, not GB. It's just like buying a consignment gun locally; The gunshop assumes no responsibility.

 

[Ash_J_Williams]

I feel your pain, but as others have said, try to remember that it's the seller's fault, not GB. It's just like buying a consignment gun locally; The gunshop assumes no responsibility.

I appreciate your politeness, but again, no, it isn't the same. They're an auction service, and they charge a fee.

 

[proven]

actually, is it pretty much the same as buying a consignment locally. gunbroker isn't charging you the fee. it's charged to the seller, just as a shop charges a consignment fee, to the seller. no different. the bottom line is gunbroker isn't ebay. if you don't like the way they operate, don't use their services. plain and simple.

by the way, have you contacted the seller about a refund?

 

[Ash_J_Williams]

actually, is it pretty much the same as buying a consignment locally. gunbroker isn't charging you the fee. it's charged to the seller, just as a shop charges a consignment fee, to the seller. no different. the bottom line is gunbroker isn't ebay. if you don't like the way they operate, don't use their services. plain and simple.

by the way, have you contacted the seller about a refund?

Uh... Ebay doesn't charge buyers a fee, either. So, there's no difference except one doesn't protect their buyers and one does. One has been around for a short time, the other has been around for better part of two decades. If they don't protect their buyers or make their sellers offer and assurance about the accuracy and functionality of what they sell, they won't be around long. It's that simple. It's just a shame that the gun community is less apt to get with the times than other sales arenas.

I have. No response yet.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Uh... Ebay doesn't charge buyers a fee, either. So, there's no difference except one doesn't protect their buyers and one does.

Exactly. Ebay doesn't charge buyers a fee. GB doesn't charge buyers a fee. LGS doesn't charge buyers a fee. Always the seller.

You can get screwed on any used product; You really don't have much recourse unless the seller offers a warranty. Ebay doesn't really do much about the disputes, either-that's paypal's territory. All you can really do on Ebay is give negative feedback, same as GB/GA.

But it sounds like you're just bent on proving that GB is the bad guy here, so carry on........

 

[32 Magnum]

Ash,
Quote:
Originally Posted by 32 Magnum
What model H&R .22 top break is your gun? Is it a SPORTSMAN?

It's a Premiere.
Depending upon year of manufacture (mostly pre 1938-39) the H&R small frame auto ejecting PREMIER has a "free wheeling" cylinder. When the hammer is at rest, the cylinder will spin freely clockwise and partway counter clock wise. The cylinder is only fully locked when the hammer is at full cock in SA or the trigger is pulled fully through travel just before contacting the sear lever at the back of the trigger guard. If there is "excessive" play in the cylinder with the hammer locked back in SA or after the hammer has fallen, with the trigger held back in DA - then there is a problem with worn parts. If not - your gun is working properly.
As to the extractor not retracting except under a slight push - this is a simple matter of cleaning hardened grease/oil out of the quill and/or inside the cylinder bushing. I've encounter quite a few older H&R that had sat around for decades and had this problem. You only have a real problem with the auto ejecting system if the extractor doesn't rise when the action is opened - or - you can'f force the extractor to return to the rest position. YOU MAY NOT HAVE ANY PROBLEMS WITH YOUR GUN and if so, the argument is moot.
If you provide the serial number and what is stamped into the top of the barrel rib, exactly as written, I can tell you which model, variation you have and approx. year of production.