Got a Quigley this morning.

[Loosenock]

I found a Pedersoli "Quigley" model Sharps in 45-70 used but new in box, never fired with all manuals, advertisements, etc. Here's a couple of pix before I get to my question.



and



I've looking forward to shooting black powder. I shoot nothing but my own handloads. I'm thinking about RCBS Cowboy dies for the 45-70 and going with 500< cast bullet. I hear the heavier weight bullets shoot better in the Pedersoli.

Why should I spend the extra $$ for Cowboy Dies?

Anyone have any good loads for this rifle?

I would like reading your comments on how you like your Pedersoli Sharps.

As always, your comments and opinions would be appreciated.

'Loose

 

[higene]

Quigley

I am really green with envy! That is a beautiful gun. There is a link in "2f-3f in a walker" that takes you to a Venturino link. He is like the guru of the BPCR reloading. I am sure if you search his work online you can find many in depth articles about reloading BPCRs of all calibers.

Higene

 

[Sniper X]

Beautiful, I thought he shot a 45-120 though? I met him (Tom Sellcik) at Gunsite a couple times and he was a very nice personable guy. Good shooter too.

 

[Sniper X]

Sorry, my mistake as his was a 45-110.

The Quigley rifle itself was a custom conversion from a cavalry model breech loader and it retains the saddle ring and patch box from that incarnation. The older 1863 rifles shot non-metallic paper cartridges, loaded from the breech. The falling block served to slice off the end of the paper cartridge and expose the gun powder. The Quigley 1874 conversion was rebarreled and re-worked to fire 45 caliber 110 grain metallic cartridges. The 45-110 stands for 45 caliber and 110 grains of black powder.

 

[Jim Watson]

There is a lot of load data for .45-70 in all the manuals.
The Pedersoli is proof tested for loads up to 28000 CUP, the SAAMI standard, which is more than most sources show for Trapdoors but less than for Marlins and Rugers.

I can't help you with a "pet load" or "recipe" because I shoot .40-65 and that not with smokeless powder.

Mike Venturino's book 'Shooting the Buffalo Rifles' has some good information on black powder and I think smokeless; and interesting reading on the general subject.
http://www.mlventerprises.com/buffalogun.htm

The Venturino & Garbe SPG BP Ctg Reloading Primer was once the standard but has some outdated information like magnum primers and .050" powder compression. http://www.blackpowderspg.com/mlvbooks.html#5

Free reading at:
http://www.wahsatchdesperadoes.com/Intro_to_BPCR_Loading.pdf


You are well off with the .45-70. The .45-120 on the monster 3 1/4" case is more trouble to load for and a hard kicker. I don't think any of the imports are available for the 2 7/8" (".45-110") case of the movie gun.
There are frontier accounts of .45-120 rifles but they turn out to refer to the 2 7/8" case loaded with extra powder. The 3 1/4" case did not come out until Sharps' last year in operation and the factory records show no guns made for it. There are a few in existence but they are probably rechamber jobs.

 

[TomADC]

I like mine although I'm still getting used to it, mine has that same rear sight as yours does but I added the Pedersoli tang sight the USA431, I think yours came with one? I'm 68 and the barrel mounted sight was to much for these old eyes, the tang sight works out well.
I'm just now starting with th heavy bullets up to now 405 was the heaviest I've shot but now have a bunch of 500 gr loaded up 50 with 66 gr FFg & 50 with 70 grs of FFg.
I use Lee dies I made up a 5 die set wih one being a powder compression die and one a case expander die, I use a Lyman taper crimp die at the last stage.
Good luck & that's a fine looking rifle.

 

[Loosenock]

Thanks for all the comments and help gents. Much appreciated.

Tom which 500 gr bullet are you using. I'm trying to smarten up on bullets. I like the 530 gr Postell bullets and black powder for long distance. I've used Trail Boss in .44 mag and 30-30 with good results. I'd like to try it with the 45-70 for short distance.

'Loose

 

[TomADC]

Bullets are from a Saeco mold I bought it says 582 on it but I'll be darned if I can find it on their website. Looks a lot like a Postell has six grease grooves in it.
I just pan lubed 50 today using 50% beeswax, 40% crisco, & 10% lanolin.
Will hit the loading bench in the morning.

 

[4v50 Gary]

About two weeks ago I was at the National Firearms Museum. They have the guns of Hollywood on display including Quigley's Sharps rifle. It is indeed 45-110.

 

[adobewalls]

Load I have been working with for my Pedersoli:

45-70
Win LR Primers
68 gr. FFg Goex
.030 Fiber Wad over the powder
~ 0.4 inch compression +/- to seat the bullet where you want.
Hand seat a 535 gr. Postell (1:30 Lead; Montana Swaged Bullet)
No crimp
SPG or home made lube

It ain't fast, but seems to hit like a slow moving steam engine...
I've shot steel out to 300, but want to take it further.

 

[vulture]

I had a .45-70 Sharps, can't remember the maker now, but it was an Italian repro, cheaper than yours for sure. I mounted a Lyman globe front sight that came with several inserts, and then a venier tang sight. My loads were a slug from a Lee mold, can't remember the weight now, sorry but it's been a few years ago, but the slug was over 400 grns. I made me a drop tube, about 18" long that I would drop the powder through into the case. I played around with it until I got just enough powder to allow for a card wad over the powder, then a crease wad over that and then the slug seated down snug on the lube wad. I made me a wad cutter and cut the wads from some cardboard backs off from those large pads that sit on office desks, some have calanders, others just plain white sheets, about 18" square or so, sure some of you know what I'm talking about. The rifle was not an expesive gun but she would still shoot those loads well. Never papered any but I could shoot a plate sized rock out to well over 100 to 150 yards, anything farther and the target had to get bigger. I was surprised at how well it shot. I did try some dupex loads putting a few grains of smokeless under the black and it didn't seem to make much difference except it did seem to burn a little cleaner. I think the Sharps is one of the neatest guns there is to shoot, wish I hadne't sold mine, but I needed money so it went, maybe some day I will be able to replace it. You have a very neat rifle and it will give you years of fun, and remember, part of the fun is working up your own loads.

 

[R.Clem]

Over the years I have collected many articles from Mike Venturino, who got me started with BPCR's. This article was published in Guns Magazine in 11/05. Hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_11_51/ai_n15402263/?tag=rbxcra.2.a.55
As long as yu are there, check out some of the other links to Mike and others who shoot BPCR's.

Ray

 

[Loosenock]

Thanks Ray, that was interesting reading. Surfing and reading up on the Quigley's this is what I picked up from the movie and the internet.

When you hear Quigley talking to Marston:

Marston: "Ah ha. Legendary Sharps"

Quigley: "You know you weapons. Its a lever action breech loader. Usual barrel length's 30 inches. This one has an extra four. Its converted to use a special forty-five caliber hundred and ten grain metal cartridge with a five hundred and forty grain paper patched bullet. Its fitted with double set triggers and vernier site. It's marked upto 1200 yards. This one shoots a mite further."

What I have gathered (If the movie was based on a factual character and firearm). The base rifle was an 1863 model meaning it was a breech loading percussion rifle. This explains the patch box, miltary style butt plate and the saddle ring bar on the left side. This is what Quigley is refering to "Its converted to use..." in the above quote.

Certainly a very fun movie with some fancy shooting involved. Probably close to being a classic.

As soon as I get done buying components for loading the Sharps I plan on buying a couple of Mr. Venturino's books.

I have some wide open property along the Sante Fe trail in southern Colorado and maybe next month I'll take my rifle, lean-to and cooking irons down a spend a week or so shooting..........I love being retired.

'Loose

 

[vulture]

Read Mike's article, neat read, I'd heard some of that info before. I wish I had the budget to purchase a rifle from those folks, but my income doesn't run that high, maybe some day I'll manage it and until then I'll just keep dreaming and shooting my old Remington rolling block.

 

[R.Clem]

Glad people enjoyed the article.
I have yet to shoot a roller, but from what other have said, they are the equivalent of Sharps. If yours is original, it is just that much better. If you go to the BPCR forum you will find many article about rollers and their care and feeding as well as how many people shoot them.
When I bought my Pedersoli Sharps, it was mainly because of the Sharps hype. I am not sorry that I bought it, but a Pedersoli Remington Rolling Block would have been just as good an investment.
I am betting there is no difference in the distance or the accuracy that either a Remington or a Sharps will shoot in the same caliber.
I have shot my .45-70 at a long range, 500 yards is common now that I have a load that is accurate enough to stay on the 18" plate, a cinder block wall at over a mile has been a real problem to hit, I haven't hit it yet, the wall is about 10' square. At the distance it is sitting when I shoot at it, the wall is about the size of a postage stamp at 4', in the 6 power scope. The scope is cranked all the way up and I am holding at the top of the wall. No dust as of yet, that will happen when things dry out more. Cant wait to see how long it takes a 550 grain bullet to get to its landing point.

Ray

 

[blackpowder bob]

Great looking rifle. I own a Pedersoli in 45/70, but it sits in the safe and never been shot.
I know it's a crime. After seeing the movie Quiley Down Under, wanted a Sharps, but everywhere I checked it was up to a 3 year wait for one. Brought a IAB 45/70 in the white and had a gunsmith rework it with a 34" barrel to 45/120. Been about 15 years since I shot it, but it always drew a lot of attention at the shooting range.

 

[oldgoat46]

The patchbox fitted buttstock was standard on the 18 52, 54 and 59 sporting rifle. the 63 was without patchbox. both civil War era carbines the 1859 and the new model 1863 were with out patchbox excep for a very few early 59 carbines. I have the same "Quigley" model and I find it shoots the modern Cowboy action loads very accuratley up to 200 yards. I have thought about shooting some paper patched bullets in BP as well. Let us know how it works out. OG