got all choked up ...

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All this talk about the volunteers. If it were not for the volunteers, they would have to restart the draft. Then, you would serve or head to Canada to hide out. Sorry about that CanadianDad! What is happening now is basically what happened during Viet Nam. We sent troops over there and then would not let them fight to win. Politicians!:fire: Then the mainstream media got into the arena and continually fed the people garbage and the like. The celebrities had to throw in their half-cents worth. Should have hung Hanoi Jane for treason. The returning troops were spit on, had feces thrown at them, and more. They didn't ask to go, and deserved a hell of a lot more than they got. They politicians, media, and celebrities are doing the same thing all over again, and we won't let them fight to win.

A couple of years ago, on Veteran's day, I thanked a fiend of mine hat had been involved in a lot of LRP's in Nam, for his service back then. He ended up with tears running down his face, and said that I was the first person in the 30+ yrs since he came back that had thanked him. My dad is almost 82 now and served in the Navy during WWII, and his eyes teared up as well when I also thanked him a few years ago.

No, I didn't serve in the military; I had a permanent medical disability, a 1Y for those of you that remember the codes on the draft cards. But, I am damned thankful for those that do serve, for it means that we maintain our freedoms a little longer, and I would much rather our country fight them over there than in our own backyard. That may happen yet!!!

My "Thank you" to all those vets that have served our country. I would also suggest that you thank any vets that you may know. It is sometimes such a small gesture, but, if it comes from the heart it can mean so much.
 
There goes my brother, trying to make Canadians look all intelligent and stuff. Frankly, it's because of him that I get so pissed off at the illegal immigration thing going on in this country. We have millions in this country sponging off the system, breaking our laws, telling us we're racist for wanting to enforce our borders, and yet we won't let a guy like him in! That makes a whole lot of sense.

Proud of you bro. You said it better than most. Thanks.
 
Thanks to you too. For those of you who do not know TX1911fan is my real-life blood brother. He was lucky enough to have been born in the US and now resides there. I have to settle for visiting him when I can and enjoying life (and BBQ!) in Texas...my adopted second home!

Have a great Memorial Day weekend all!
 
CD--

As it applies to your usage, define "terrorists" and how would that be similar or different from "insurgent?"
 
Happy to oblige Kentak.

A "Terrorist" is someone who uses horror, evil, a worship of death, and baseless terror to intimidate, oppress, and murder not only themselves but others indescriminately with absolutely no respect for the sanctity of life.

"Insurgent" is a politically correct term that cowardly libertarians and Democrats have made up to acreditize or soften the evil image of the very same above noted despicable terrorists. However, the reality which these cowards do not grasp is that they are one in the same, as far as my usage is concerned.
 
CD--

Don't like "insurgents," can we call them "rejectionists" and "Saddamists?"
 
CD--

What was the purpose of the Allied campaign of bombing and firebombing German and Japanese population centers during WWII? Was it not to "terrorize" or "horrify" the enemy so they would see how costly pursuing the war would be? Are you saying the Allies shouldn't have adopted that strategy?
 
CD--

Just to be clear, anyone who uses the term "insurgent" is laboring under some PC misconception about the nature of the enemy in Iraq. Is that your gist?
 
The media uses insurgent to suggest to the American public that most of the fighting going on right now is Iraqi.

The Liberal Democrats need for the war to go bad.Every dead soldier is a step closer to the White House. Their agenda was not completed under Klinton and they have lost their momentum.

Much to their dismay some schools are even sneaking in the pledge of allegiance. The treasury still has not taken in god we trust off of the money. The 1994 ASW ban expired and Civilians still own guns

The longer they are out of the White House the harder it will be pick up were they left off and to fix the stuff that went wrong(see paragraph above).


The strategy for bombing the population centers was not for terrorism. By this time the major industrial targets had been destroyed. The ENEMY started dividing up the production into small areas or cottage industries.

The bombing took care of the cottage industries and for right or wrong it also was meant to kill the production workers.
 
Kentak, CD is actually quite right in his definition of a terrorist, and that is mostly what we are fighting in Iraq. Sure, there are some true insurgents who are fighting what they believe to be an invading force. The sad truth of the matter is though, that the majority of the fighters I encountered in my tour were Syrian, Iranian, Saudi Arabian and Sudanese. By definition they are terrorists. They aren't from Iraq. They aren't fighting to push us out of Iraq. They come to Iraq simply to wage Jihad against us, because they are oportunistic murderers. You can defend the "insurgency" if you like, but the truth is, they are lower than dogs. They are not human, and to treat them as such guarantees that we will lose this war.

I don't, however, feel as though we should stay in Iraq indefinately. We went into that country with very clear intentions. It is time for us to hold the Iraqis accountable for their inability to accomplish tasks. We need to set goals for them to meet and push them harder into meeting those goals. We can not set timelines. First hand experience tells me that timelines do not work.

This war is still very winnable. The American public needs to get off it's laurels, realize that there is no peace without victory, and fight this war with the same vigor and tenacity it showed in World War I and II. We are lazy. We want things to come easy. We want things to come quickly. Look at how many Americans supported this war when it started. Look how many support it now that it has dragged into it's fourth year.

I can hear you all now. You claim that Bush imagined the Weapons of Mass Destruction. You claim that this war is about oil. You claim that it is a lost cause. Whether Sadam had WMD or not, he gave us probable cause to believe he had them. He stalled for time. He refused to allow UN reps to search for them. He had plenty of time to move them or hide them. We were in an Iraqi city for six months before we stumbled upon a hundred acre compound in the middle of the desert. The compound contained sixteen bunkers full of WP and conventional munitions. The fact is we may never uncover all of Sadams goodies. He may not have had them, but probable cause is enough for police to search your car is it not?

The bottom line is that we are there. We owe it to the people of Iraq to fix this. They deserve our help. America used to be a great nation. We used to care about the rest of the world. What happened to us? What caused us to stop caring? What has made the American people so weak? So selfish? Were our grandfathers wrong to rescue the Jews from Hitler's persecution? Were we wrong to save France? Was it selfish of us to put an end to the Taliban's grip on Afghanistan? Why then is it so wrong for us to put these terrorists in the ground where they belong. Americans need to stop playing both sides of the fence. We can't make a truce with these terrorists. We have to destroy them. Do you naysayers really believe that if we pull out of Iraq things will suddenly get better for us? Unfourtunately the terrorists aren't quitters like so many Americcans. They are ruthless and committed. We must be the same.

Happy Memorial Day Weekend, guys. Don't forget to think about and say a prayer for the troops who are giving of themselves to give you a chance to celebrate. Thank a veteran. Look at yourselves and think about what your freedom means to you, and remember the price that was paid and is being paid for it. Thanks to all my fellow veterans out there. You are loved and respected and for the ones who paid the ultimate price. You will NEVER be forgotten. Godspeed brothers.
 
marksman13 said:
Chopz, how in the world can you fathom that this war is about oil? There are much easier ways to go about getting oil. There are much more oil rich countries than Iraq. Iraq is a drop in the bucket compared to Iran or Saudi Arabia. Your comment was immature and uninformed.
Click to expand...

take a look at the history of oil prices over the past 5 years, then tell me who's uninformed. read here. and here. and many knew it would happen.

also, many, dozens of venerated american former commanders and generals opposed the action and warned that the iraq war was destined to be a flop. maybe you believe general wesley clark, or general anthony zinni don't deserve our respect? lietenant gen. newbold? even colin powell got steamrollered into going along with a war he didn't agree with.

the american armed forces are an honorable group of men and women who have put their lives on the line i support of what they believe in. i have a lot of respect for that. if the us armed forces are the ferraris and lamberghinis of military strength in the world today, then g w bush is the drunken cokehead behind the wheel. and i don't mean to disrespect the soldiers in the least by saying that. just disrespecting some former deserter, former drunken frat boy druggie rich kid whose daddy bought him out of legitimate service to his country.

my bible says "Where there is no wise guidance, the nation falls, but in the multitude of counselors there is victory." it doesn't lead to victory if you ignore and oppose all your counselors though.

hotpig said:
The longer they are out of the White House the harder it will be pick up were they left off and to fix the stuff that went wrong
Click to expand...

a guy bankrupts a company or 2 and then trys to run a nation. you'll soon find out what went wrong.
 
Very well said Marksman13.

Chopz, your true colors show through very well. And you have no concept of leadership nor do you understand "your" bible. Couselors do just that....counsel. And then the LEADER makes the decision. Sometimes it follows what counsel is given if those men are indeed wise; sometimes if those counselors are cowards and miscreants and the counsel is only used to seal the resolve of the truly visionary leader who cares for the greater good of his people and not the placating of a few arrogant "counselors".

Your immature rants and namecalling of your President elicit a great deal of scorn and pity on my part for you. Goes back to my first post and its message.
 
so which of the generals and vietnam vets were cowards? all of them? those 'arrogant miscreants' who devoted their lives to understanding warfare and strategy certainly had only selfish motives, and couldn't have possibly understood the situation as well as our president, who never even stepped onto a battlefield.

and there's only one way to read my bible. remember, "he comes as an angel of light." a hero; a good guy.

so maybe you want to tell me - what are my true colors? am i a tree hugging liberal? a brady buncher? a coward? i wasn't attacking you personally, but i guess that was why i was the one being immature.
 
Thanks to all of the veterans and our form of government anyone can say what they want.

You can criticize the President, spit in the face of veterans. Make dumb ass claims like Bush did 911 or we are fighting for oil. You can even fly a foreign flag on a public building with a upside down American flag below it.

You can do all of this and go to bed tonight without worry that some secret Police are going to rip you from your home and make you dead.

You can do all of this because the Government that you hate and the veterans that you scorn make it possible.

Do us a favor on this Memorial Day weekend and keep your hate to yourselves. Or just start your own thread and leave this honorable one alone.
 
Great Film and Message!

A person could get "misty" watching it. Makes you appreciate our service men and women even more. Thanks to all who serve, and make it a happy and grateful Memorial Day.
 
Just makes me want to say. Here's to you CPL Richardson. The one in A co 1/41 inf that didnt make it back with us.. I will always remember you and your wife.
 
As we fight the enemy in Iraq, every man and woman who volunteers to defend our nation deserves an unwavering commitment to the mission -- and a clear strategy for victory. A clear strategy begins with a clear understanding of the enemy we face. The enemy in Iraq is a combination of rejectionists, Saddamists and terrorists. The rejectionists are by far the largest group. These are ordinary Iraqis, mostly Sunni Arabs, who miss the privileged status they had under the regime of Saddam Hussein -- and they reject an Iraq in which they are no longer the dominant group.

George W. Bush, 11/30/2005
Click to expand...

General Petraeus has no trouble using referring to "insurgents" in his remarks about the conflict.

Perhaps, "Resistance"

According to Joint Publication 1-02, The United States Department of Defense defines a resistance movement as: An organized effort by some portion of the civil population of a country to resist the legally established government or an occupying power and to disrupt civil order and stability.
In strict military terminology, a resistance movement is simply that; it seeks to resist (change) the policies of a government or occupying power. This may be accomplished though violent or non-violent means. It must be noted that a resistance movement is specifically limited to changing the nature of current power, not to overthrow it. The correct military term for removing or overthrowing a government is an insurgency.
Click to expand...

The point is, the enemy our forces face is not monolithic. Some are al Qaeda, some are resisting the occupation, some are jihadists, some are sectarian militia, some are insurgents. Many of them use terror strategically to accomplish their goals. That would pertain to the groups that want to destabilize the government and foment sectarian warfare. They are all the enemy.
 
you can post news clips all you want, kentak. I'm telling you what I saw with my own eyes and heard with my own ears. I never said we weren't fighting any insurgents, just that we aren't fighting as many as today's media would lead you to believe. Many, perhaps even most of the fighters in Iraq today are foreign. They are terrorists by definition. The Iraqis that we do fight are often the same ones that are blowing up their own civilian popluation. Do you really want them in power? Give me a break.

chopz, if I were to agree with your flawed logic, and believe that the war in Iraq is about oil. Where the hell are my lower gas prices? We own the country, right? Are we not controlling it? So, why haven't we seen this massive attempt at securing their oil? Could it be that maybe that's not on our "to do list"? Think about it. "No blood for oil." makes a damn catchy phrase for an anti war poster, but when you start sorting through the events of the war, and look at how little we have benefitted from Iraqi oil it becomes obvious that it's really just senseless drivel.
 
This "you're unpatriotic!" rhetoric every time someone mentions reality is really making it hard to have a civil conversation anywhere these days. If you enlisted to protect the United States and our way of life...then I'm sure you are all for freedom of speech and defending Americans no matter their culture, creed or religion. As far as anyone changing places with a Canadian...we're allowed to dissent here...for the time being.
 
Even on the Highroad it is getting hard to have a civil discussion. You are right Mumwaldee, god forbid anyone have a different viewpoint.
 
The fact that we can have a debate on the war is a good thing. This means that soldiers are doing their job and we do not live in a police state. However to have it out in a thread made to honor the soldiers; who in no way make political foreign policy or even have much input reeks. It reeks of the same sick opportunism of those who protest at the funerals of the fallen. There is a time and place for everything and this is not it.

The facts are this; military service is not required as prequesite for good citizenship. Because it is not, those who do so and swear the oath to defend the constitution and put themselves in harm's way are going the extra mile. Even those who were drafted all those years ago, as they had the choice of running off or working any one of a dozen ways to get out of it. If you want to pick on someone who is going the extra mile to defend the Constitution for you because you don't agree with current political policy is simply disrespectful.
 
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