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Got Carded Today

Discussion in 'Legal' started by sm, Apr 14, 2004.

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  1. sm

    sm member

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    For buying Cigarettes.

    I am 48 , well until Monday anyway.

    So here I am in AR at a USA Drug and asked to see ID. Huh? AR Law does not sell Tobacco to persons younger than 18 . One has to be 21 for alcohol.

    Silly me asks "why".
    Reply - "we don't care if you are 90, have to show ID".

    I resisted the urge to toss a couple of CCW permits on the counter...I used my College ID. " I need to see a legal form of ID". Great the folks at DMV takes the worst pics...she accepts this.

    So in the parking lot I ask the Asst Mgr. "State Law, 35 yrs old in appearence or younger we to "have"card for tobacco...In fact since we sell Beer, we card everyone 35 yrs old and younger..."

    Now I'm more curious, get home and punch up Ark.Leg...all I can find is the legislation in regard to the amt of tax revenue, quite a bit on this btw

    Dial the phone, for Ar State legislative questions...I actually talked to a human! I am transferred to the Tobacco Control Board. [ umm okay, didn't know we had that ]

    I am informed that one must be 18 in the State of AR to buy tobacco.[ Yep I knew this] Proof of legal photo ID,...such as DL, Military ID includes "kid of Military ID", ... School ID ( mine is not legal because my DOB is not on it...yeah we have a lot of 12 yrs olds at college with College ID *smirk*).

    I am informed that a LOT of "home offices" are making the corporate decision to make their own policies, some places it is 27 , 29 , 35 years of age for both tobacco or alcohol sales, folks are to be carded. Well okay, that is their right, it's CYA deal.

    So I ask just whom or what is the AR Tobacco Board akin to ? Who does the enforcment?

    Think of us as being the "T" as in the ATF.
    We have our own enforcement officers and protocol, actually we have some broad jurisdictions and powers.
    We use informents, and send underage persons in to buy tobacco products. We do not "bait or decieve" by sending a underage person in that "might" appear older than they are.

    At this point I'm thinking F troop. Might as well ask and further my education. So I ask about going out of state and buying cigarettes , how much can I buy and bring back to AR "legally". Answer : 1 carton and 1 pack. Anymore and I would be "bootlegging"

    "What about those internet sites ...especially the Native Americans, that sell tobacco on-line"

    Reply- "That is illegal as well. We are having a devil of a time with bottlegging and internet sells. We have raised fines and all...we have procured more means to catch folks...enforcment has new methods, techiques and all...don't know how we can deter and STOP this activity".

    I replied " In all due respect ma'am, you cannot STOP it. All this does is keep an honest man honest. Remember Prohibition? Truth is folks are gonna do what they wanna do. One thing folks do not want is to be Controlled ...especially when that control is under the guise of something else...like tobacco tax monies.

    - Silence-

    I continued to state ," I don't want to argue the tobacco or alcohol use ...anything else of minors. Part of the problem is parents don't teach kids and raise them such. Schools...public schools for too long have preached this feely -touchy "gummit gonna take care you" doctrine. Everybody else jumped on the bandwagon.

    Now ma'am a lot of kids, including girls, asked about tobacco growing up. A parent or grandparent would hand them a smoke, teach them to roll one, or a plug of chewing tobacco. Kids get light headed and start coughing...maybe they don't like that plug of tobacco...they never ever touch it again. Responsible parents / adults taught and answered questions...curiousity satisfied. Or they got butt spanked when sneaking off , lying about it and got caught...heck some would have had a chance to try in front of a parent and evaded the spanking."

    Being more curious ( and tacky) I holler at my just turned 24 yr old neighbor and we hit a local Mom&Pop drug store, a two gas stations with a "mart" inside. She was not carded, she is young looking for her age...I mean young. Maybe the shorts , sandles and low cut top without a bra is the trick...I dunno

    Well I wanted to share this.

    Shaking my head and wondering about the "T" enforcement team . They got flash bangs and such ? :D

    I'm such a threat to society, White male, late 40's...gee I've been profiled :D Travis McGee was right I see...:p

    I sure am glad the State of AR is protecting me...:uhoh: :scrutiny:
     
  2. GigaBuist

    GigaBuist Member

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    I got carded once for buying a non-tobacco non-nicotine containing chewing tobacco look alike product.

    I informed them that there's no tobacco in this, it's legal to sell without ID.

    Company policy, have to ID even though it's not restricted by law in any way, shape, or form. Holy crap.

    Bought ammo at Gander Mountain once and was told I had to be 21 to legally purchase pistol ammo. I think that's actually the case... I wasn't going to argue though. I just said, "Uh huh," and she seemed to refuse selling to me. "I'm 23, is that close enough?" Sigh. She got the idea. Backwards math.
     
  3. sm

    sm member

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    Well next time I'm asked why I CCW...

    I might get attacked by a bunch of BIG 16 y/o's wanting my smokes...:D

    I think the gummits at all levels have their tin foils hats on a bit too tight. That or "Indoctrination" has replaced the New Employee Introduction to your job description and the handbook rewritten.

    I guess I need to do a search and see if PVC or old ammo boxes still the best thing to bury stuff in...I wonder if the hardpacks do better that soft packs when you bury cigarettes. :p
     
  4. jfh

    jfh Member

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    if there were some way to 'study' this

    carding phenomena, I think we would find it is in direct correllation to the rise of the nanny society stuff--which came out of the victimology game Sick Willy cranked up, of course.

    Essentially, it's the great activist game, combined with CYA thinking--e.g., we start out with, for example,

    1. the tobacco outrage game. That leads to
    2. some underemployed do-goodies creating an activitist group, and they lead to
    3. the politicos creating a commission to study the issue, which leads to...
    4. hearings, contentious hearings, and new laws, which lead to...
    5. new legalized mandates for control, which leads to....
    6. an ATF office, with non-legal but regulatory guidelines and that leads to...
    7. the Trial Lawyers seeing a new revenue stream, which leads to...
    8. a business getting caught in a sting, and a lawsuit, and that leads to...
    9. the boss, or the corporate office creating new 'selling' regulations, and
    since the boss wants to be doubly cautious, he now creates guidelines to "card anybody that looks under 35 (nominally double the legal age) because that ought to keep us safe, but that leads to
    10. the local manager/counter employee saying to hisself, "well, since the boss wants to check ID on anyone who looks under 35, I'm gonna CMA and card anyone under 50....
    11. And finally we have a counter kid saying to you, showing me your ID--
    and the first thing you know, you--an OWM of 54, standing in the short grocery line at the local cakeeater's grocery store--being asked for an ID by some poor cashier who looks every bit as old as you do, and all the suburban Sallies in line behind you frowning, since you are gabberflasted and actually asked "WHY?"

    All those people in the chain--from the outraged citizen at the beginning through to the smug clerk at the end, get to FEEL GOOD: they have been able to DO SOMETHING--but all that something is, at the end of things, is another absurd social transaction that diminishes the civility of our lives.

    This is, of course, the great GUN CONTROL game, right?
     
  5. Zach S

    Zach S Member

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    About the only time I get carded is for ammo at wally world, I can count the times I've been carded for smokes on one hand. I've never been carded for alcohol, of course I can count the times I've bought it on one hand.

    I look older than I actually am, however I'm 22 years old. Evidently I look older than 27...
     
  6. Sisco

    Sisco Member

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    At some of the local businesses if a checker sells tobacco or alcohol to a minor the fine comes out of his / her pocket. A $300 fine and a minimum wage job don't go well together.
    Maybe a case of once bitten twice shy?
     
  7. sm

    sm member

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    Yes some folks have to pay fines out of pocket, no matter the pay scale it still hurts.

    Just gets one to thinking as jfh alluded to...mindset of today's society.

    Hey a classmate is 32, has two girls and wants to purchase model car / airplane glue for one of the girls helping granddad put a model plane together ( quality time and history lesson). While she is at the grocery she wants a can of whip creme as a treat for strawberry shortcakes.. She has to ask for it as it is now behind the counter...she wasn't carded, but still had to ask. Grocer didn't like the policy...kids sniff this stuff. His contention is next you know kids will have to have an adult buy gas for the family lawnmower...kids sniff gas as well.

    I mowed yards as a kid and put models together...never a problem buying my own gas and the glue was easy to reach. I was taught different, in a different time perhaps.


    Well hell, what next- implant everyone with a chip? Scan the human being, to get ID, make sure "he can have this" deduct monies from his acct...

    Oh wait...they want to do this already. "Gummit gonna protect you" Or perhaps "Gummit wants to control you , make sure you paid taxes on that monies,that firearm won't fire if the chip won't match...make sure you are a
    citizen...

    It is the principle of the ideas. I mean really it is only a pack of smokes. I am limited to 2 packs of sudaphed because of the meth dealers.

    Just got me to thinking -again - how even the seemingly small stuff is affected.

    Then again drops of water over time do erode granite...
     
  8. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    sm,
    Purchase of tobacco products by underage youths is one of the biggest crisis' of our time. It has to be, the feds are giving out grant money to pay police officers overtime to enforce these laws. :what:

    Yep, there is no federal money for overtime to protect our infrastructure when Tom Ridge decides he hasn't been on the news awhile and decides to raise the threat level. Bet there is grant money to pay the police to run stings and catch those evil convenience store clerks selling tobacco to kids.....Heck there are even schools so officers can become certified to run the stings.

    Jeff
     
  9. Carlos

    Carlos Member

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    Sm, don't forget to be flattered that you're 48 and look 35. :rolleyes:

    Had a similar experience with a Texaco gas station/store. I fill up my car outside and pay with the card.

    While fueling, I go inside and get a beer for later. Checker asked me for my ID. I was as shocked as you (I'm 46 and my hair is as white as Gandolf the Wizard). I pulled out my little mini-wallet that contains drivers license on one side and CHL on the other. This wasn't good enough. She asked me to remove it from the wallet. I was entirely too polite, now that I look back.

    The little wench actually walked over to a input device and keyed in my driver's license number. I was shocked to tears, but ....

    I need to go back there and have them try this on me again.

    :fire:

    EDITED TO ADD: So I can laugh my shorts off and get some sort of relief from the rape. :rolleyes:
     
  10. tc300mag1

    tc300mag1 Member

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    Thats ok i can top this .. I was cared today for buying a Gun Rag..Can you believe that i said what? Told me if i wasnt over 21 since it was a handgun mag i could buy it .. thought i was gonna have a heart attack laughing my Butt off at this guy i said "would it matter if i had a gun on me now"... no but still have to id you for mag
     
  11. sm

    sm member

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    Jeff White

    Yes Sir, I concur.

    We have officers in need of new vests for instance...no monies budgeted for such.

    There is money for more "important" matters it seems...

    Sure glad "gummits" have our priorities straight...:scrutiny:
     
  12. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

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    Oh Steve - what a classic ... (forgive but) Bwhaha! :D

    I am waiting to get carded at the Ponderosa ..... they do ''seniors'' (doncha love that word) ... and some quite good meals in that category ... it's 55 and over. My son says I look OK for age but .. with white chops like a geriatric Labrador (you've seen it too :) ) ... and hair that has had most ''brown'' removed, to be replaced by a sorta ''silveryness'' :p ..... I don't think I'm fooling anyone at 59!.

    Other real gas was ... 2 years ago (so OK I was 57 and still white chops) .... took a buddy down to DC to catch a plane after he'd stayed a coupla weeks. Drop into TGI Fridays for a slap-up and a beer ..... this waitress decides she wants to card us ... buddy is about 38, and looks it, at least!

    I say ''hey - you're jokin right''?? She says .. ''I gotta card ya''. I could not believe it ... I mean . I could - if VERY optimistic and generous .. just get taken for 45 ish ... tops )on a very good day!). Anyways ... we did the necessary and carried on but sheesh .. that was so absurd it was worthy of Guinness Book of Records.!!:D :D
     
  13. Carlos

    Carlos Member

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    Yes, it's hilarious later, and SM, as an officer, upholding and enforcing the law, you should be a little bit more tolerant about having to obey a "law", albeit stupid, you were sworn to enforce. Myself, I should have been flattered that I was carded at 46 with my episode with stupidity.

    Pain in the butt for everybody, I understand your anger.

    And, as far as getting more vests, take a leadership role/stand and get all your fellow officers on the bandwagon to complain to all the right people about protecting "YOUR" lives.

    Best wishes. Buy the vest yourself, if you can.
     
  14. sm

    sm member

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    Carlos,
    I am not LEO. Most of the LEO and such I knew as friends and 'assisted' with some matters, have retired and /or moved away.

    Yes I am the eldest of 4 sibs and I'm the one that is just now getting a bit of gray in my moustache...very little at that. I take after a family member that didn't gain weight, had very little if any gray, and a full head of hair. My sibs are fat, ugly and look old. :neener:

    For years I have forgotton my own B-day . Yes I actually forgot to renew my DL last year in April because of this...So five months later I get a letter from DMV " did you forget something" ...NO big deal the ladies at DMV just laughed.

    I haven't celebrated B-days and holidays since I guess '96, "97',98 - heck if I know whenever I was divorced. ... Being single live alone, going to school ...etc.,..and only person that "says" anything is mom...she knows and respects this stuff means nothing to me. I do for her and others...mom just takes me out to eat or something...topic of why is never brought up

    I had to do some personal updates on school records, or I would not be aware of this year...I can forget a lot b/t now and then with more exams and labs due.

    Funny I went to mom's pharmacist whom has never seen me before, picked up mom's meds some time ago. Filled out the personl check mom had given me. I volunteered to show ID or have him call mom. No need - no problem ! I ask if mom had called - nope. Smart fella...he picked up on the fact I knew his name, correctly spelled the family name, and knew the generic and trade name of meds. Didn't figure me for a crook...dopehead, stolen checks...
    Kinda nice to meet a fella with common sense these days...

    Chris this is funny... I have a buddy that turned gray early I mean real early in life. He re-married a younger woman. Out to eat with his wife and the waitress brings the check . He counts out exact change and hands to waitress, sticks the tip in her apron pocket.

    She comes back and brings him back change!! "Sir you forgot to figure the Senior citizen discount , which also applies to your daughter's meal as well." :D

    He is stunned, speechless...waitress walks off, daughter is cracking up, spills her coffee..."daddy can we go to the mall for me a new outfit"...batting eyes..."huh daddy huh". ROFLMAO
     
  15. Moparmike

    Moparmike Member

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    OH MY GOD! I am an accomplice! Do you know how many college kids bring back their 2 cartons of smokes and 2 liters of alcohol from Mexico just for the tax break? Hell, I drove like 6 cartons and 6 liters back from St. Louis (where our flight landed)! Ack! :D


    Ok, I am 20 and have about a dozen gray hairs. I dont even smoke, yet I am tempted to see if I can get by without ID. Nevermind that I bought my once-monthly cigars at an EZ-Mart at 16-17 where a friend worked...:uhoh:

    Steve, I too am glad that AR is "protecting" us. :scrutiny:


    You and I should go shooting sometime.
     
  16. sm

    sm member

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    Oh Mike , heck I'm a bad influence...

    I mean I CCW , buy smokes, pick up ammo,and mags for guns I don't even own. I buy 2 boxes of sudaphed, a quart each of Acetone, Denatured Alcohol, oil lamp fluid. I have hulls and cases rolling around in my truck bed...

    I'm either a older returning student running errands.. including stuff to clean paint, save a trip for a friend into town, with sinuses giving me fits and all.

    Or I am a threat to society :p

    I have 'puter and a ISP...heck I'm on a gun forum and sent monies to various RKBA needs and I'm reading EFAD. Yep I'm a bad boy.

    I dunno Mike...I might corrupt you . Plus I don't think the Brickyard likes me much. I "may or may not" *ahem* have passed out pro RKBA stuff once upon a time up there...

    I betcha I could cruise through Jeff White's area and get a cup of coffee on this side of the bars with no problem...Brickyard and Praire Grove might not be so kind...;)
     
  17. Carlos

    Carlos Member

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    Dude, you're a lot like me. I'm from your school, let's put it that way.

    At my age, I'm right where you are, where I have little tolerance for stoopid. I'm trying to keep from reacting to the stoopid.

    Unfortunately, we have to live through this crap.

    Sure, it pisses you off, but we need to learn how to react better to our environment.

    I like the humorous approach. I need to learn how to just start laughing at the absurd.

    :)
     
  18. sm

    sm member

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    Oh I laugh at myself - trust me I have a sense of humor. I have to remain viligant and I do learn a lot from folks from here at THR. I do have a very serious concerned side as well.

    Hard to feel sad for some folks, difficult to laugh at some folks...gummit just leading the sheep to the cliffs and then over into a jagged rocky rude awakening...too late then.

    Sometimes folks don't see the big picture...perhaps using a smaller screen allows some to get a grasp of the basics...

    Hey I admit I need stuff broken down at times to understand it.

    I figure we have lurkers on THR that are fence sitters, or maybe totally against us. Everyone once in a while one can hope something as trivial as my experience might actually "click on the lightbulb" for these folks. Not a bad thing if a person starts thinking, researching, the truth for themselves...being responsible for themselves and family.
     
  19. one45auto

    one45auto Member

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    The only time I was asked for ID was last summer, when I went into a convenience store near Jacksonville to purchase a ticket for the Florida lotto. "You have to be eighteen to buy a ticket" she says. Well, I'd left my wallet in the car with my wife and didn't feel like going out to get it since I'd already stood in line long enough, so I debated the point briefly with her. "Look lady, I'm 36....I've got a goatee, and this child standing next to me is my daughter....do I look like a pubescent teenager to you?" However the $#%@ wouldn't budge an inch and insisted on seeing some ID, so in a flash of inspiration I took off my hat. Needless to say she blushed and handed me the ticket. Sheesh....:rolleyes:


    My daughter and I got a good laugh out of that one, in fact she still talks about it. :D
     
  20. tyme

    tyme Member

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    Can minors buy nicotine patches?
     
  21. Treylis

    Treylis Member

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    I would have shown 'em a CCW permit, just to be snooty. ;-)

    That's absolutely amazing. If it's possible in your state, I'd recommend open carrying and then trying to buy the handgun magazine just for the hilarious experience.

    I'm almost positive they can't.
     
  22. spartacus2002

    spartacus2002 Member

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    A bureaucrat is the most despicable of men, though he is needed as vultures are needed, but one hardly admires vultures whom bureaucrats so strangely resemble. I have yet to meet a bureaucrat who was not petty, dull, almost witless, crafty or stupid, an oppressor or a thief, a holder of little authority in which he delights, as a boy delights in possessing a vicious dog. Who can trust such creatures?
    -Cicero

    It is the invariable habit of bureaucracies, at all times and everywhere, to assume– that every citizen is a criminal. Their one apparent purpose, pursued with a relentless and furious diligence, is to convert the assumption into a fact. They hunt endlessly for proofs, and, when proofs are lacking, for mere suspicions. The moment they become aware of a definite citizen, John Doe, seeking what is right under the law, they begin
    searching feverishly for an excuse for withholding it from him.
    -Henry Louis Mencken

    Gotta love it when rules, regs, and fear of liability turn cashiers and small-business clerks into bureaucrats..
    :barf:
     
  23. Battlespace

    Battlespace Member

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    It depends on where I happen to be
    I am a 54 YO who also happens to be retired from the military. When I head to the Class VI for some adult beverages I know I will be carded. Not only do they check to assure I have a military ID card, they look at the birth date on it. I have a full beard that is silver, usually wear a Vietnam Veteran hat, but they are still required to check. Two weeks ago my 12 YO daughter was with me and when we left the clerk reminded me that she could not carry any of the packages I had purchased. The clerk said the MP's had cited a customer a few days earlier for providing alcohol to a minor when he let his young son carry a six pack out of the store (helping dad?).
     
  24. ID_shooting

    ID_shooting Member

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    I just love the parnoid clerks out there. I havent been carded for smokes in several years, but last week I noticed I was running low on gun cleaning supplies so I head out. I stopped at Wally World for some other things and decide to get a couple boxes of pipe cleaners. I search and search but I can not find them, I finally stopped someone in a vest and they told me they were at the tobacco counter, cool, and off I went, I wait in line behind four people that don't speak english, a young couple that were dressed to the gills paying with food stamps, and a pack of young giggling girls buying makeup. I finally get to the clerk and ask for my pipe cleaners, she looks at me and asks for my ID. My reaction at this point was a mix of :what: :fire: :cuss: :banghead: I asked why, and she said that you had to 18 to buy tobacco products, I looked at her and asked her how much tobacco was in a pipe cleaner. She replied that it was the law and there was nothing she could do, I hit the floor laughing and asked for a manager, well here comes this 18 you girl with manager on her vest, and asked what the issue was, I told her that I didn't believe that I should be carded for pipe cleaners. she said that you have to be 18 to buy them, I told here I allready heard this but didn't think it was true. She replied with sothing about state law, I just rolled my eyes and asked he to tell me which law and how many kids she thought would ever need pipe cleaners. I told her besides, I don't use them to clean pipes, I use them to clean guns. That got both gals wide eyed stand offish. I roduced my ID and the only reaction I got was, oh youre 34, ok, I can sell these to you. I went away and picked up my other stuff, but I have to think to my self, by the time a kid needs a pipe cleaner, isn't it too late to worry about stopping them?
     
  25. ducktapehero

    ducktapehero Member

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    What strikes me as funny is that you have to be 21 to buy non alcoholic beer(at least it used to be that way) but can buy cough syrup with alcohol at any age.
     
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