Got "interviewed" 90 minutes ago...

[Fred Fuller]

Parting shot from Sumdood who ran an approach on me a couple of decades back in a parking lot in Fayetteville, NC was, "You aren't gonna shoot me, are ya?"

I hadn't shown him a gun, either.

Sounds like mens rea at work to me.

 

[Loosedhorse]

"You aren't gonna shoot me, are ya?"

Kinda begs a "Why, should I?", doesn't it?

 

[Devonai]

It has always bothered me that some crooks seem to be aware of the fact that GIs out and about in the US are very likely unarmed.* I have always avoided doing anything on drill weekends other than heading directly to and from my duty station. If my buddies and I have the opportunity to go out for lunch, at least we're not going out alone.

*Every soldier/airman I know carries a knife or at least a multi-tool. When I lived in NH, the knives were sometimes larger fixed blades (sometimes the CO or 1SG would chime in on really big pig stickers, but 4"-6" were okay). So no firearms, but better than harsh language.

 

[opsman]

I agree with heeler, you get an A in my book. You were right to do a quick 360 of the area, as you said the area where you were is just off the beaten path and just the place for someone to get the drop on you. Suggest you move your workout area to a more visible area. "No bad guy here" yeah right, if he was no bad guy, then why and how did he know you were prepared to defend yourself with more than just your hands? Again, you get an A in my book. Well done.

 

[Tim Burke]

Well done. I agree with your assessment. I might have been ruder before he closed the distance.

 

[medalguy]

Yep, well done. You never know what a situation may turn into until it's too late. You did the right thing by making it appear that you were armed, which may have kept this guy from escalating the situation. Had he thought you weren't armed and/or capable of defending yourself, what might the situation have turned into?

Yes, it's a shame this country has turned into what we have today, but the facts are what they are. We all need to stay alert and in condition yellow whenever something of this type happens. You made the right choices in my book to keep the situation from turning into something bad.

Oh yeah, and thank you for your service to our country.

 

[freyasman]

devonai, you are correct about GI's being unarmed; the reason I don't carry a handgun, even off-duty, is because I never know when I might be called in to the post, and I can't just lock it in the car. But, while the handgun was a bluff, I had a folding knife in my pocket, a collapsible baton in the door compartment of my truck, and 25+ years of martial arts, boxing, and MMA training. Confidence was HIGH...

 

[ChileRelleno]

You did very well.

I'm a trucker, I carry and I get approached fairly regularly at deliveries & truck stops.
I try to stay in Yellow at all times, and intently approaching stranger when I'm relatively alone triggers Orange.
I try to stop their approach from the git-go, loudly declaring, "Whatever it is, I don't want it, wanna know, nor care!" while doing a quick scan.
If that doesn't work a firm & loud command to stop them as far away as possible, "You're invading my space! Go away!" as I add distance towards cover or other people.
By that point I've a hand on my EDC and am looking to get anything between us.

Most often if they're simply panhandlers, they get IT very quickly, hastily stop, apologize and still try to run their sob story for chump change.
Some are indeed questionable, they usually just beat a quick retreat while either playing innocent/offended, or making excuses/peace offerings and a few are actually cussing me.
Very few are just normal people inadvertently approaching.

I'm often borderline rude, and I don't care, I trust no one I don't know.
Never let them get within 10', much less arms length... You'll seldom see the assault coming if they get too close.

 

[HOOfan_1]

I work at an inner city Library. I see a TON of homeless people. Many of them are not mentally all there. I've had many of them come up to me and drone on and on about their homeless status, or just drone on and on about something just plain nuts. Just yesterday one was droning on and on about not getting along with his mother and being homeless at the time. I didn't not ask nor need any of the information he was going on about. He was probably 20-30.

The guy you talked too may have been scoping you out, or he may have just been mentally unstable. Possibly both, I wouldn't say he is harmless either way.

Yes, it's a shame this country has turned into what we have today, but the facts are what they are. We all need to stay alert and in condition yellow whenever something of this type happens. You made the right choices in my book to keep the situation from turning into something bad.

The country hasn't "turned" into anything. There have been dangerous muggers and murders in this country since humans migrated here. Look up John Murrell, there were plenty of his type throughout American History.

 

[Tex4426]

even if he was a homeless man just asking for money and no threat i wouldnt bet my life on it...you never know if someone is looking for some free money or some trouble...either way he isnt getting it from me...sounds like you did the right thing

 

[USAF_Vet]

Based on the OP's description, I'm not seeing the homeless factor. In fact, he sounds a lot like me, except I don't have a silly chain on my wallet.

not all crimes happen late at night, so the time of morning is irrelevant. I'd say the OP did a good job in passing (or failing, depending on the perspective) the interview. Better to err on the side of caution and offend someone who might have just been about to ask something inconsequential rather than get assaulted.

 

[Nushif]

As much as people are sitting there saying "No bad guy here!" is some admission of guilt, lemme reframe this,

"I was totally new to this panhandling thing having only recently been kicked iut of my sister in laws's house when i tried my gig on this GI.
I walked up to him and the moment he saw me you'd think I kicked off every PTSD memory ever. First he did some sort of military sweep of the area. I walked up to him and tried some small talk talk but he was totally stonewalling me.
So after none of this worked for me and he was mad dogging me with his hand right near where I am thinking he has a gun I walk off saying "no bad guy here!" Just in case. those military guys really need some better PR training or less combat, because his body language was this close to violence and the whole time I felt like he was contemplating where to put a bullet in me, even though we're standing in a parking lot in a friendly part of town. Some of them really need therapy."

I am not saying don't be ready to defend yourself, and don't be observant. But there is such a thing as mad-dogging or eyeballing someone. And rarely is it good tactics. Glad nothing happened. But sometimes a lonely and desperate bum making conversation really is just a lonely and desperate bum making conversation.

 

[MuleRyder]

But sometimes a lonely and desperate bum making conversation really is just a lonely and desperate bum making conversation.

I'm not betting my life on it...he can go talk to someone else. I'm a truck driver and I've seen all types of lowlifes trying their game. They all have a sad story

 

[Tim Burke]

As much as people are sitting there saying "No bad guy here!" is some admission of guilt, lemme reframe this,

Reframe it all you like, that statement reflects what is going through the speaker's mind. Frequently, it indicates a guilty mind. An innocent person expects everyone to know he is innocent.

Another similar example may be found at this link.

 

[HOOfan_1]

IMO Mr. Homeless initiated the conversation, he was looking for something even if it was just a hand out, if the OP was "rude" to him then that is his problem, not the OPs.

 

[Tomcat47]

A few points I see from this thread!

Making conversation is one of the first steps of an attack! This is True!

I have been in similar situation...and by the end of it it I had a Fully drawn Beretta preventing a car jacking!

Then there is this from jcwit:

What in Heavens name has happened to this country.

My answer to that is Paranoia on both parties: Nowdays even the thugs are Paranoid (good thing)

Then there is this Quotable Quote from loosedhorse:

Words to live by. The world is what it is, not what we'd want it to be.

And that about sums it up!...........

Over the years working with the public in a stationary location, every year I see homeless, and other types that come looking for handouts...sometimes asking for odd jobs etc.

The soft side of me always caves in, and usually it ends bad! They either end up trying to steal while we are closed or it starts getting out of hand..they want money up front for work they will do, I dont really understand it sometimes...I know they dont really want no more out of life but a hand out, because they see you HAVE...they WANT!

I do not want to be the Paranoid person....but my family generally worries that one of them will eventually cross the line as I close up shop in the evening..for that I try to stay prepared!

But it is just back to that statement above...Its just not what we want it to be!

 

[Gtimothy]

Situational awareness....good job!

A+ from me too! As a retired Chief, I was all too familiar with the targeting of military personnel by nefarious individuals. I learned to trust my instincts a LONG time ago and it has served me well. You did exactly right by going on high alert and surveying the entire area when the guy approached. You were alone in a parking lot, away from witnesses and help so, you and you alone, were responsible for your safety.

Doesn't matter what the homeless guy was after...money, conversation, hug, whatever...if he gave you the impression that he was a threat, then he was a threat. Better safe than sorry!

Now I'm not saying that he was ready to attack you, but he obviously knew that you were not an easy mark! OH, and just because he says he's not a criminal, doesn't make it so.....my 2 1/2 cents.

 

[armedwalleye]

Paranoia?

For the OP, I'd prefer "situational awareness". I have a high distrust factor when approached by someone I don't know. If you're approaching me out of the blue and you've got business, state it from where you stand. If you see I've got a flat, or a burned out taillight, I'll give you a thank you and a wave, and I'll go about my business with my thanks to you and you can do the same.
Beware of someone who is approaching you what appears to be the intent to do you good. They seldom are.

OP, I think you did good. You and "the other guy" both walked away. He to wherever he'd come from, you back to your family. You passed the interview.

 

[Tomcat47]

^ And maybe the point I was after was paranoia is out there.....tin foil hats and all!.....

And it Should be Situational Awareness!

Thanks armedwalleye.........

There is common sense in situational awareness, and common sense escapes paranoia.

 

[freyasman]

Thank you all for your input; I am using this thread as a type of After Action Review, to see what I could "sustain" or "improve" in my actions. A number of people have talked about keeping him at a distance; I did maintain a distance I felt would give me time to react. You have to remember that while I was attempting to appear armed with a handgun, (perception), I actually was not, (reality). In a confrontation where I have a firearm, I want DISTANCE; without one I need a certain PROXIMITY, or I won't be able to use what I do have. If my bluff of having my hand on a gun failed, or he reached under his shirt-tail or into his pocket, I would need to close the gap VERY fast. The dynamics of a self-defense situation where I am armed with a handgun are very different than when I only have contact weapons. I have fought my way clear of a LOT of ambushes; "VIOLENCE OF ACTION" and "MOMENTUM" have kept me alive in some very bad places.

 

[freyasman]

Continuing; my assessment of him and his likely intentions was automatic and instinctual. I didn't think about it consciously until I was out of there, I was too busy watching HIM assess ME. My big SUV said "money, maybe a carjack if it looks good"; my uniform said "unarmed", (most likely, not ALL soldier's follow the rules!). But when he got closer he saw a man who APPEARED to be armed, alert, and was a decade or two older than the average GI, and who gave no appearance of being intimidated or alarmed at being in proximity to him. His attempt to make small talk was to give him time to reconcile the contradictions, and decide what to do. Ask for money? Demand money? Or just keep walking?

 

[Fred Fuller]

His attempt to make small talk was to give him time to reconcile the contradictions, and decide what to do. Ask for money? Demand money? Or just keep walking?

Understanding this process, and being able to see it in operation, is critical. One again, for those who haven't seen the material yet, go to

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/crime_is_a_process.htm
Crime is a Process

and

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/five_stages.html
Five Stages of Violent Crime

Also see http://www.teddytactical.com/archive/MonthlyStudy/2005/03_StudyDay.htm , particularly the part at Section C ii:

ii) Form a restraining judgment.
(1) The approach of a VCA means he is evaluating your fitness to serve as his target.
(2) You should engage in behavior that encourages him to redefine the circumstances and form a restraining judgment about continuing to see you as a viable target.
(3) This generally, only works in instrumentally motivated VCA.
(4) Remember he may be instrumental/expressive in motivation.
(5) Remember his life long learning pattern and use conduct he will recognize.
(a) Be breath taking in your effrontery.
(b) Ask direct questions designed to give you the information you need to make decisions.
i. 1/ Are you trying to block my way?
ii. 2/ Are you armed?
iii. 3/ anything other than an immediate and direct denial should be taken as a “yes”. Perhaps a qualified “yes”, but a “yes” nonetheless.

(c) Be charming, polite and comfortable in your delivery.
(d) This puts him on notice you recognize him for what he is and are not uncomfortable with the situation.
(e) Anxiety, arrogance and hesitation embolden him.
(f) Relaxed courtesy raises his anxiety and does not give him an excuse to shift to expressive motivation.
(g) If he expresses rage at your questions, remember he is probably looking for an excuse to shift to expressive motivation.
(h) Apologize as you are moving from the area.

(6) Remember this is a negotiation using interactive interpretation.
(7) Each of you is trying to gather information about the other in real-time to decide what the next course of action will be.
(8) Each of you is trying to form a restraining judgment in the other.
(a) His purpose is to lengthen your response time so his action beats your reaction. He is trying to get you to disbelieve the available evidence.
(b) Yours is to keep your action (not reaction) time intact as you gather sufficient information to confirm his intentions. Your action is pre-loaded.