Shear_stress
Member
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2005
- Messages
- 2,728
Is it possible your smith could have built the lower with a reduced power hammer spring?
Got my new AR, already having trouble.
- Thread starter Whitman31
- Start date
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I assembled the lower, and the parts are stock. The hammer comes forward with what should be plenty of force.
I just disassembled the bolt, didn't find much of interest. The firing pin appears straight. I cleaned it again and reassembled.
I just disassembled the bolt, didn't find much of interest. The firing pin appears straight. I cleaned it again and reassembled.
It sound like you may be having timing issues. I would first try some hand loads. I was using IMR 4350 with 155g Palma bullits in my AR-10. The cycling seemed slugish and it did not always pick up the next round. I switched to IMR 4064, loaded to 2600fps.My rifle cycles very crisply and every round chambers perfectly. My point here is that the cycle of an AR type rifle of any calibre can be manipulated somewhat by the load that is used.
Another posibility that is much more scarry, is that the gas port may have been drilled in the wrong location. I am assuming that the port was drilled by the maker and therefore it is not likley, but due to the human factor, it is still posible for a descrepency to slip past QC. I would not worry about the port untill all other posibilities are proven out.
Another posibility that is much more scarry, is that the gas port may have been drilled in the wrong location. I am assuming that the port was drilled by the maker and therefore it is not likley, but due to the human factor, it is still posible for a descrepency to slip past QC. I would not worry about the port untill all other posibilities are proven out.
Dagunner...
Did you read any of the posts before you spewed that? I find it hard to believe that by trying some different handloads it will change the firing pin's inability to strike the primer with enought force to ignite. And the gas port being drilled in the wrong place? I guess that could be a problem, but I made it pretty clear a number of times that the cycling of the action is not an issue...:banghead:
It's all good info for a totally different problem...
Did you read any of the posts before you spewed that? I find it hard to believe that by trying some different handloads it will change the firing pin's inability to strike the primer with enought force to ignite. And the gas port being drilled in the wrong place? I guess that could be a problem, but I made it pretty clear a number of times that the cycling of the action is not an issue...:banghead:
It's all good info for a totally different problem...
ny32182
Member
A common mistake in lower assembly is to allow the bottom "feet" of the hammer spring to rest down in the bottom of the lower. This is incorrect; they need to be resting on/above the trigger pin in order to give the proper momentum to the hammer. Intermittent failures to fire/light primer strikes are the *exact* problem generated by this common error in lower assembly. I would first recommend checking the positioning of that spring. Here is a picture:
Note how the leg of the hammer spring rests of top of the trigger pin.
As far as the extraction/ejection, you stated you were removing factory grease. What you want to do if you haven't already is completely dissassemble the bolt carrier group. Remove the bolt, cam pin, firing pin, and pull the extractor off the bolt. Use a pipe cleaner to swab the firing pin channel in the bolt. Make sure there isn't any gunk in or under the extractor. Most importantly, use Hoppes soaked Qtips to swab out the interior of the bolt carrier (the hole where the bolt goes). It is very important to make sure that that area is free of factory gunk if it came with it. Reassemble the bolt carrier group, and apply lots of lube to the interior of the carrier. I give a decent shot of Breakfree into the interior through the cam pin hole when reassembing all my ARs, even the ones that have been broken in. Once reassembled, push the bolt down into the locked position, and press on the back of the firing pin to make sure it is moving freely and that it protrudes from the bolt face. You will need to pull the bolt back out into its unlocked position to reassemble the rifle.
Use hoppes soaked Qtips to clean out the area in the upper between the locking lugs and chamber opening... make sure it is free of factory gunk.
If these areas are clean and the lower is assembled correctly, you should have a very reliable rifle. If you do not, there is a considerably greater mechanical issue at play.
Note how the leg of the hammer spring rests of top of the trigger pin.
As far as the extraction/ejection, you stated you were removing factory grease. What you want to do if you haven't already is completely dissassemble the bolt carrier group. Remove the bolt, cam pin, firing pin, and pull the extractor off the bolt. Use a pipe cleaner to swab the firing pin channel in the bolt. Make sure there isn't any gunk in or under the extractor. Most importantly, use Hoppes soaked Qtips to swab out the interior of the bolt carrier (the hole where the bolt goes). It is very important to make sure that that area is free of factory gunk if it came with it. Reassemble the bolt carrier group, and apply lots of lube to the interior of the carrier. I give a decent shot of Breakfree into the interior through the cam pin hole when reassembing all my ARs, even the ones that have been broken in. Once reassembled, push the bolt down into the locked position, and press on the back of the firing pin to make sure it is moving freely and that it protrudes from the bolt face. You will need to pull the bolt back out into its unlocked position to reassemble the rifle.
Use hoppes soaked Qtips to clean out the area in the upper between the locking lugs and chamber opening... make sure it is free of factory gunk.
If these areas are clean and the lower is assembled correctly, you should have a very reliable rifle. If you do not, there is a considerably greater mechanical issue at play.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Have you tried running a pipe cleaner through the firing pin hole of the bolt? Also, holding the bolt carrier in your hand, with the bolt pushed to the locked position, have you tried pushing on the firing pin with your thumb to see what kind of protrusion you are getting?
NY
Thanks for the great info. I am aware of the need for the hammer spring to rest against the trigger pin, but there is definatly the posibility that I screwed it up at one point or another. When I get home today I'll double check.
Over my lunch hour today I stripped the bolt down again and gave it a bath in gunscrubber. I lubed, reassembled, and then lubed again. I put the bolt in the upper and moved it to the locked position. The firing pin is now moving very freely. I can't say I checked it before my cleaning so I didn't learn much yet.
I really feel I've got it narrowed down now, everything is clear of factory residue and moving freely. I plan on getting down to the range again tonight to retest. If it doesn't function properly tonight I'll be heading to the gunsmith to check chamber dimensions. I'll take a second firing pin with tonight to check that posibility.
Thanks for the great info. I am aware of the need for the hammer spring to rest against the trigger pin, but there is definatly the posibility that I screwed it up at one point or another. When I get home today I'll double check.
Over my lunch hour today I stripped the bolt down again and gave it a bath in gunscrubber. I lubed, reassembled, and then lubed again. I put the bolt in the upper and moved it to the locked position. The firing pin is now moving very freely. I can't say I checked it before my cleaning so I didn't learn much yet.
I really feel I've got it narrowed down now, everything is clear of factory residue and moving freely. I plan on getting down to the range again tonight to retest. If it doesn't function properly tonight I'll be heading to the gunsmith to check chamber dimensions. I'll take a second firing pin with tonight to check that posibility.
I have cleaned the bolt, aside from removing the extractor, ejector, and gas rings. I've checked that the firing pin does protrude past the bolt face, it doesn't look like a lot, but the round that have fired show a nice dimple so it should be correct. If anyone has a measurement for how far the firing pin should protrude from the bolt face that number would be useful.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
For a military M16, the proper firing pin protrusion range is .0280" to .0360". I don't know if the .204 Ruger uses the same range or not.
ny32182
Member
Is the .204 just a necked .223 case? Just curious...
George Hill
Member
An AR with problems?
"Oh now there's a surprise! I could have a heart attack and die, from that surprise!"
"Oh now there's a surprise! I could have a heart attack and die, from that surprise!"
George Hill
Member
It's actually a .222 necked down. 
blackhawk2000
member
C,mon. It's an off caliber frankenbuild, half put together by a non-gunsmith.
I'm not saying you did anything wrong, but it is most definately not your run of the mill AR. It's like a custom built car. You just expect some problems, when you fire it up the first time.
orionengnr
Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2005
- Messages
- 5,709
Yep.
I've read about .204 and 6.8 ARs, but never seen either in action.
Not exactly a fair indictment of the AR design, by any objective measure.
To be honest, I've grown to expect better from THR mods.
No offense intended, and if I missed your someow, my apologies.
Edited to add...I'm not a mod basher, please check my posts...
I've read about .204 and 6.8 ARs, but never seen either in action.
Not exactly a fair indictment of the AR design, by any objective measure.
To be honest, I've grown to expect better from THR mods.
No offense intended, and if I missed your
someow, my apologies.Edited to add...I'm not a mod basher, please check my posts...
On a side note, I didn't expect this gun to be flawless, and judging by all the "my AR doesn't work" threads seen around here, neither should someone who buys one complete. It's a finicky design, but thats part of the fun.
I'm happy with my gun, I've always been happy with it...
I'm happy with my gun, I've always been happy with it...
That's why nearly every top-tier special forces unit in the world, even those that can choose their weapons from the whole menu, have picked this design. It's solely and uniformly to amuse you and provide smugness when one single gun, assembled with non-milspec parts, doesn't work quite right.
Eightball
Member
Cool. Now that it functions well, please report back with a range report--I am curious to see how one of these .204 ARs performs.
I don't have the pics yet, but at 100 you could cover the 5 shot group with a nickel. At 200 it opened up a bit more than I like, but I was struggleing with the trigger creep, I don't want to post anything official until I have the trigger where I want it.
I saw zero elevation change between 100 and 200, I know that's not possible, but it was still a little impressive.
I absolutly destroyed a 20oz water bottle, 1/2 of the bottle was never recovered. The half we found was about 6 yards forward from the post we set it on.
The recoil was non-existant, easily able to remain on target. Even with the scope maxed at 20X.
I'll post pics tonight of the gun and paper.
I saw zero elevation change between 100 and 200, I know that's not possible, but it was still a little impressive.
I absolutly destroyed a 20oz water bottle, 1/2 of the bottle was never recovered. The half we found was about 6 yards forward from the post we set it on.
The recoil was non-existant, easily able to remain on target. Even with the scope maxed at 20X.
I'll post pics tonight of the gun and paper.
Range Follow-Up
Well, I replaced my hammer spring with one out of another gun.
We went to the range again today and the results were great. No fail-to-fires, no jams. Excellent groups. It was raining and all out targets got wrecked so no pictures. But thanks to all for the feedback...
Well, I replaced my hammer spring with one out of another gun.
We went to the range again today and the results were great. No fail-to-fires, no jams. Excellent groups. It was raining and all out targets got wrecked so no pictures. But thanks to all for the feedback...
ny32182
Member
Good deal; so your first spring was just that badly out of spec? That has got to be pretty rare...
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