Problem with AR-15

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slohand

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Feb 14, 2006
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Vale, North Carolina
I'm having a problem with my new DPMS AR-15. For the past three sessions, it has fired flawlessly through the first magazine. However, after the second or third round of a second magazine, it will fail to extract the fired cartridge while, at the same time, attempting to load the next round.

I have thoroughly cleaned and lubricated the rifle. The problem occurs with multiple ammo brands and with both metal and plastic magazines.

Would appreciate your comments/ideas.
 
I had FTEs with my rifle when I first got it (RRA). Lasted through several sessions. Never did figure out exactly what was causing it but it only happened with the Wolf stuff. It has stopped now and the only thing I can think of is that I finally got the chamber clean enough. I didn't clean it prior to shooting it the first time and I ran a bunch of rounds through rapid fire. First mag was good but after that FTEs in a 1:10 ratio.
 
Is this a new problem or has this been a problem as long as you've had the firearm?
What's the approx rd count through it?
 
Please give details on the model of rifle and the brands/types of ammo and magazines. Yes, I saw the statement below. It could still be an issue relating to some feature of the various ammo or mags you're using. As for the rifle, what's the barrel length and the buttstock type?

I have thoroughly cleaned and lubricated the rifle. The problem occurs with multiple ammo brands and with both metal and plastic magazines.
 
I've only taken the rifle to the range 3 times now and have had the same exact problem each time.

I've only fired about 100 rounds through it because of the jamming.
 
OK, if I am reading this right, you are getting a failure to extract after the rifle gets lightly warmed up and a tiny bit dirty. This happens across multiple brands of ammo and magazines.

My first question would be - what specific types of ammo are you using? Brass cased or steel cased?

Second question: What does the case that failed to extract look like? Is there a chunk missing from the rim or the rim is bent?
 
The rifle is a DPMS AP4 16" carbine. It has an AP4 6-position stock.

The problem has occurred with both DPMS and Tapco 30 round magazines loaded wit Remington UMC 55 grain, Lake City 55 grain and Federal 55 grain ammo.

The cases that have failed to extract show no markings and have no chunks missing.
 
Some thoughts:
#1 I think your extractor is either damaged or has too little tension. I would field strip and then take the extractor off the bolt. Clean any dirt you see. Inspect the extractor carefully for any chips missing or any rounding. It's possible a stiffer extractor spring would fix the problem, but doing that alone is a bit of a kludge.
#2 It's quite possible your chamber is rough and making extraction more difficult
#3 You have a 16" barrel with carbine gas, which is inherently somewhat harder on extraction, and because it's a DPMS chances are you have a fairly large gas port and a standard carbine buffer, possibly with a weak buffer spring too. It's possible that a heavier buffer (H or H2) and a quality buffer spring would fix the issue, especially in combination with a stiffer extractor spring or Crane o-ring on the extractor.
#4 although I doubt your magazines are the problem, TAPCO gen 1 AR mags aren't very good, and DPMS will depend who makes them (if it's D&H they're fine, if it's CP or unknown they may not be). Get at least one or two Magpul Pmags to try out as well - they are consistently quality mags. But, again, I don't think this is a mag problem.
 
It sounds like the bolt is trying to extract before the brass has shrunk away from the chamber walls. As a result, the brass is still "sticky" and your extractor is slipping off the rim. The rifle works for the first magazine because there is less heat build-up so the brass shrinks away from the chamber faster. As the heat builds up, this process becomes less efficient.

There are two basic issues here:
1. Your extractor is too weak for the current timing of the rifle.
2. Your timing may be less than the optimum.

First step I would recommend is buying a $6 extractor upgrade kit. This will give you a stronger extractor spring and a O-ring to help prevent extractor lift. You may also want to look at the extractor itself and make sure it looks clean and in good shape - not rounded or worn.

Second step would be the timing... typically, timing issues are a result of improper gas port and/or chamber specs for the type of ammunition being used. I would bet a few gallons of gas that your chamber is not cut to 5.56 NATO specs. If not then, hitting it with a 5.56mm chamber reamer will improve reliability but may reduce accuracy.

An easy way to help with timing issues is to use a heavier buffer and/or a stronger action spring. Given what you are describing here, I'd try an H2 buffer, which should run under $40.

If you are on a budget and have the time, I'd try the extractor upgrade first. If you continue to have problems, go with an H2 buffer. If you still have problems at that point, you'll want to gauge the chamber and mic the gas port to get a better idea of what is going on. Alternatively, since it is a new AP4, you can just send it back to DPMS and let them deal with it - just be sure none of your fixes void the warranty if you decide to go that route.
 
I agree with Mr. Roberts. A proper extractor with an adequate spring will tear a signifigant chunk out of the rim before it slips off. I recently worked on a customer's new rifle that, apparently, had the extractor groove cut too shallow - it would slip off with a good spring and not mark the cases. A new extractor, with a proper spring fixed it.
Follow the steps Mr. Roberts described and let us know which one solves it.
 
Mr. Michigan and Mr. Roberts gave great advice.
If you bought the rifle new, you may try calling DPMS to see what there're willing to do to help (they may supply some free parts).
 
I had a rifle that behaved a lot like the one described by the OP. A new Daniel Defense BCG solved everything. Yes, it was overkill, but I wanted a better BCG anyway and I had a coupon at Midway USA. :D
 
New rifle? DPMS? Call DPMS. Do not pay for anything without calling them first. You used their mag and commercial ammo, so you did your part. Might have the rifle in front of you when you call.

Lee
 
Normally I would agree with calling the manufactuer. However in this case all they are going to do is replace the DPMS parts with DPMS parts which really wont' fix anything in the long run.

ZeroDefect was on the right path. I would just replace the bolt and call it good.
 
Try the extractor upgrade kit from BCM (Bravo Company Manufacturing). If that doesn't work then try the H2 buffer. The extractor kit is about $6. The buffer is about $40 (I think).
 
If you buy a heavier buffer, also buy a new spring. They only run $4-5 and while you can't see the difference, a spring from someone like BCM is going to be consistently high quality, while you can't really know what DPMS is using or selling, and they may change suppliers week by week. Just a standard spring from a company you can trust is all you need - nothing special or fancy.
 
Since it is a new gun I'd send it back. But, if ya want to play with it, wet that bolt carrier down with oil. I mean wet it. You want to see oil fly when you shoot those first few rounds. What you are describing is a slight short stoke problem. The bolt is not coming back far enough to eject the round, but is picking up a round as it moves forward. Try this and see if it works. The gun might just need breaking in. If this doesn't work, send it back. Why void the warranty spending money to fix it?
 
He buys a brand new car and the engine won't run when it gets warmed up.
And you guys are telling him to buy a new engine.
Of course, you guys aren't paying for it so what do you care.





He bought a new gun.
It's on warranty.
Let DPMS deal with it.

Never let a manufacturer off the hook.
Not when they have your money and the gun won't shoot right.

(Just make sure you cleaned and lubricated properly. That's your job.)
 
The problem in this case is that he purchased from a company with a long history of putting out bad products. Any warranty work is just going to replace the sub par parts with more sub par parts. Not an Ideal solution at all. Yes he can go through that whole process. Or he can fix or replace the bolt with one that actually works and call it a lesson learned.

I went through the DPMS shuffle for years. Trust me. His best bet is to sell the entire thing off to someone else and replace it. Failing that he can replace the bolt and hope that helps.
 
He buys a brand new car and the engine won't run when it gets warmed up.
And you guys are telling him to buy a new engine.
Of course, you guys aren't paying for it so what do you care.

He bought a new gun.
It's on warranty.
Let DPMS deal with it.

Never let a manufacturer off the hook.
Not when they have your money and the gun won't shoot right.

(Just make sure you cleaned and lubricated properly. That's your job.)

It's just DPMS being DPMS. Nothing new to see here.....move along. :D

Someone brings me a DPMS to fix: I pull the bolt carrier group out and toss it in the lake. If I'm in a better mood, or at the range, I'll hang it on my target stand to finish it off good.

If I want to be really detailed. I'll hang it on my target stand to be put to death by "firing squad", throw it in the lake, then shoot the lake.

DPMS failed to put the bolt together with the right parts the first time. They aren't going to get it right on the second try. They may decide to screw something else up entirely and then return a rifle to the shooter that's even worse. (aka: "Pulling a Kimber")

Happens all the time. If it's a simple fix like the BCM extractor kit, that's probally the safest route to go. If that deosn't work, then put the DPMS parts back in and send it back.
 
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