Got my new press Monday, What's wrong?

[ar10]

I just started reloading and got my press yesterday. Here's what I have:
Hornady Lock-n-Load single stage press.

Hornady 7th edition reloading manual, and the Winchester powder manual.
Here's how I did it and the problem:
started my first batch to de-cap this afternoon. The sizing/decap die worked fine and I got about 50 cases decapped then things started getting a little dicey. I notice the cases were getting harder to decap even though I was using 1 shot lube and rolling each case in the saturated towel. Well, ended up with the dreaded stuck case. In fact the case got de primed then when I started to drop the ram the case pulled right thru the shell holder.
I pulled the die then unscrewed the decapping pin then I took a brass punch and knocked the case out. I check to see if the neck sizer was damaged and it wasn't so I decided to try it once more. It worked perfectly for 3 cases then the same thing happened again.
Anyone have any clues on what I'm doing wrong????

(the lube I'm using is what came with the press. It's 1-shot spray can. I lay the cases on a clean towel then spray them and roll them on the towel a couple of times. There's hardly any friction until I get 2/3 the way down then it gets harder to press. I push the case in then start to extract it. That's when the case gets stuck and as I pull it back down the case just "strips" thru the shell holder getting stuck in the die. )

 

[xtarheel]

I use spray lube with no problem. My guess is you are lubing the case and then wiping the lube off on the towel. Try spraying the cases in a loading block and then resize. The only time I roll them on a pad is when I use liquid lube.

 

[langenc]

"2/3 the way down" is when the problem occurs?? So the "down part" is on the case coming out of the die or going in (press arm going down?)

Perhaps you need lube inside the case neck to reduce expander plug. On the other hand I doubt any neck expander ever pulled a case out of the shellholder??

 

[Spartacus451]

Isn't the recommended method of application for one shot to spray it directly on the case? Sounds like not enough case lube.

 

[USSR]

ar10,

I would bet if you polled all the guys who have stuck a case in their die, you would find 9 out of 10 were using One Shot. What does that tell you? Get yourself some Imperial Sizing Die Wax and never look back.

Don

 

[David Wile]

Hey AR,

Xtarheel has the right idea. The only reason cases stick in sizing dies is because they were not lubed enough. I used to lube cases the old fashioned way by rolling them on a lube pad. That is still a good way to get cases lubed evenly on the outside and avoid getting them stuck, but those lubes are a lot of work to remove after the sizing process is done. Modern spray lubes are a lot easier to clean off cases after sizing, but you do have to make sure you spray all of the cases fairly evenly. Like Xtarheel said, stand them in a loading block and then spray them all around before resizing.

To make it easier to expand the neck after sizing bottle neck cases, I prepare the cases by running a wire bore brush in each neck. I put some old fashioned case pad lue on the bore brush to do this. I don't soak the bore brush with lube, I just put a few "drops" around the brush to transfer some lube to the inside of the case neck. The bore brush cleans dirt from the inside of the case nect while it also deposits a small amount of lube to the inside of the neck. When used sparingly, the lube will be removed by the expander button and not harm the powder.

You are lucky you were able to remove the stuck case without a stuck case remover. We all make mistakes, and you may need a stuck case remover some day. I doubt very much if using a brass rod to remove your stuck case would hurt your die in any way.

Nothing wrong with spray lube. Just don't remove it after putting it on the cases. Did your instructions tell you to roll them in a towell after spraying them with the lube? I never heard of that, and it doesn't make sense to me.

Best wishes.
Dave Wile

 

[Ol` Joe]

2/3 down the case is when the die and case start to make contact. The taper of most rifle cases doesn`t allow them to contact the die until you are almost to the bottom of the ram travel.
The others have it right. You need more lube. Don`t wipe the brass after spraying and if I remember right the spray lubes need a few minutes to dry before sizeing also. I personally prefer Imperial wax but any of the lubes made for case sizeing should work if applied properly.

 

[mkl]

I think you are wiping off the lube before it has a chance to dry on the case.

Stand the cases up 50 at a time in your loading tray. Spray with One Shot holding the can at about a 45 degree angle above the tray. (That gets it into the inside of the neck also) Rotate the tray 360 degrees while you are spraying so as to cover all sides of the case.

Let the stuff dry for about five minutes.

Size & decap.

Wipe with towel to remove lube.

I've used One Shot lube off and on for years without a problem.

P.S. Shake the can well since One Shot is a suspension, not a solution.

 

[rcmodel]

I don't like getting my loading blocks all funked up with sizing lube.

Besides, spraying them in a loading block doesn't get lube all over them because one end or the other is covered by the loading block.
And total coverage is a most important part of lubing them!

I dump my cases in an old mixing bowl and spray lightly, then stir them around with my hand, then spray lightly again.
Continue to stir them around in the bowl while the spray solvent dries.

I then leave some lube on my hand and give each case a wipe again as I pick it up to make sure none have too much lube on them.

I have never stuck a case using One-Shot, and I have used it since it came on the market many years ago.

It works perfectly great if you just use it right!

rcmodel

 

[30Cal]

One Shot. Yep. It works for some people, but IME, it's very tempermental.

 

[Asherdan]

I'm like rcmodel, the one-shot works fine for me but I don't like getting it everywhere. I keep a 12x12x4 cardboard box for spraying 'em down. Give 'em a good spray, tilt the box so they rotate and spray again. If it builds up in droplets on the case you've sprayed more than necessary, you just want to give 'em a film. I spray the cases and set the box aside and set up my size/deprime die to give 'em drying time.

 

[SDC]

To lube rifle cases, I find it easier to stand them up on a sheet of newspaper, then sweep across them with the spray lube; one spray from each side seems to work fine for me.

 

[Shoney]

The first question that should have been asked here is:
What case are you reloading?

Straight wall cases will do OK with spray lubes, but I will wager you are loaading a bottleneck cartridge. After 48 years of reloading, having tried every commercial lube and lots of home brew, the only lube I use is Imperial Sizing Die Wax.

 

[kelbro]

I have used the one-shot for thousands of cases and never had one stick.

I shake the can well, shoot them in the loading block at about a 45 degree angle from both sides, let them dry for at least 3-5 of minutes. One quick wipe of the loading block afterwards is all that it takes to clean it up.

Imperial is great stuff but since buying the first can of one-shot, I haven't felt the need to use it for regular sizing.

 

[ar10]

Well I had two more since I posted. Same problem but I did learn something.
1. don't spray too much. (I didn't let it dry either)
2. spray one shot while in the holder works much better.
3. DON'T force it.
4. If I can't sit down and cycle the ram then I have a problem.
5. CHECK the cases. I found a number of them with neck "dings".
6. I also found the mil spec ammo won't use the same pin depth as the commercial ammo. It presses fine but it stays in the shell holder.

One thing I did do, (because I'm desperate) is I got some of the RCBS lube/pad. It's messy as hell but 50 cases I just finished went thru without a hitch. Not sure how I'm going to clean them yet.
I also use some of the one shot while in the holder and that seemed to work much better for the first 10 cases. I'm going to try the putting them in a box and spray then let dry next.
At least I don't have to get a new die. Think I'll write a book "How to Screw Up Reloading".
Thanks

 

[ftierson]

If you used the RCBS Case Lube II, just clean it up by washing the cases in hot, soapy water (since it's water soluble)...

That's what I do...



Forrest

 

[mkl]

Were all of your stuck cases military?

If so, is it possible they may have been fired in a machine gun before you acquired them for reloading?

Reason for asking is that I seem to remember reading that machine gun chambers are slightly larger than those on a rifle. If true, part of your problems may be oversize brass which requires much more pressure to size down to SAMMI dimensions.

 

[ar10]

mkl:
No. At least as far as I know. I know they were an 81 issue milsurp.
Ftierson:
Thanks, I'll do that. Yes I am using the II, and I'll wash them when I'm done. I'm also finding there's an "art" to lubing these things. If you press into the pad to hard I see the evenly spaced dimples right at the neck. The first indication is the case is hard to release, then when it comes out I can see the dimples. Other than that it's going very smoothly now.
Once I get this part done, including any trimming, is to get this powder dispenser adjusted to 42 grains. The scale seems pretty accurate and it should only take a pound of powder to get it adjusted

 

[Rat-Man]

ar10

you said.

1. don't spray too much. (I didn't let it dry either).

You have to let spray lube dry before sizing, doesn't matter what the brand if you try to size right after spraying, you will get a lot of stuck cases. Try it and see what happens.

Rat-Man

 

[David Wile]

Hey AR,

You just started loading, and you started with a progressive press, and you are trying different things with the case lubing process. The problems you are having are compounded by trying to learn the reloading process on a progressive press. I would suggest trying to start your learning process by using your L&L press in a single stage manner. By that, I mean size all your cases first, then prime all your cases, then charge them, then seat the bullets. Start by taking all the things out but the sizing and depriming die and size all your cases.

From what you said, it seems you are spraying the case after you place it in the shell plate. Then you said you got a lube pad and were getting lube dents in the necks. Stop for a moment and take a breath. If you have a lube pad, try using the lube pad and forget about the spray until you have mastered lubing with the pad. This is not a bad thing to learn.

Your lube dents in the necks are common when you put too much lube on the case. I spread some lube on the pad with my fingers, and you don't want too much on or it will put too much on the cases. Then put eight or ten cases on the lube pad and roll them back and forth a few time to get lube on them evenly. When rolling the cases, I generally press down on the cases near the necks to insure the necks are lubed completely. If you do it properly, you will have a film of lube all around the case from the mouth down most of the case. You don't need too much lube near the bottom of the case, but there should be some.

If you get lube dents, don't worry about it. They will shoot out just fine. It simply means you had too much lube on the case. Don't press as hard on the cases when rolling them on the lube pad next time. Before long, you will figure out how to lube cases just right with a lube pad. Then you should be ready to learn how to use the spray lubes. I like the convenience of the spray lubes, but the lube pad is a lot less expensive to use.

Once you learn the basics of loading bottleneck cartridges, then you can start putting all the processes together in your progressive press and make one cartridge with each cycle of the handle. It would seem that you really do need to slow down and figure out how to do each step properly.

Some folks have trouble priming with the L&L, and it could be a problem for you. I have an L&L, and the primer works just fine for me. I took a lot of time figuring out how the primer works, and I found out that mine seems to work best with a dry lubricant such as graphite. You will also likely learn that the last one or two primers in the tube may not feed properly. If that is the case, you need to get a wooden dowel to fit inside the tube with markings on it to show when you are getting down to the last five or six primers.

I wish you had started on a single stage press, but your L&L is a good progressive and will treat you right if you learn how to use it properly.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

 

[DEDON45]

David Wile, look again; he is using a single stage LnL press (easy mistake to make, as most folks say LnL and Progressive or AP when posting here; I'm considering getting one as a companion to my progressive LnL press... for small rifle batches, etc.)

Try Unique case lube; I just rub some on with my fingers (small quantities of rifle brass here)... works good.

 

[jenrob]

You just started loading, and you started with a progressive press, and you are trying different things with the case lubing process. The problems you are having are compounded by trying to learn the reloading process on a progressive press.

He's not useing a progressive.

I have used one shot for some time without getting a case stuck.

I use imperial on my mag. cases just cause it is smoother.

When you spray the one shot make sure you continue to shack the can.

I have a couple of the plastic MTM holders that I use for spraying cases. This way I don't have to try getting every speck of lube off of my good loading blocks

 

[callgood]

Another One Shot user. I use a cookie sheet (with sides not one of the flat sheets). I fill it about 3/4s full of brass spray them and roll them back and forth to even things out. Let them dry a couple of minutes and shimmy the sheet around to move them around. Dry another couple of minutes.

One thing I do is sort my brass by mfg. This came in handy when I got my Square Deal and some of them started sticking in the belling station. Turns out it was isolated to certain brands (MRP, S&B, IIRC). A little One Shot inside the mouths solved the problem. If I had been loading mixed brass Iwould have gone nuts trying to find out the answer.

 

[mewachee]

I use one shot, has always worked great. I first tried some other product, and found that if I had to much on the case, it would build up in the die. Eventually, the neck would wrinkle.

I have use one shot on a couple thousand reloads, never a problem.

 

[David Wile]

Hey folks,

I now remember that AR indicated in his beginning post that he is using a L&L single stage press. As discussion progressed on the thread, I simply forgot it was the single stage press. AR sounds like he is getting frustrated, and I was thinking his using an L&L progressive press was not helping the matter. I'm sorry I forgot it was the single stage press, but I think a couple of my suggestions may still be useful to him.

I also like to use the spray lube, but since he has purchased an old fashioned lube pad and started to use it, I think it would be a good idea if he learned how to use the lube pad and get to the point where he could size cases without getting cases stuck and without getting lube dents. At that point, I think he should again try his spray lube, and I think his experience with the lube pad will help him learn how to use the lube spray properly. It will also allow him to use a lube pad with confidence if the time comes when he has no lube spray available for a while. As I said earlier, a lube pad is cheaper than spray lube.

When using spray lube, I also put my cases in a plastic block and spray from both sides. Before spraying, however, I use a bore brush with some pad lube on it to clean the inside of the case necks and put a little lube on the inside of the necks. I have always found this to be very effective when sizing bottleneck cases. Like the other folks, I also let the lube dry a few minutes before sizing.

When it comes to removing lube after sizing, I do something most folks do not care to do. I use gasoline to wash the lube off empty sized cases and dry them in a towel. If using the progressive press, I simply take the finished round and wash it in gasoline before drying on a towel. I then use a vibratory cleaner to shine the cases of the finished rounds. For those who are worried, I use less than a quart of gas at a time, and when finished, I put the gas back in a sealed can for future use. It's not expensive and it's no more dangerous than working with gun powder.

AR, you have a nice single stage press, and I would encourage you to take your time and work out the kinks. All of us have had and still do make lube dents in our cases from time to time. Take your time and learn by trial and error how much lube you need to use to size your cases without getting them stuck or getting lube dents. The correct amount of lube falls between the stuck case and the lube dent.

I would also suggest you learn how to prime cases properly with your L&L single stage press. Once you have learned to do that with the press, you may want to try priming cases with a hand primer instead of the single stage press. I primed on my RockChucker for many years before I tried a Lee Auto Prime hand tool. Once I tried it, I have used one ever since for my single stage reloading. As I said before, with my progressive press, I find the priming function to work very well for me.

Good luck AR, and again I am sorry I forgot your L&L press was the single stage version. I have had my RockChucker since the late 1960s, but I think I would just as soon have your L&L single stage press.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile