Gotta get it off my chest AR-15 vs. Mini-14

[stchman]

Ok, so I need to vent here a little bit to the AR-15 elitists.

I get so tired of hearing the AR-15 elitists talk about what an uber rifle the AR-15 is and how bad Mini-14s suck.

For the rest of the thread I am referring to the 580 series.

At 100 yards I cannot tell a big difference in accuracy in a Mini-14. The AR might be a touch more accurate but not much.

Now the one thing the AR has is the ability to buy cheap good mags while the Ruger mags are the only ones that work real good.

- ARs cost significantly more.
- ARs are far pickier about ammo than a Mini-14. Yes I can shoot Wolf, Brown Bear, and the more expensive brass stuff as well.
- The Mini-14 has an action based on the M1 Garand (a very proven action)
- Mini-14s are definitely more durable with the ARs plastic construction.
- Mini-14s can be cleaned and oiled with anything, ARs users fuss over lubricants and solvents
- Mini-14 are gas piston while ARs are the dirtier DI variety, after I fire 100 rounds in my Mini the bolt and bolt carrier are still clean.

To all the AR folks, if you wish to spend $500 more on a rifle that is your prerogative. AR folks feel the need to justify their purchase by bashing other peoples rifles.

Another thing, I love how the AR community is pimping the gas piston as some new revalation. The SKS and AK-47 have been using gas piston design for over 50 years. The M1 Garand has had a piston type design for over 70 years.

Just my rant.

 

[jglcolosprgs]

 

[R.W.Dale]

- ARs cost significantly more.

I disagree, a new mini is getting into the upper $600 range. You can in fact buy a nice ar for under $200 more

- ARs are far pickier about ammo than a Mini-14. Yes I can shoot Wolf, Brown Bear, and the more expensive brass stuff as well.

Have you actually shot an ar with this ammo? Both my 7.62x39 and my 223 AR's have digested ANYTHING Ive crammed in the mag just fine

- The Mini-14 has an action LOOSELY BASED based on the M1 Garand (a very proven action)

fixed that

- Mini-14s are definitely more durable with the ARs plastic construction.

Yeah because MINI's have been world renound for the past HALF CENTURY as the firearm of choice militaries for the free world. OH WAIT that's the AR. MINIS fail in carbine courses almost without exception. and even if so try buying a bolt for a mini without sending it back to Ruger

- Mini-14s can be cleaned and oiled with anything, ARs users fuss over lubricants and solvents

are you serious

- Mini-14 are gas piston while ARs are the dirtier DI variety, after I fire 100 rounds in my Mini the bolt and bolt carrier are still clean.

and yet how many rounds miss a 8' target at 100

To all the mini folks, if you wish to spend $200 less on a rifle that is inferior in every aspect your perrogative. MINI folks feel the need to justify their purchase by bashing other peoples rifles in threads such as this on.

fixed that again

 

[Al Thompson]

True, but until Ruger released their magazines, the AR was cost effective when you included the cost of the magazines.

I'd love to see a 6.8 or 6.5 Mini-14.

 

[cameron.personal]

Sounds like the OP has a little case on AR envy...

Cameron

 

[stchman]

Al I ever hear the AR folks complain that their precious AR will only shoot brass cased ammo while Wolf and Brown Bear jam it up.

Ruger maks a 6.8 SPC Mini-14.

http://www.ruger.com/products/mini14AllWeatherRanchRifle/specSheets/5814.html


If you look at the price of a piston AR they start at about $1100. DI ARs are in the $800 price range on the low end.

 

[stchman]

No, if I wanted an AR I would have bought an AR. I guess I am just not elitest enough.

 

[Shear_stress]

No, if I wanted an AR I would have bought an AR. I guess I am just not elitest enough.

"Elitest" or not, you add absolutely nothing to the debate by bashing the rifles and the people that own them. You could've taken the high road by acknowledging the merits of the AR and Mini and the disadvantages of both. But, no, you chose to fight a pissing contest with a pissing contest. Well done.

 

[Justin]

- ARs cost significantly more.

Not all of them, and if you really do compare the pricier AR's that have things like float tubes in them, they are noticeably more accurate. Sure, at 100 yards, both will probably perform well, but how about at 200? 300? 400? 500? 600?

- ARs are far pickier about ammo than a Mini-14. Yes I can shoot Wolf, Brown Bear, and the more expensive brass stuff as well.

A generalization that may or may not be substantiated depending on the make of the AR and the ammunition. I've seen guys run Wolf ammo through AR's without problem.

- The Mini-14 has an action based on the M1 Garand (a very proven action)

The AR action has, at this point, been in service longer than the action for the Garand.

- Mini-14s are definitely more durable with the ARs plastic construction.

I've seen no proof of this, especially given some of the treatment I've dealt out to my AR's.

- Mini-14s can be cleaned and oiled with anything, ARs users fuss over lubricants and solvents

I use whatever I happen to have on hand to lube my AR's. Usually the Brownell's stuff. I don't fuss over it. A number of heavy-duty 3gun shooters I know lube their AR's with 5W30.

- Mini-14 are gas piston while ARs are the dirtier DI variety, after I fire 100 rounds in my Mini the bolt and bolt carrier are still clean.

*shrugs* Cleaning an AR is no picnic, but I've not seen proof that the direct impingement system in the AR platform is all that unreliable, and this includes shooting nearly 500 rounds of .223 through an AR (a "target" one no less!) over the course of three days with no cleaning, and in situations that included 30 mph winds whipping up dust, sand and grit. On top of that, I've fired a couple of examples of AR's that have sound suppressors on them, and with all of the crap that got blown back into the action and caked inside of it, the rifles continued to run.

 

[stchman]

The weapon that has been world renowned over the globe has been the AK-47.

Colonel David Hackworth (RIP) said that the AK-47 is the weapon the US troops should be using in Vietnam not an M-16.

While the M-16 is a far more accurate rifle than an AK-47 it is definitely chosen over the M-16 the world over.

I can see this thread is going to get way of topic.

 

[RUT]

 

[Robert]

- ARs cost significantly more.

Not so.
http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/?cart=1983810&cat=161&

- ARs are far pickier about ammo than a Mini-14. Yes I can shoot Wolf, Brown Bear, and the more expensive brass stuff as well.

Buddy of mine shoots brown bear at matches in his AR...

- The Mini-14 has an action based on the M1 Garand (a very proven action)

And the AR action is a new and unproven system? I am confused.

- Mini-14s are definitely more durable with the ARs plastic construction.

Care to cite any massive failures with the "plastic" construction? Have any kind of data or papers to support that claim?

- Mini-14s can be cleaned and oiled with anything, ARs users fuss over lubricants and solvents

I know several competitors that use 5w30 to lube their AR... guess they are picky...

Mini-14 are gas piston while ARs are the dirtier DI variety, after I fire 100 rounds in my Mini the bolt and bolt carrier are still clean.

I have seen rifles that have had hundreds of rounds fired through them in a short amount of time with no adverse reaction due to the DI system. But then again cleaning my weapon takes so much time, I can't be bothered with that.

AR folks feel the need to justify their purchase by bashing other peoples rifles.

Got a link to a thread or remark that this is the basis of?

Another thing, I love how the AR community is pimping the gas piston as some new revalation.

Not new at all to the overall world of firearms but in the world of AR it is new. Though I personally do not know anyone who has one.

I do not own an AR, in fact I own a Mini 14 and love to shoot it. But the two are very different weapons. Anyway I'd take my FAL over either any day.

 

[stchman]

I have friends with ARs that won't shoot Wolf or Brown Bear because the rifle jams.

I am going by what the AR folks say.

I have other friends that shoot Minis and they shoot whatever ammo they can find.

 

[Justin]

The weapon that has been world renowned over the globe has been the AK-47.

Colonel David Hackworth (RIP) said that the AK-47 is the weapon the US troops should be using in Vietnam not an M-16.

While the M-16 is a far more accurate rifle than an AK-47 it is definitely chosen over the M-16 the world over.

I can see this thread is going to get way of topic.

I thought this conversation was about the merits of the Mini-14 vs. the AR-15? What does the AK have to do with this discussion?

 

[Robert]

So wait now this is an AR AK thing? Just because something is mass- produced and forced on a country by a totalitarian regime does not make it the greatest all time weapon. Just makes it fielded by more poor conscripts than any other weapon.

 

[stchman]

Hey Gus, the link you sent me was for scratch and dent used ARs.

They also have NO WARRANTY.

Lets compare apples to apples please when talking price.

I see there is no rear sight either. I wonder if it even includes a magazine?

For $100 more you get a NEW rifle, Ruger's lifetime warranty, and excellent customer service. Well worth it IMO.

 

[benzy2]

Low end ARs start at $600. I had one and it had one malfunction ever, tossed the mag out for a newer one, and never a hiccup after. I have bought a nicer AR and it has yet to malfunction. Both saw plenty of steel cased ammo as well as brass, handloads and factory, and only one magazine related issue once. People are playing with the gas piston AR, but people are playing with everything AR. I rather the DI as it seems an easier system to make accurate than a piston system. They both have ups and downs and it all depends on what you want from a rifle. With the care mine get DI works just fine. I don't know what the Garand action matters here. Both actions have shown they work and hold up. As for the plastic, are you kidding? The grip handle, the butt stock, and some front handguards are plastic. None of this matters to reliability and I seem to recall a few plastic stocked Mini14s as well. They are just as likely to break from being plastic as the AR. I have never had any issues cleaning or oiling my AR with stuff Walmart or the local shop sell. As I said only one malfunction ever between my two.

The only two issues I have with the Mini are the magazines and that accuracy has been hit or miss over the years. I don't expect it to hold 1/2 MOA but it should hold 2" at 100 yards with a scope and decent ammo from a bench. I have heard a lot of people complain they can't hit a pie plate at 100 yards with a Mini. I know some say the newer rifles are more accurate but I haven't seen any wide spread use results making it sound like more than the occasional rifle getting these better groups. Its cool if thats what you like and it makes you happy, but no need to piss in my cereal about how awful my AR is in comparison. Which wasn't that one of your complaints about AR owners? Hmm

 

[Justin]

Stchman, would you care to address any of my rebuttals to your post above? (Well, other than that you have a couple of friends who own AR's that are finnicky.)

 

[Robert]

ARs cost significantly more.

That was all you said. You said nothing about NIB so I went with the rifle that I would be able to afford. No rear sight does not bother me, I have friend with a box full of them. I know a guy with dozens of boxes of AR mags, so again not a problem, if I wanted to go this route. Sorry if the fact that an AR can be had for less than $1000 is upsetting but they are not that hard to find for less than $1200, with a rear sight.

 

[Mags]

Look at these Del-Ton rifles. I used a DTI upper reciever kit for my rifle and while people knock DTI I can shoot my rifle accurately out to 500 hundred yards with nothing more than an Aimpoint CompM2. I live in the dusty desert and my rifle has never failed me. As for the AK guys who claim more countries miltary use the AK why don't you look at the countries issuing the AK. They are all third world countries.

 

[Mags]

By the way I haven't seen in person a NIB mini for less than 800 around here.

 

[JimmAr]

Ar wins.. with a simple lower you can have just about any caliber they make that will fit in a 223/556 mag..

Mini is a horrible rifle extremely inaccurate and getting one accurized to anywhere near a quality ar costs 1000's hitting what your aiming at is the biggest battle.. if your shooting at a barn door from 5 yards.. ya mini-14 is awesome.

 

[Justin]

Ar wins.. with a simple lower you can have just about any caliber they make that will fit in a 223/556 mag..

If the AR15 were a computer operating system, it would be Linux. You can mod them to do anything you want.

 

[Shung]

too many words.. not enough pictures.. (I am not a mini huge fan as you see.. Unless I need to watch the A-team )

 

[stchman]

To Justin:

In Vietnam soldiers complained of the M-16s butt stock busting off when they had to go into close quarters.

You are quoting what others do to defend your position, how come I cannot?

The M1 Garand first saw service in 1936 and is still in use in various countries all over the world in some form. The M-16 first saw service in 1964.

I have shot friends ARs and found them to be no more accurate than my Mini.

I also love the AR folks that say they shoot 2" groups at 250 yards with iron sights.